TF Views

Should some of the BLAME come off Hasbro/Takara & on the Economy? Regarding the new TF toys.

Perhaps the downward spiral economy plays a much bigger role is hasbro's TF brand decision making than anyone realizes it does.

Food for thought,voice your opinion on this thread subject matter. If you agree or disagree please offer up some decent examples to garner decent discussion on this matter.

Here's some of my Examples to help some better understand this thread of mine.

1- Hasbro's/Takara's down sizing of the Masterpiece TF toy line from 12 inch figures then to 9 inches robot modes now to even smaller MP Sideswipe toy.

2- Hasbro Choosing to releasing the Mech tech styled weapons & not the microns for the TF Prime toy line.

3- Generations only being a deluxe & smaller scale/price TF toy line.

4- The DOTM movie verse toy line being such a short & smaller TF toy line compared to the two previous movie verse TF toy lines.

5- Bumblebee dominating almost all the TF toy sizes & being over stocked in the the case wave assortment boxes.

6- early cancellation of recent (RTS,PCC,DOTM,TRILOGY) TF toy lines & cancelled TF toys in america.

7- Not enough G-1 homages new toys in ALL the recent TF toy lines.

Hasbro makes its own decisions. The economy might limit options, but Hasbro still makes the decision.

Hasbro made the decision to invest in tooling for a wave's worth of figures that they cancelled after one production run, which makes it pretty difficult for them to recoup the cost of the tooling, let alone make a profit. Hasbro has been half-assing distribution for about a year and a half now. Hasbro discontinued the Scout price-point. Hasbro is doing a bad job of distributing Legends/Legion figures. Hasbro dropped the ball and kicked it away with movie figures.


Dom
-gonna have to blame Hasbro.

Dominic wrote: Hasbro discontinued the Scout price-point.

Hasbro keeps re-naming the TF toy sizes.

Before scout's they were called Basics.

Now instead of scouts their being called "Commanders".

Hasbro recently for the TF Prime toy line re-named almost all the TF toy sizes.

Any newer TF toy sizes that are similar to older size classes,that are different prices. received those higher prices due to the economy & the rising gasoline/oil prices.

Tigermegatron wrote:Now instead of scouts their being called "Commanders".

Technically Commanders are a new size class that's just a touch smaller and simpler than Basics were. I like a fair few of the Commanders, but proper Basics were there own thing, and tended to be pretty cool (ROTF has some terrific Basics. Remember Skystalker and Depth Charge and Breacher? Great stuff. You'd never see something like Breacher at the Commander class).

You know what would make Legends/Cyberverse work a lot better? If more of them had turning heads. That's a very underrated articulation point, it hurts the toy more than you'd think when it's cut out.

Hasbro recently for the TF Prime toy line re-named almost all the TF toy sizes.

Man, tell me about it. I'm still not sure what the Voyagers are called now (at first I thought they were 'Weaponizers', but those are apparently the new smaller-than-leader-but-bigger-than-voyager size class. Then I heard they were still Voyagers, but now I'm hearing they're called Energizers or some shit). The fact that the current TFPrime line itself is an all-encompassing subline called 'Robots in Disguise' does not help matters.

Could be worse though. Remember back in Armada when Hasbro tried to completely rename all the size classes with that inane "-con" stuff that wasn't indicative of each size at all? I remember "Supercon" was the new name for Deluxes, but after that I'd be damned if I could tell you which ones stuff like "Maxcon", "Gigacon", and "Ultracon" (was there an "Ultracon"?) corresponded to.

Part of me kind of wishes things could be handled more like G1 was, in terms of playing fast and loose with dedicated size classes. This way we could see toys released in more 'particular' sizes and designs, rather than having to be scaled up stupidly (think Animated Bumblebee) or having cool features or the like cut because their size class would only allow so much.

Tigermegatron wrote:7- Not enough G-1 homages new toys in ALL the recent TF toy lines.

Not quite sure what this one would have to do with the economy, unless you're implying it costs more money for Hasbro to color Movie Ironhide red or make TFPrime Wheeljack just look like a sleeker G1 Wheeljack. I also disagree that there haven't been 'enough' G1-homage toys coming out. Generations ran simultaneously with the gold-box Movie stuff, until that became RTS and started having Generations-style figures NEXT TO the actual Generations toys. Then Generations even continued along and had Wheeljack, Thundercracker, Warpath, Black Shadow, and Junkheap on shelves next to the DOTM stuff. And now Generations is coming back later this year. There's plenty of G1 to go around.

1- Hasbro's/Takara's down sizing of the Masterpiece TF toy line from 12 inch figures then to 9 inches robot modes now to even smaller MP Sideswipe toy.

Not sure about the Starscream and Prime, but I'd think Sideswipe's smaller because, uh, the character's supposed to be smaller than those other characters.

Also, not sure how economic woes affecting Hasbro would concern the Masterpiece line, I'm pretty sure those are all Takara's doing, Hasbro just imports 'em sometimes. Not that Japan's economy (and TF over there) is doing any better, mind, I just thought I'd point out that Hasbro likely has little to do with this one.

Is it wrong that I think Kiss Players might actually have worked and helped TF the way it was supposed to in Japan had it been more cute and innocent and less weird and creepy?

I certainly think TM has a point here, I think the economy has been affecting product and Hasbro's decisions for years now. People are buying less toys and therefore profits are down and they need to make up the difference by gimping features and skimping on paint and scaling toys down. I mean we've seen this a lot since back in 09 with the ROTF line having a lot of the gimmicks removed from their toys, then Universe Galvatron got scaled down from Voyager or Ultra or whatever he was supposed to be into the deluxe size and I've heard a lot of reports on here about missing paint and gimmicks from the DOTM and Prime lines as well. And it seems more rampant now than before. So yeah, I definitely think the economy is to blame for some of what goes on and is certainly influencing the decisions at Hasbro.

BWprowl wrote: Also, not sure how economic woes affecting Hasbro would concern the Masterpiece line, I'm pretty sure those are all Takara's doing, Hasbro just imports 'em sometimes. Not that Japan's economy (and TF over there) is doing any better, mind, I just thought I'd point out that Hasbro likely has little to do with this one.

Because after a TF toy gets made. it needs to sell decent enough to justify the spending cost creating it.

Takara caters more to hasbro's needs than anyone realizes. because hasbro gets more profits out of the TF toys than takara does. Hasbro sells TF toys to 75% of the world. while Takara sells their TF toys to only 15% of the world.

Hasbro has a extremly hard time trying to convince their retailers to carry the MP TF toys. due to price & the shelf space these huge MP TF toys take up.

Their is no doubt in my mind Takara keeps reducing the MP TF toy size because Hasbro keeps begging them to do this. if the MP TF toy is too big & exspensive fort hasbro to try to sell,they won't sell it to their retailers or offer it as a extremly low volume unit store exclusive.

Clearly the economy is affecting hasbro TF toy buying customers spending decisions. hasbro'S Global customers are buying less,buying cheaper priced items. saving the higher price/bigger stuff for special occassions like christamas & so forth.

Even if the economic issues were the sole source of the problem, Hasbro is still to blame for not better managing the brand to cope with that problem. They have tremendously bungled the launch of a line they're supposed to be treating as a market flagship, they lowered the quality of their mainline for a big media event (DOTM) to the point of being a poor ambassador for the brand, they have lost sight of their pricepoints (you either shrink product to meet the pricepoint OR you raise your pricepoint, doing both at once is a blunder), they've sacrificed part of their brand's shelf real estate for a dubious "figure/game piece" crossover line, and they've grossly mismanaged significant tooling investments by trying to thin out the release schedule too far thus killing off a number of new molds (which forces TakaraTomy to pick up the slack on those molds, or the TF brand eats those losses from their budget with no hope of return). That's ineptitude on Hasbro's part, whether or not its all reacting to economic factors.

Hasbro has weathered storms before, its their JOB to ensure they don't fold up just because there's outside forces affecting their business, it just seems right now like something in the process isn't doing that job as well as it should be.

BWprowl wrote:

Tigermegatron wrote:Now instead of scouts their being called "Commanders".

Technically Commanders are a new size class that's just a touch smaller and simpler than Basics were. I like a fair few of the Commanders, but proper Basics were there own thing, and tended to be pretty cool (ROTF has some terrific Basics. Remember Skystalker and Depth Charge and Breacher? Great stuff. You'd never see something like Breacher at the Commander class).

Commanders are smaller than Basics yet cost about twice as much, leaving Legion as the ambassador for the vital kid-friendly TF pricepoint. Technically, I think Basics has been replaced entirely by Cyberverse in general, with Legion being "Basics for kids" and Commanders being "Basics for collectors".

Man, tell me about it. I'm still not sure what the Voyagers are called now (at first I thought they were 'Weaponizers', but those are apparently the new smaller-than-leader-but-bigger-than-voyager size class. Then I heard they were still Voyagers, but now I'm hearing they're called Energizers or some shit). The fact that the current TFPrime line itself is an all-encompassing subline called 'Robots in Disguise' does not help matters.

Could be worse though. Remember back in Armada when Hasbro tried to completely rename all the size classes with that inane "-con" stuff that wasn't indicative of each size at all? I remember "Supercon" was the new name for Deluxes, but after that I'd be damned if I could tell you which ones stuff like "Maxcon", "Gigacon", and "Ultracon" (was there an "Ultracon"?) corresponded to.

Internally, I believe they're still Deluxe and Voyager, but shelf tags and packaging are all very confusing on the public names.

Heh heh, yeah, I had totally forgotten about that Supercon bullcrap, that was really annoying stuff.

Part of me kind of wishes things could be handled more like G1 was, in terms of playing fast and loose with dedicated size classes. This way we could see toys released in more 'particular' sizes and designs, rather than having to be scaled up stupidly (think Animated Bumblebee) or having cool features or the like cut because their size class would only allow so much.

It's unfortunately not possible on a mass-retail business model anymore because the brand doesn't stand alone, the brand has to have a consistent, plannable presence for retailers across an entire year because shelf real estate is so tight on the aisle now where it wasn't before. It is too bad though that they can't break out of what essentially is now 2 sizes and then some ancillary sizes with Cyberverse and the occasional bigger stuff.

Not sure about the Starscream and Prime, but I'd think Sideswipe's smaller because, uh, the character's supposed to be smaller than those other characters.

Scaled to MP-1 or MP-10 though? IMO, they're pushing their damned luck with these ultra-expensive figures getting so small. I just saw a buddy's MP-10 New Optimus and it's an excellent piece all around, but it doesn't feel quite Masterpiece in size, and then it's $250!!! which is an utterly unfathomable price compared to MP-1 or Hybrid THS-02 Prime (who is a more comparable set since it's fairly similar to MP-10 in most ways 33% the except size).

Also, not sure how economic woes affecting Hasbro would concern the Masterpiece line, I'm pretty sure those are all Takara's doing, Hasbro just imports 'em sometimes. Not that Japan's economy (and TF over there) is doing any better, mind, I just thought I'd point out that Hasbro likely has little to do with this one.

Hasbro carries half the cost of developing the molds, I believe, so when something like MP Megatron doesn't ship to the states, it comes out of Hasbro's TF budget with no return.

Is it wrong that I think Kiss Players might actually have worked and helped TF the way it was supposed to in Japan had it been more cute and innocent and less weird and creepy?

Looking at your sig? No.

JediTricks wrote:Commanders are smaller than Basics yet cost about twice as much, leaving Legion as the ambassador for the vital kid-friendly TF pricepoint.

Dear god, how much do Commanders cost in your area? They're like eight bucks over here, which puts them *maybe* a dollar over what Basics cost, and that's not even accounting for the price increases across the board. $14 Commanders? No wonder you're bitter towards that size class.

Technically, I think Basics has been replaced entirely by Cyberverse in general, with Legion being "Basics for kids" and Commanders being "Basics for collectors".

I was under the impression that the two size classes were supposed to work together as one scale, with the Commander size being reserved for larger characters who merited it. That way you can still have characteristic size differences among the cast, instead of Optimus Prime, Bumblebee, and Ironhide all being the same height, with varying levels of detail to compensate for how much each one was scaled down.

Scaled to MP-1 or MP-10 though? IMO, they're pushing their damned luck with these ultra-expensive figures getting so small. I just saw a buddy's MP-10 New Optimus and it's an excellent piece all around, but it doesn't feel quite Masterpiece in size, and then it's $250!!! which is an utterly unfathomable price compared to MP-1 or Hybrid THS-02 Prime (who is a more comparable set since it's fairly similar to MP-10 in most ways 33% the except size).

Eh, Takara always cranks up the prices on the Masterpieces they release (using the price increase to encompass things like the amount of paint used on there versions, not to mention the packaging). Also remember that their economy's been hit pretty hard compared to back when MP-01 came out, 1 yen is only worth about 80 US cents currently (and that's a step up from just a few months ago!).

Hasbro carries half the cost of developing the molds, I believe, so when something like MP Megatron doesn't ship to the states, it comes out of Hasbro's TF budget with no return.

Damn, I was not aware of that. That's a burn.

Is it wrong that I think Kiss Players might actually have worked and helped TF the way it was supposed to in Japan had it been more cute and innocent and less weird and creepy?

Looking at your sig? No.

Well obviously, it might not have been towards me personally (I bought that KT Collection Ai figure. Hell, I still want Kiss Convoy and BTA Alert), I just meant, like, in general. Honestly, now that the moe bubble's really grown out of proportion in Japan, now might be the time to try again!



"Soundwave-kun, am I cute, uguu~?"

BWprowl wrote:

JediTricks wrote:Commanders are smaller than Basics yet cost about twice as much, leaving Legion as the ambassador for the vital kid-friendly TF pricepoint.

Dear god, how much do Commanders cost in your area? They're like eight bucks over here, which puts them *maybe* a dollar over what Basics cost, and that's not even accounting for the price increases across the board. $14 Commanders? No wonder you're bitter towards that size class.

Target has 'em for $10, TRU has the DVD ones for $12 and the non-DVD ones for $10.

Technically, I think Basics has been replaced entirely by Cyberverse in general, with Legion being "Basics for kids" and Commanders being "Basics for collectors".

I was under the impression that the two size classes were supposed to work together as one scale, with the Commander size being reserved for larger characters who merited it. That way you can still have characteristic size differences among the cast, instead of Optimus Prime, Bumblebee, and Ironhide all being the same height, with varying levels of detail to compensate for how much each one was scaled down.

Not at all. Legion is a throwback to the low-cost Legends scale that was created for non-toy-retailers to have a Transformers presence, like CVS Drug Stores. Cyberverse was created years later basically to act as a "Star Wars figures" type of expression, 4-inch collectible TF toys that can be displayed a la collectors' Star Wars figures (the idea was from one of the guys who went from SW team to TF team, at least according to Hasbro's SDCC '10 panel, or maybe it was their Botcon '11 panel). Basically they're just Cyberverse because they're both "basic" sized and priced.

Scaled to MP-1 or MP-10 though? IMO, they're pushing their damned luck with these ultra-expensive figures getting so small. I just saw a buddy's MP-10 New Optimus and it's an excellent piece all around, but it doesn't feel quite Masterpiece in size, and then it's $250!!! which is an utterly unfathomable price compared to MP-1 or Hybrid THS-02 Prime (who is a more comparable set since it's fairly similar to MP-10 in most ways 33% the except size).

Eh, Takara always cranks up the prices on the Masterpieces they release (using the price increase to encompass things like the amount of paint used on there versions, not to mention the packaging). Also remember that their economy's been hit pretty hard compared to back when MP-01 came out, 1 yen is only worth about 80 US cents currently (and that's a step up from just a few months ago!).

Yeah, but there's not a lot of chance Hasbro's going to be bringing us a set like MP-10, so that's the price. (I'm trying to use "MP-1" instead of "MP-01" so as not to accidentally type "MP-10" in its place, if you're wondering.)

Hasbro carries half the cost of developing the molds, I believe, so when something like MP Megatron doesn't ship to the states, it comes out of Hasbro's TF budget with no return.

Damn, I was not aware of that. That's a burn.

Yup, development costs are where the sting is really felt first. I can't imagine how much loss Hasbro is taking on DOTM Soundwaves and the movie trilogy line and on the rest of the FE line they originally planned to bring in, but we'll likely be feeling that hit for years to come in future TF budgets unless they can recoup those losses somehow fairly soon.

Well obviously, it might not have been towards me personally (I bought that KT Collection Ai figure. Hell, I still want Kiss Convoy and BTA Alert), I just meant, like, in general. Honestly, now that the moe bubble's really grown out of proportion in Japan, now might be the time to try again!

"Soundwave-kun, am I cute, uguu~?"

It still seems to me like an extremely niche-market item.

JediTricks wrote:Not at all. Legion is a throwback to the low-cost Legends scale that was created for non-toy-retailers to have a Transformers presence, like CVS Drug Stores. Cyberverse was created years later basically to act as a "Star Wars figures" type of expression, 4-inch collectible TF toys that can be displayed a la collectors' Star Wars figures (the idea was from one of the guys who went from SW team to TF team, at least according to Hasbro's SDCC '10 panel, or maybe it was their Botcon '11 panel). Basically they're just Cyberverse because they're both "basic" sized and priced.

But then...why are only the larger-scale characters made into Commander class toys, while the ones smaller than them stay as Legion, and vice-versa? If the Commanders were meant to act as their own, SW-style all-encompassing scale, then why didn't we see any character double dipping? There was no Commander Bumblebee, or Starscream (nor were there any Legion Class Optimuses or Megatrons in Cyberverse). For that matter, why were there Cyberverse Action Sets that included either Legion or Commander figures? These playsets are made to be used by their included figure (Commander or Legion) and can then hook up and interact with other sets. The two size classes are part of the same scale/subline, they are definitely meant to be used together.

Well obviously, it might not have been towards me personally (I bought that KT Collection Ai figure. Hell, I still want Kiss Convoy and BTA Alert), I just meant, like, in general. Honestly, now that the moe bubble's really grown out of proportion in Japan, now might be the time to try again!

"Soundwave-kun, am I cute, uguu~?"

It still seems to me like an extremely niche-market item.

Look, I just want more kawaii animu girls in my Transformers, is that too much to ask?