TF Views

Lets all discuss Obamacare.

are you for it or against it & Why?

IMHO Below:

I am against obamacare for a few short points below:

1- Imagine just losing your job. barely being able to pay the bills. now you have to shell out money you don't have for obamacare. if not,you pay penalities till you pay.

2- more taxes will be put on the lower & middle class to help fund obamacare.

3- in europe & cuba they offer their citzens free universal health care coverage. is obamacare the best we can do for USA citizens. forcing them to pay when other countries offer it for free.

4- the only ones that prove to benefit from obamacare are the insurance companies. as they'll make more money with people being forced to get obamacare.

5- Companies will no longer feel obligated/mandated to offer it's workers health care coverage. companies now have the option to tell it's employees to get obamacare.

6- It sure seems like obamacare was created to hurt the lower class. as the government is trying to hurt them because they view them as free loaders milking the un-employed health coverage. under obamacare they will get forced to buy obamacare thus eliminating the need for the governemet to give them free medicare/medicaid health care coverage.

Tigermegatron wrote:1- Imagine just losing your job. barely being able to pay the bills. now you have to shell out money you don't have for obamacare. if not,you pay penalities till you pay.

Now have to say I really haven't researched it enough to say if I'm for or against it myself, but I'm going to stop you right there and say there is a lot more to Obamacare than you realize. Part of the shared responsibility (or individual mandate) is that persons with financial hardship can have those penalties waived. Also low income persons and families can receive federal subsidies if they choose to purchase an insurance plan in part of an exchange. And companies will also be able to get subsidies if they purchase an insurance plan for its employees through an exchange.

I have a background in politics, so I kinda feel obligated to weigh in on this.

In concept, I am in favour of giving people more access to health care. But, as with many public sector programs, I have real issues with the execution.

And, in case anybody asks, I am center-left, and not a member of either/any party.

- Imagine just losing your job. barely being able to pay the bills. now you have to shell out money you don't have for obamacare. if not,you pay penalities till you pay.

If you are unemployed, or simply making below a certain amount, you pay nothing.

2- more taxes will be put on the lower & middle class to help fund obamacare.

More taxes are being levied an all classes of people. Public expenditures cost money. If people did not pay for health care through taxes, the burden would be shouldered (at greater individual costs to a smaller number of people) buy hospitals and insurance companies, unless of course we expect/accept the idea of hospitals letting sick and injured people die for being unable to pay for treatment.

3- in europe & cuba they offer their citzens free universal health care coverage. is obamacare the best we can do for USA citizens. forcing them to pay when other countries offer it for free.

Nothing, especially health care, is free. To parphrase Ted DiBiase, everthing's got a price, and everybody who wants it is gonna pay, because the laws of supply and demand always have their way. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money.

People in Europe or Cuba may not pay at the hospital. But, they pay more in those dreadful taxes mentioned above.

4- the only ones that prove to benefit from obamacare are the insurance companies. as they'll make more money with people being forced to get obamacare.

This is, sadly, more true than I would like it to be. Federal/State mandates like this arguably create an oligarchy scenario. Companies that provide mandated, or otherwise necessary, services with no real "opt-out" mechanism have little incentive to do their jobs well. This situation is ripe for collusion and price fixing/gauging.

I support public sector programs in principle. But, in practical terms, they are often cash grabs and boondoggles. Mandated healtch care is, unfortunately, likely to follow that trend.

5- Companies will no longer feel obligated/mandated to offer it's workers health care coverage. companies now have the option to tell it's employees to get obamacare.

This will vary by the type of company, and what their hiring needs are. Remember, Disney felt it was worth their effort to offer insurance benefits to employees non-married significant others (including gay couples) long before it was cool to do so. Why did they do this? Clearly, it was worth their time to do so in order to attract and keep talent.

Of course, companies that hire low-skilled and low-wage employees will have little incentive to offer more benefits.

6- It sure seems like obamacare was created to hurt the lower class. as the government is trying to hurt them because they view them as free loaders milking the un-employed health coverage. under obamacare they will get forced to buy obamacare thus eliminating the need for the governemet to give them free medicare/medicaid health care coverage.

Whaaaaaaaat? One of the reasons for government programs is to calm potentially troublesome populations in the lower class, and ensure their support for officials who call for some programs. If anything, ObamaCare is going to *increase* government expenditures, (which of course or funded through taxation).


Dom
-freedom is slavery!

Dominic wrote:I have a background in politics, so I kinda feel obligated to weigh in on this.

In concept, I am in favour of giving people more access to health care. But, as with many public sector programs, I have real issues with the execution.

And, in case anybody asks, I am center-left, and not a member of either/any party.

- Imagine just losing your job. barely being able to pay the bills. now you have to shell out money you don't have for obamacare. if not,you pay penalities till you pay.

If you are unemployed, or simply making below a certain amount, you pay nothing.

2- more taxes will be put on the lower & middle class to help fund obamacare.

More taxes are being levied an all classes of people. Public expenditures cost money. If people did not pay for health care through taxes, the burden would be shouldered (at greater individual costs to a smaller number of people) buy hospitals and insurance companies, unless of course we expect/accept the idea of hospitals letting sick and injured people die for being unable to pay for treatment.

3- in europe & cuba they offer their citzens free universal health care coverage. is obamacare the best we can do for USA citizens. forcing them to pay when other countries offer it for free.

Nothing, especially health care, is free. To parphrase Ted DiBiase, everthing's got a price, and everybody who wants it is gonna pay, because the laws of supply and demand always have their way. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money.

People in Europe or Cuba may not pay at the hospital. But, they pay more in those dreadful taxes mentioned above.

4- the only ones that prove to benefit from obamacare are the insurance companies. as they'll make more money with people being forced to get obamacare.

This is, sadly, more true than I would like it to be. Federal/State mandates like this arguably create an oligarchy scenario. Companies that provide mandated, or otherwise necessary, services with no real "opt-out" mechanism have little incentive to do their jobs well. This situation is ripe for collusion and price fixing/gauging.

I support public sector programs in principle. But, in practical terms, they are often cash grabs and boondoggles. Mandated healtch care is, unfortunately, likely to follow that trend.

5- Companies will no longer feel obligated/mandated to offer it's workers health care coverage. companies now have the option to tell it's employees to get obamacare.

This will vary by the type of company, and what their hiring needs are. Remember, Disney felt it was worth their effort to offer insurance benefits to employees non-married significant others (including gay couples) long before it was cool to do so. Why did they do this? Clearly, it was worth their time to do so in order to attract and keep talent.

Of course, companies that hire low-skilled and low-wage employees will have little incentive to offer more benefits.

6- It sure seems like obamacare was created to hurt the lower class. as the government is trying to hurt them because they view them as free loaders milking the un-employed health coverage. under obamacare they will get forced to buy obamacare thus eliminating the need for the governemet to give them free medicare/medicaid health care coverage.

Whaaaaaaaat? One of the reasons for government programs is to calm potentially troublesome populations in the lower class, and ensure their support for officials who call for some programs. If anything, ObamaCare is going to *increase* government expenditures, (which of course or funded through taxation).


Dom
-freedom is slavery!

1- obamacare's prime directive was to get rid of free coverage for the un-employed & lower class people. by forcing them to pay for health care covervage called obamacare. if your being forced to buy obamacare,then by default you no longer qualify/need free medicare/medicaid health care coverage.

2- I don't trust the goverment/state in the deciding who pays for obama care & who gets obamacare for free. in the beginning they'll be more lenient. then (extremly quickly) as time passes they'll get more strick. I can see this getting natsy as far as racial profiling goes,gay rights goes,age profiling, health profiling,income profiling,if your over 18 & live with your parents profiling. credit profiling,property profiling,car profiling. family & their kids profiling goes. clothes profiling goes. health profiling goes. job & accidents all the workers on the company job profiling goes.

2a- honestly in time,the only ones who won't have to pay for obamacare & will qualify. will be ONLY single parent/mom with kids & a low paying job.

2b,if your 18 years old,going to college,still live with your parents or at the college dorm. then you'll be considered doing extremly well. by having everything paid for you by your parents or Scholarships. so you'll be a prime candidate in being forced to pay for obamacare.

2c- If your a 25+year old male. that is divorced/not married,no kids,living at home with parents/friends/siblins. just got fired from your job. then you'll be a prime candiate to being forced to pay for obamacare.

3- If you have a meduim to high paying job. and feel that you are healty enough to save a few bucks for the year. by deciding to cancel your health care coverage for a few months/year because you want to use that money to save up for a DVD player,clothes,sneakers,used car. then you'll be forced to pay for obamacare. as workers will no longer have the choice to do without health care coverage for extended periods of time.

4- Obamacare was created to de-regulate health care coverage. & punish the lower class as their the most affected group. nothing positive can come from obamacare.

5- for those who qualify for free obamacare. I highly doubt obamacare will be as strong as medicare/medicaid was.

6- as far as de-regulation goes. in time. I can see employers refusing to covers spouses under the companies health care coverage plans. job health care coverage will only be for the worker & his kids. the wife/spouse will be forced to pay for obamacare to get her/his health care coverage.

2b,if your 18 years old,going to college,still live with your parents or at the college dorm. then you'll be considered doing extremly well. by having everything paid for you by your parents or Scholarships. so you'll be a prime candidate in being forced to pay for obamacare.

Except one of the first things the act did was make it so anyone under 26 can be covered by their parents' insurance. (This has actually led to a messed up situation where my girlfriend is unable to get any kind of coverage for birth control, since she's under 26.)

Anyway, read this:
http://abaldwin360.tumblr.com/post/2550 ... -it-change

I'm not sure I want to discuss politics on this board, since my Transformers hobby is escapism to get away from the real world, but I'll bite...

I'm completely against Obamacare. It's a nightmare of regulation and mandates that will drive costs up and put our health decisions in the hands of some government official that we didn't vote for and cannot influence. It will not reduce costs. It will cost us trillions of dollars we don't have as a country. It reduces our freedom to choose whether or not to have insurance. Some people don't want it... I certainly didn't when I was in college. Some people self-insure and don't want insurance. Guess what... they no longer have the freedom to take that option, or they won't when the law fully goes into effect, which will happen by 2014.

It's been sold by promising "healthcare for all". The first thing we learn in high school economics is that "there is no such thing as a free lunch". Someone somewhere will pay for this "free" coverage. If our country wasn't 16 trillion in debt, and if we didn't have any other welfare/safety net programs, we might be able to afford it. We can't. This law is an unmitigated disaster.

I was promised by the president that "if I like my current health insurance and doctor I can keep them", and "no one making under $250,000 a year will see one dime in higher taxes". Guess what... my taxes will go up with this law, and my health coverage at work has ALREADY become more expensive, and I have to jump through more hoops to keep it. Costs have not gone down, and I expect it's only going to get worse as more regulations and requirements go into effect.

Onslaught Six wrote:Anyway, read this:
http://abaldwin360.tumblr.com/post/2550 ... -it-change

That link is very one-sided. I notice they don't mention how Medicare is cut drastically and the states are supposed to pick up the slack, which many states simply cannot afford. It doesn't mention that over 70% of the taxes/fees hit the middle and lower class.

Just to give a small part of the other side, a list of all the Obamacare tax hikes, from my representative.
http://jeffduncan.house.gov/full-list-o ... -tax-hikes

And then there's this, which is far less pie in the sky than O6's link:
http://www.investorsinsight.com/blogs/j ... acare.aspx

Whatever. I'm unemployed right now, so it doesn't matter either way, and if I don't have a job with good benefits by 2014 then I'm pretty much a failure as a human being!

This certainly can't be good.

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/cato-stu ... ess-reach/

When the unelected government officials on this board submit a legislative proposal to Congress, it automatically becomes law: PPACA requires the Secretary of Health and Human Services to implement it. Blocking an IPAB “proposal” requires at a minimum that the House and the Senate and the president agree on a substitute. The Board’s edicts therefore can become law without congressional action, congressional approval, meaningful congressional oversight, or being subject to a presidential veto. Citizens will have no power to challenge IPAB’s edicts in court.

Worse, PPACA forbids Congress from repealing IPAB outside of a seven-month window in the year 2017, and even then requires a three-fifths majority in both chambers…

IPAB’s unelected members will have effectively unfettered power to impose taxes and ration care for all Americans, whether the government pays their medical bills or not. In some circumstances, just one political party or even one individual would have full command of IPAB’s lawmaking powers. IPAB truly is independent, but in the worst sense of the word. It wields power independent of Congress, independent of the president, independent of the judiciary, and independent of the will of the people.

The creation of IPAB is an admission that the federal government’s efforts to plan America’s health care sector have failed. It is proof of the axiom that government control of the economy threatens democracy.

Sounds like dictatorship by committee to me.

So... there's going to be an autonomous government agency that answers to no one and basically has the government by the balls in charge of public health care? Yeah, this'll work out great.

Shockwave
-In a post apocolyptic fututre....