Dumb fans think Furman should write G1 #81 and beyond.

[BWprowl]

Any reader would expect an ongoing story to stay consistent with what had been previously established, regardless of if a new writer took a new direction or not. And Furman wasn't the only one who'd written stories for IDW's Transformers run at that point, with "Megatron: Origin" written by Eric Holmes, and a few of the Spotlight issues by other authors.

Yeah, and Megatron Origin and some of the more off Spotlights (particularly Spotlight Mirage which also attracts a fair amount of flak from the wiki) also catch a lot of shit just for not lining up with Master Simon's vision. It's like these people don't care if a story's good/interesting at all, and are mainly interested in how stupidly long and huge a particular, continuing story can get.

I don't think that's a fair assessment. It's not uncommon for comic book writers to stay on a series for years, slowly building up various plots points.

It's a perfectly fair assessment. McCarthy had his story done, from start to finish, with full payoff, in only twelve issues (yeah, twelve, more on that in a second), and AHM still took crap for 'taking too long'. Just counting the main arc of the -ion books plus Stormbringer, Furman dragged his ass across TWENTY-EIGHT issues, and things were STILL so unresolved by that point that he had to do a rush job to finish things up with Revelation since IDW was about to cut him off at that point anyway, and even after that, he STILL had to use parts of Maximum Dinobots to resolve some of the leftover plot threads. And there was still crap dangling at the end of it all! Furman took the job of handling IDW's main G1 stuff obviously having no real idea what he wanted done with the whole thing beyond 'keep on adding plot points and dragging things out'. McCarthy just wrote his story, made his point, ended the damn thing, then took a bow.

Sixteen. Remember they added the "Coda" issues to the run to try and smooth out some things...

The Coda issues aren't part of McCarthy's overall story (most of them weren't even written by him). They were there to flesh out a few of the character concepts, and mostly to tease at ideas they were going to be bringing in in the subsequent Ongoing series. AHM was clearly done by issue 12.

I don't see that fans necessarily wanted Furman's story to continue (I remember I was personally looking forward to a new story direction), just some consistency with it. And again, I don't see how you can blame the fans for expecting consistency in what's supposed to be an ongoing story.

This is kinda the core of the whole argument: My opinion is: "Who gives a shit about consistency? I just want a decent story." I mean, there are *tons* of TF stories out there that don't match up with anything in particular that don't get nearly the flak AHM gets for not lining up perfectly with a couple years worth of mediocre comics that had mainly been written by *one guy*. Maybe if it had been some decades-old plot dynasty that McCarthy had thrown out, I could see all the hubbub erupting around it, but that's not what it was: it was McCarthy coming in and writing a new story (based on a series that gets rebooted and reinvented every damn Thursday, mind you) that ignored a couple years worth of Simon Furman jerking around. And he didn't even out-and-out ignore it either: He just skipped forward a couple years (leaving plenty of time for Simon to resolve his plots if he ever got around to it), and didn't mention some of the MacGuffins from the previous arcs (and I can't believe anyone was really concerned about Ore-13 or the goddamn Magnificence).

As I've said before, what it keeps coming back to for me is that I just can't believe that people got so attached to Furman's -ion series that it would completely dampen any chance they had of enjoying All Hail Megatron. And yet they did. *Most* people did. It makes me feel like I'm either crazy, or the only sane person left.

Maxumim Dinobots was the finish to those stories. It effectively wrapped up all the loose ends from the -ation books and paved the way for AHM and the ongoing. having just re read all of that (I'm still rereading AHM), it actually is pretty consistent.

Not sure if you're aware of this, but MaxDino was actually written *after* All Hail Megatron. So it was effectively Simon trying to reconcile his stories with AHM a bit.

[Shockwave]

I must have forgot that about Maximum Dinobots. Either way, when I read it now, everything seems consistent.

And you're not the only sane person left. I liked the -ation books and I liked AHM.

[Sparky Prime]

Yeah, and Megatron Origin and some of the more off Spotlights (particularly Spotlight Mirage which also attracts a fair amount of flak from the wiki) also catch a lot of shit just for not lining up with Master Simon's vision. It's like these people don't care if a story's good/interesting at all, and are mainly interested in how stupidly long and huge a particular, continuing story can get.

How does "Megatron: Origin" or those Spotlights (with the one exception of Mirage's Spotlight before McCarthy took over) not line up with the story Furman was working on? And part of writing a good story involves staying consistent with what's been established in that story. AHM couldn't even 'cross that bridge' by itself.

It's a perfectly fair assessment. McCarthy had his story done, from start to finish, with full payoff, in only twelve issues (yeah, twelve, more on that in a second), and AHM still took crap for 'taking too long'. Just counting the main arc of the -ion books plus Stormbringer, Furman dragged his ass across TWENTY-EIGHT issues, and things were STILL so unresolved by that point that he had to do a rush job to finish things up with Revelation

You seem to be missing the point of what an ongoing story is and getting hung-up on how IDW was formatting the story by arcs. Furman was writing more of a long term story, divided into story arc sections. McCarthy wrote a more contained story arc. Both suffered from pacing problems.

McCarthy just wrote his story, made his point, ended the damn thing, then took a bow.

It wasn't so much McCarthy took a bow as IDW wanted to change directions with the story again. AHM was not well received.

The Coda issues aren't part of McCarthy's overall story (most of them weren't even written by him). They were there to flesh out a few of the character concepts, and mostly to tease at ideas they were going to be bringing in in the subsequent Ongoing series. AHM was clearly done by issue 12.

Doesn't matter if it was part of McCarthy's run or not. It's still a part of AHM that IDW felt was necessary to fill some gaps.

This is kinda the core of the whole argument: My opinion is: "Who gives a shit about consistency? I just want a decent story."

To me, part of what makes a decent story is consistency. I don't see how you can write a decent story without it.

I mean, there are *tons* of TF stories out there that don't match up with anything in particular that don't get nearly the flak AHM gets

Maybe because those stories aren't meant to match up with anything in particular? AHM doesn't have that luxury.

As I've said before, what it keeps coming back to for me is that I just can't believe that people got so attached to Furman's -ion series that it would completely dampen any chance they had of enjoying All Hail Megatron. And yet they did. *Most* people did. It makes me feel like I'm either crazy, or the only sane person left.

Again, I'm not so sure it's that people were so much attached to Furman's -ion series, but the fact that AHM didn't stay consistent to the story it's supposed to be set in.

[BWprowl]

And part of writing a good story involves staying consistent with what's been established in that story. AHM couldn't even 'cross that bridge' by itself.

You seem to be missing the point of what an ongoing story is and getting hung-up on how IDW was formatting the story by arcs. Furman was writing more of a long term story, divided into story arc sections. McCarthy wrote a more contained story arc. Both suffered from pacing problems.

But see, that's my whole point. I don't see it all as one long, never-ending story. Each one of these story arcs is their writer's own thing. Why is it that Furman gets to reboot G1 for the umpteenth time and do whatever he wants and everyone loves the -ion series for it, but as soon as McCarthy wants to come in and write his own story everyone tells him "No, you can't do that, that's bad. You should just keep writing the story the guy before you was writing.". It's like...it's like if people had crapped all over 'Watchmen' just because it wasn't set in the regular DC Universe and following along with whatever stupid events were going on at the time. Who cares if everything lines up with a different story from a different author that not everyone may have read? It's a good story by itself, and that's all that matters.

Actually, it's almost exactly the same as what Beast Machines goes through. Beast Machines was an *awesome* series by itself with some really brilliant stuff going on, but everyone was too busy flailing their arms around screaming about how their favorite characters weren't the same way they'd been years ago to notice.

It wasn't so much McCarthy took a bow as IDW wanted to change directions with the story again. AHM was not well received.

And yet McCarthy still managed to completely finish his story before his time was up. What a guy.

The Coda issues aren't part of McCarthy's overall story (most of them weren't even written by him). They were there to flesh out a few of the character concepts, and mostly to tease at ideas they were going to be bringing in in the subsequent Ongoing series. AHM was clearly done by issue 12.

Doesn't matter if it was part of McCarthy's run or not. It's still a part of AHM.

Bull. Shit. I don't judge Furman's -ion run by including the Spotlights he didn't write like Ramjet or Kup (too bad for him, since those would boost the overall grade significantly) and you can hardly knock McCarthy's pacing on AHM by including four issues written by people who weren't him that were explicitly set after the story was finished (seriously, do you even know what a coda is?)

This is kinda the core of the whole argument: My opinion is: "Who gives a shit about consistency? I just want a decent story."

To me, part of what makes a decent story is consistency. I don't see how you can write a decent story without it.

As long as the story's consistent with itself, I don't see what the problem is. Do you seriously rag on modern Marvel and DC comics if they happen to contradict/not mention a story from the fifties?

I mean, there are *tons* of TF stories out there that don't match up with anything in particular that don't get nearly the flak AHM gets

Maybe because those stories aren't meant to match up with anything in particular? AHM doesn't have that luxury.

See my first point above. I can't believe you're actually asserting that Shane McCarthy isn't *allowed* to write the story that he wants to write.

Again, I'm not so sure it's that people were so much attached to Furman's -ion series, but the fact that AHM didn't stay consistent to the story it's supposed to be set in.

Yeah, well, the -ion series isn't consistent with Furman's Marvel G1 comics, and yet I don't hear anyone complaining about that.

[Shockwave]

(seriously, do you even know what a coda is?)

Child Of Deaf Adult? What? I didn't make that up!

Yeah, well, the -ion series isn't consistent with Furman's Marvel G1 comics, and yet I don't hear anyone complaining about that.

Um... doesn't this thread title kinda prove otherwise?

Shockwave
-Just sayin'.

[Sparky Prime]

But see, that's my whole point. I don't see it all as one long, never-ending story. Each one of these story arcs is their writer's own thing.

That makes absolutely no sense to me. I can see calling a story arc the writers own thing to a degree, but what they're writing is essentially a chapter of a larger book for the company that owns the rights. You can't just ignore the other chapters.

Why is it that Furman gets to reboot G1 for the umpteenth time and do whatever he wants and everyone loves the -ion series for it, but as soon as McCarthy wants to come in and write his own story everyone tells him "No, you can't do that, that's bad. You should just keep writing the story the guy before you was writing."

You keep making this claim about a writer continuing the work of the author before them. But that's not the same thing as simply keeping the consistency. Of course the new writer is going to write their own story, but at the same time, that doesn't mean they can just do whatever they want with it and ignore what other authors already established or what the company that owns the rights wants out of it. Again, they can't just ignore that their part of the story is supposed to fit and be a part of the larger story.

Actually, it's almost exactly the same as what Beast Machines goes through. Beast Machines was an *awesome* series by itself with some really brilliant stuff going on, but everyone was too busy flailing their arms around screaming about how their favorite characters weren't the same way they'd been years ago to notice.

Because it's part of a larger story and most people aren't going to just ignore that fact...

And yet McCarthy still managed to completely finish his story before his time was up. What a guy.

Yeah, at least he kept it a short train wreck. But still, it was a train wreck...

Bull. Shit. I don't judge Furman's -ion run by including the Spotlights he didn't write like Ramjet or Kup (too bad for him, since those would boost the overall grade significantly) and you can hardly knock McCarthy's pacing on AHM by including four issues written by people who weren't him that were explicitly set after the story was finished (seriously, do you even know what a coda is?)

I didn't say I was judging McCarthy on the Coda issues, I said they're a part of the AHM series. And actually he did write one of the stories in issue #14.

As long as the story's consistent with itself, I don't see what the problem is. Do you seriously rag on modern Marvel and DC comics if they happen to contradict/not mention a story from the fifties?

They do get quite a bit of criticism for it actually. That and they have a habit of retconning that sort of thing...

See my first point above. I can't believe you're actually asserting that Shane McCarthy isn't *allowed* to write the story that he wants to write.

You make it sound like McCarthy could do anything he wants with it. IDW and ultimately Hasbro own the rights to it. He'd have to follow their direction first and foremost. And again, as AHM is part of an ongoing story IDW publishes, he had an obligation towards that as well.

Yeah, well, the -ion series isn't consistent with Furman's Marvel G1 comics, and yet I don't hear anyone complaining about that.

....You're kidding, right? Of course no one complains those aren't consistent. Those are two totally separate continuities.

[BWprowl]

Yeah, well, the -ion series isn't consistent with Furman's Marvel G1 comics, and yet I don't hear anyone complaining about that.

....You're kidding, right? Of course no one complains those aren't consistent. Those are two totally separate continuities.

Yeah, and it weren't for the fact that they both had 'IDW' up in the corners of their covers, you probably wouldn't even have been able to tell that Furman's run and AHM were supposed to be in the same continuity.

Seriously, how people have such a big problem with AHM based mainly on the fact that IDW told them "Hey, this and the -ion series are supposed to be part of the same story". Sparky, let me ask what I should've asked way earlier: If AHM had explicitly been in an isolated, Elseworlds-esque continuity, would you have had as big a problem with it?

[Mako Crab]

My point is that Costa's writing shows thought and intelligence. The writing on "Prime"....does not. Hence my suprise that somebody would rank "Prime" higher than the ongoing.

Oh, Dom. I've already gone over my issues with the ongoing in detail over in the ongoing thread. Maybe Costa's gotten better since I dropped the book (issue 13), but it doesn't matter. I stuck it out for 13 months and did not have a rewarding reading experience in all that time. That's an amazingly long amount of time to give a show or a book a chance. Costa presented some interesting *IDEAS*, but he displayed little ability in developing those ideas beyond their inception and taking them somewhere. Good ideas do not a good story make.

Meanwhile, Transformers: Prime may be formulaic, but each episode tells a good, solid story from start to finish and entertains me. I feel rewarded for spending my time watching the show. I like most all the characters (Optimus himself being the boring exception), whereas I don't like hardly anyone in the ongoing.

And besides, I know you generally agree with me on the quality of the ongoing. You said as much in the other thread.

(from the ongoing thread)
It sounds like your complaints are like less forgiving iterations of the sort of thing I would say.

[Ursus mellifera]

I like AHM.

That is all.

[Gomess]

I'm still trying to find a free version of WinRAR so I can read this file O6 sent me.