Poor Transformers fiction killing interest in the brand?

[andersonh1]

I was thinking about this the other day. It was the quality of the Beast Wars tv show that got me back into collecting. I used to look forward to that show every week, and then to Beast Machines. I couldn't wait for Dreamwave comics every month, and while some of that is due to simply not having any TF fiction to speak of for a long time, I genuinely enjoyed it. And all along the way I was buying figures of characters that I preferred over others, and participating in online fandom, and making my own photocomics.

Fast forward to the present day, and my enthusiasm is at a low ebb. I'm buying one TF comic out of habit, though I enjoy the odd issue here and there. I still buy the occasional figure, and I still post here and elsewhere, mainly TFW2005, but not as much as I did.

Does my lack of enjoyment of the fiction these days have a lot to do with this? Did I just spend my time in the hobby, get my enjoyment out of it, and move on to other things? What do all of you think? What's the connection between how much you enjoy the fiction being produced at any given moment, and how many figures you buy? Is there a connection for you, or is that just me?

Any thoughts?

[Shockwave]

For me, collecting and production of fiction aren't necessarily tied together. I've been buying Star Wars toys for about the last 10 years but have hardly been interested in the fiction produced (I didn't watch Clone Wars when it was on and what I have seen was just a few arcs on Netflix). For a while I was collecting the current MOTU Classics line, in spite of there not being any current fiction being produced (the comic has only been going for about a year). So for me, collecting is more a matter of toys I want being produced. For fiction, it depends. Some properties, like Transformers, I can get enjoyment out of any of it, even the bad stuff. Others, like Star Wars, I'll pick and choose, watching some stuff and ignoring others. So far, I have yet to have a phase where my interest in TF has waned. I'm still enjoying all of the comics, the current RID cartoon and most of the current toys.

[Onslaught Six]

I dunno. I mean, how good was the fiction for the ArmEnerTron years, when I was arguably more engaged than i am now? It was probably a lot worse than it was now; those cartoons are borderline unwatchable, and the comics weren't much better. (Lots of people heaped praise on Dreamwave but I think a lot of that was the fact that it was the only "G1" oriented fiction being produced at the time, and there was a lot of buzz and excitement. In retrospect the books were only around maybe 3 years tops and they didn't do much at all. I never liked much of what I read from them.) The toys are arguably the best they've ever been (these are certainly, bar none, the best traditional combiners released since G1) and the character selection is unpredecented.

I think Hasbro has it right when they talk about their multiple approaches--yeah, the cartoon might not be something that interests a lot of us, but then again, is it really "for" us in the first place? I mean, there are even multiple generations of "adult" fans at this point--I'm 26, RID was the last toyline that I consider I experienced as a "child" where I was the target audience for the brand; Armada seemed childish to me and I was largely buying the line with my "own" money, even if most of that was earned through chores, allowance or birthday/Christmas money. (I ended up using "birthday present" slots to get reissues, of all things! I wish I hadn't now, especially since I sold all of them, but how was I going to know Classics and Generations would endure?) At my age though, I have just as much "nostalgia" for G1 and its characters as someone of you guys' age who was an adult while Beast Wars was airing.

I dunno. I'm less engaged than when I was when I was, say, 16 in 2005, writing expansive fanfiction that was "Universe but done better," but I would argue just as much that it's a broadening and rounding of interests. In 2005 I had largely abandoned video games (I returned in 2010 when I bought my Xbox 360 and started putting my retro collections back together), was only beginning to listen to music (let alone create my own, which is a HUGE part of my life now), I was back out of pro wrestling (I got back in in 2014), the Marvel Cinematic Universe wasn't a thing, and I hadn't entered my real interest in movies yet, plus Netflix wasn't a thing and Youtube was in its infancy. And that's not even talking about GI Joe. This is an across the board thing; there is a TON of great stuff available today, from new shit to old shit that's re-available, and it's almost impossible to be as 100% engaged as some of us once were almost a decade and a half ago.

[andersonh1]

I shouldn't call the fiction poor. Maybe "unengaging" or "uninspiring" would be more accurate. And even that's not universally true. I know JT really enjoys MTMTE every month, so it's working for him. But is anyone excited about the current animated series?

And yeah, I'm certainly into quite a few things, hobby-wise, that I wasn't interested in five years ago, or ten. There are only so many hours in a day, and only so much hobby money to go around, so something has to give. All of that is a given. But if the fiction was still firing on all cylinders for me, I think I'd be a lot more enthused. Still, nothing lasts forever, including interest in a given hobby, that's for sure.

[Dominic]

No question, media pushes my interest.

I started with the toys. But, I focused more on the comics and cartoons as I got older. (There were plenty of characters that I liked that I never wanted toys for because the toys did not look like the characters I liked.)

The closest I came to getting out of TF (toys in general actually) was '01. "Robots in Disguise" was the only new TF media (aside from 3H BotCon comics). I considered looking in to getting UK comics. But, those were rare (and often expensive) finds. (I had been using UK comics to boost my collection and as a source of a "new" content when there were no new episodes since 1999.)

RiD was terrible. End of story. There were some interesting toys, and I bought them. But, my interest was much diminished. (At the time, I was drifting heavily in to Game Workshop.)

I dunno. I mean, how good was the fiction for the ArmEnerTron years, when I was arguably more engaged than i am now? It was probably a lot worse than it was now; those cartoons are borderline unwatchable, and the comics weren't much better. (

I disagree about the comics. Dreamwave's "Armada" comics were actually good. They were standard long form comics, maybe a few years behind the industry. (At the time, I was largely out of comics, and the big two were shaking off a 90s hang-over. So, it did not much bother me.) I actually tried to avoid the "Armada" comics, but could not stay away. They made the cut.

The toys are arguably the best they've ever been (these are certainly, bar none, the best traditional combiners released since G1) and the character selection is unpredecented.

No. The painting, sculpting and engineering have all declined. (Devastator is not the only example of poor execution of lazy design.)


My interest in TF was largely supported by interest in other stuff from '02 to '08 or so. "Transformers" tended to turn up in the same place as "Star Wars" or "GI Joe". (Note that my interest in the beast era bottomed out in '06, following Furman's BW series and several years of BotCon comics.)

Now? My interest in TF is much diminished.

The last time that the property has managed to consistently impress me was 2010. The comics were *good*. They did not read like generic comics. It was a linear story. The toys were also good. There were comic-accurate figures (Drift, Sunstreaker, Prowl) and ambitious efforts like "Power Core Combiners" (which were crowded out by other TF products).

The worst problem in 2010 was distribution. And, there was still plenty to look for, even for people who were mostly in for toys.


Now, the property has not impressed me on any level for ~2 years. Some of it is that my standards have gone up. Some of it is that Hasbro's standards have gone down. And, some of it is that there are other things I need to worry about. Even relative to comics and toys, there are other options.

Right now, Marvel is dominating my toys and comics purchases. But, my standards being higher limits that. (There are Marvel figures that I am skipping because they are not good enough. And, others that are only good enough because they are based on characters/runs that I specifically like.)


"Transformers" needs a shot in the arm. Much like 15 years ago, my biggest interest in the property is the old UK comics. And, unlike 15 years ago (when I was barely reading comics in general), I am not hurrying to read those UK comics.

[Onslaught Six]

RiD was terrible. End of story.

I'll never understand this opinion. It may not be an amazing show, but it's small scale in a way that's really enjoyable and I like its comedy elements, because it's clearly a parody of Japanese TF and all its ridiculous tropes.

I disagree about the comics. Dreamwave's "Armada" comics were actually good. They were standard long form comics, maybe a few years behind the industry. (At the time, I was largely out of comics, and the big two were shaking off a 90s hang-over. So, it did not much bother me.) I actually tried to avoid the "Armada" comics, but could not stay away. They made the cut.

Armada is a different beast altogether; its comics were clearly superior to the cartoon, and better than the G1 comics. But nobody remembers those, because they aren't G1, and Armada sucked a big fat one in every other category that didn't have the word "Minicon."

No. The painting, sculpting and engineering have all declined. (Devastator is not the only example of poor execution of lazy design.)

Declined from what standard? I've been buying lots of old stuff, if you haven't noticed, so I have a big perspective on stuff from all eras recently. The toyline has ebbed and flowed in massive ways throughout. Armada is a step down from RID in massive ways but the line built itself back up during Energon and Cybertron; Classics toys are no more or less simple than Combiner Wars are, and are of an equal size. (My Generations Arcee is larger than Classics Rodimus. Think about that.) Hell, Bumblebee is way smaller than most Deluxes (and had to have a doofy water ski boat or whatever to make up for it).

Devastator aside (who I don't own yet and have no solid opinion on), I own 3 of the 4 major combiners of the line, and I think they're all great. They're the best traditional combiners we've gotten since the originals, period.

The toys were also good. There were comic-accurate figures (Drift, Sunstreaker, Prowl)

It's funny, because none of those are actually "comic accurate!" Drift never had an Earth altmode (you can debate how much that matters) but even many of his robot details don't match up; Sunstreaker and Prowl were only ever "comic accurate" in that AHM and beyond used their existing Universe toys; and then that went out the window when the RID/MTMTE refocus came. If anyone is comic accurate, it's the stuff from 2013 like Springer, Swerve, Brainstorm, Skids, Chromia.

[Dominic]

I'll never understand this opinion. It may not be an amazing show, but it's small scale in a way that's really enjoyable and I like its comedy elements, because it's clearly a parody of Japanese TF and all its ridiculous tropes.

It is an in-house parody, dragged out over a year. It required people to know, and care, about the Japanese stuff. I knew about it, and sort of cared. And, that was still not enough. (Good toys. But, a lousy show.)

Armada is a different beast altogether; its comics were clearly superior to the cartoon, and better than the G1 comics. But nobody remembers those, because they aren't G1, and Armada sucked a big fat one in every other category that didn't have the word "Minicon."

Sad thing is that the "Armada" comics were over-all better than the contemporary G1 comics.

The toyline has ebbed and flowed in massive ways throughout. Armada is a step down from RID in massive ways but the line built itself back up during Energon and Cybertron; Classics toys are no more or less simple than Combiner Wars are, and are of an equal size. (My Generations Arcee is larger than Classics Rodimus. Think about that.) Hell, Bumblebee is way smaller than most Deluxes (and had to have a doofy water ski boat or whatever to make up for it).

True, the quality has fluctuated.

But, the drop in quality during the early UT was because Hasbro was focusing on the gimmicks. "Armada" toys were not as polished as late beast-era figures. But, they were, and remain, more distinctive. (This is part of why I still have such a soft spot for Armada. The comics were good, meaning I liked the characters. And, the toys were creatively designed, meaning high fiddle=value.)

The current drop is just Hasbro being lazy.

"Classics" and "Universe" (2006-2011, minus movie lines) are better than post "Dark of the Moon" figures (2012-current). The moulding, the paint, the number of moving parts have all declined. (Sorry, but wrist and ankle articulation matter.) The standard I use is Scoop. Scoop is damned good figure. But, Scoop should not be that good relative to other current figures.

It's funny, because none of those are actually "comic accurate!" Drift never had an Earth altmode (you can debate how much that matters) but even many of his robot details don't match up; Sunstreaker and Prowl were only ever "comic accurate" in that AHM and beyond used their existing Universe toys; and then that went out the window when the RID/MTMTE refocus came. If anyone is comic accurate, it's the stuff from 2013 like Springer, Swerve, Brainstorm, Skids, Chromia.

Drift actually had an Earth mode during the mini-series and the Costa run. Sunstreaker and Prowl speak for themselves. (Pity that Jazz never had a proper IDW toy.)

Swerve is problematic, similar to Trailbreaker and Skids, owing to the toy having an Earth mode.

Springer is too thin.


Of course, (getting back to the original question), if the comics are not good I am not going to want to toys.

[Shockwave]

I shouldn't call the fiction poor. Maybe "unengaging" or "uninspiring" would be more accurate. And even that's not universally true. I know JT really enjoys MTMTE every month, so it's working for him. But is anyone excited about the current animated series?

Actually, yeah, I am. There are several things I keep seeing people say they want from Transformers: New characters, no Optimus or Megatron, no more R2 Bee2, the actual use of the disguise gimmick. This show fires on all of those cylinders and yet I'm the only one here who's actually watching it. I've enjoyed the first season a lot. It's the first show in a long time that I've actually bothered to make sure I watch every week. Prime didn't grab me like that, and Rescue Bots is good but I don't feel quite as engaged on that one and watching has become problematic ever since the deal with Discovery went south.

[Sparky Prime]

I've watched a few episodes of RID 2015, but I can't say that I really enjoyed it all that much. The first couple episodes I thought had promise, setting up this over-arcing story to the first season, but the focus of the season is a simple villain of the week type plot. I didn't really feel the pay off for the over-arcing storyline was satisfying when it came down to it with so few episodes to actually build it up. It's not a bad cartoon, but a villain of the week plot just to simple of a plot line for my taste. That's also a problem I had with the last 2 seasons of the Prime series with it becoming a MacGuffin of the week hunt but at least that still felt like it was going somewhere. Similarly, I feel that Hasbro has made the RID toyline too simple. I get they felt the toys had become overly complicated to transform, but I feel like they've gone too far the other direction here. And so much of the line is multiple versions of the Autobots. Looking at the Takara-Tomy version of the toyline, they've actually supplemented it with toys from Animated and Generations to help fill it out more.

The IDW comics have their ups and downs, but overall I'd have to say I'm enjoying those stories, particularly MTMTE. Hasbro has clearly noticed how much the fans have enjoyed it with toys directly inspired by those comics showing up, as well as Hasbro inserting their own plot ideas into the comics...

[JediTricks]

For me, the centerpiece of the line is the products first, fic way later. Right now, the product lines are scattered and coming out at a slow pace while prices go up, that's tough to care about. The prospects are mixed at best.

The fiction is also scattered, I am still really digging MTMTE but I'm not thrilled with whatever Barber's series is called, and I still haven't bothered reading the last Windblade issue or the last 2 TF v GI Joe. Still, I think IDW is doing a pretty adequate job with the line considering there's a lot of choices for a lot of different tastes.

Screen media is in limbo, I never bothered with RID because it just never grabbed me as a concept, and was a little too out there... it didn't help either that its toy line is awful, I think RID is the first US toyline that wasn't pre-teen-only since G2 that I have no figures from whatosever. The new game looked ok but it's a brawler and short, so I passed.

I guess right now it seems like the brand is holding its breath for fans like me, waiting for something to happen.