What needs to be done to improve TF3?

Money, violence, sex, computer graphics, scatalogical humor, racism, robots designed to be rednecks but given European accents, and maybe another sequel to the saga... what's not to love? TF m1, Revenge of the Fallen, Dark of the Moon and now Age of Extinction.
Post Reply
User avatar
Dominic
Supreme-Class
Posts: 9331
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:55 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: What needs to be done to improve TF3?

Post by Dominic »

Prowl, so help me....If we start getting angry letters from fundamentalists...... I am forwarding all of them to you.

ALL OF THEM.

I am not expecting it, but if it happens....... (I have you e-mail, do not forget that. Of course, you have mine. And, are probably more devious than I am at this sort of thing. So, actually, lets not do this.)


Which is why I said: obviously you're failing to understand my use of it.
No, I am understanding it. You are weighing popular reaction as a metric of something being good.

This is absurd. Popular reaction is what gave us VHS over BETA back in the 80s, despite BETA being a quantifiably better technology. But, VHS managed to sell more, and get itself more places. It had better marketing and distribuion.

And, the entertainment defense generally goes like, "What did you expect, this is entertainment? Go read a book or something if you smarts."


Entertainment involves being satisfied, something which ROTF does not deliver. I cannot speak for AHM.
And, satisfaction involves having standards met or even exceeded.

Heh, Dom actually wanted a comic series to do that after the first one, IIRC. Crisis on Infinite Cy-Bay-Trons!
Actually, I just wanted, (and tried to start), a listing of variations on the Bay-verse. The last thing I wanted was something like that to be in context though.

Y'know Trekkie, you brought up a good point. I don't know why I ever went in with the pretense that this movie would be very good, it has The Fallen in it.
The Fallen has been used well. Of course, the one example of that I can think of is "War Within II", which actually had ideas. And, I am willing to concede that "War Within II" was good despite the Fallen, not because of.

Idea is a loaded word.
I just do not know what to say. (Self-ZING!)


Trekkie's comments either illustrate my comments on low expectations.

Trekkie is basically saying, "well, I was not expecting anything great, and hey!". This is like being surrounded by burly men in a prison shower and only getting beater. ("Well, it could have been so much worse really.") By setting his expectations low, Trekkie is setting his standards low, and is thus more forgiving.

Low expectations are making Trekkie very forgiving, which illustrates what I was saying.
On the contrary, my expectations were quite high,
What did you expect?

I suddenly remember what I was going to add to my last post. I worked at a Blockbuster for 4 1/2 years. In that time I've seen the best movies on the planet and I've seen the worst movies on the planet. And let's face it, these movies were never going to win a ton of oscars. Compared to the entire rest of cinematic achievement these films are crap. But that doesn't mean they don't have their entertainment value and they're also far from being the worst movies ever.
Even a few pounds worth of Oscars would only be an indication of interest though.

And, as Trekkie points out, given how badly Bay's TF compares to other movies, it is hard to praise them. There is better value for entertainment dollars available.

Dom
-hard pressed to think of worse movies.
User avatar
BWprowl
Supreme-Class
Posts: 4145
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:15 pm
Location: Shelfwarming, because of Shellforming
Contact:

Re: What needs to be done to improve TF3?

Post by BWprowl »

Dominic wrote:
Heh, Dom actually wanted a comic series to do that after the first one, IIRC. Crisis on Infinite Cy-Bay-Trons!
Actually, I just wanted, (and tried to start), a listing of variations on the Bay-verse. The last thing I wanted was something like that to be in context though.
Hrn, I distinctly recall you saying that you would like to see a 'Crisis on Infinite Earths'-style story done with the various movie-verses, to reconcile all the differences.

The Fallen has been used well. Of course, the one example of that I can think of is "War Within II", which actually had ideas. And, I am willing to concede that "War Within II" was good despite the Fallen, not because of.
Well, War Within II was actually the only comic that pre-ROTF Fallen was actually in, so there's a good reason it's the only one you can think of. And I...kinda hated War Within II. The 'plot twist' at the beginning is so random and hackneyed and terribly done, and it only spirals into more of a mess from there. Characters and subfactions get into fights for no reason other than to fill pages. And Grimlock was at his wangsty worst. And Jetfire was an idiot. Gah, now you've got me thinking about that comic again, and it's pissing me off...
Image
User avatar
Dominic
Supreme-Class
Posts: 9331
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:55 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: What needs to be done to improve TF3?

Post by Dominic »

The whole point of "War Within 2" was lost cohesion. If Furman had left Prime and Megatron in place as neutered leaders, people could have complained that nobody was following the proper leader even if Furman spent pages explaining why.


I honestly do not recall wanting a CoIE type story.

Dom
User avatar
Shockwave
Supreme-Class
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:10 pm
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: What needs to be done to improve TF3?

Post by Shockwave »

The Fallen is a plot device at best for the whole mystical "God-level big bad is coming" schtick. If they were gonna go that route, why not just do Unicron?

A CoiE type story would still be an improvement in TF3.
User avatar
Sparky Prime
Supreme-Class
Posts: 5338
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:12 am

Re: What needs to be done to improve TF3?

Post by Sparky Prime »

Dominic wrote:No, I am understanding it. You are weighing popular reaction as a metric of something being good.
Well you might be starting to understand, but you aren't quite there yet...
User avatar
Shockwave
Supreme-Class
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:10 pm
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: What needs to be done to improve TF3?

Post by Shockwave »

something being regarded by popularity as good doesn't make it good. Case in point, Natural Born Killers. Most people will say that's a good movie. Personally I think it sucked and is #3 on my list of all time worst movies ever. So just because everyone else likes it doesn't make it good.
User avatar
Sparky Prime
Supreme-Class
Posts: 5338
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:12 am

Re: What needs to be done to improve TF3?

Post by Sparky Prime »

transtrekkie wrote:something being regarded by popularity as good doesn't make it good. Case in point, Natural Born Killers. Most people will say that's a good movie. Personally I think it sucked and is #3 on my list of all time worst movies ever. So just because everyone else likes it doesn't make it good.
In a way you're closer to what I'm talking about... Something regarded by the popularity as good/bad doesn't make it good/bad to the individual person. Again, it's the point that what's "good" or "bad" is all based upon personal opinions.
User avatar
Dominic
Supreme-Class
Posts: 9331
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:55 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: What needs to be done to improve TF3?

Post by Dominic »

So, your saying popularity is not an indicator of how good something is to an individual, but popularity in fact is an indicator of how good something is....universally?


transtrekkie wrote:something being regarded by popularity as good doesn't make it good. Case in point, Natural Born Killers. Most people will say that's a good movie. Personally I think it sucked and is #3 on my list of all time worst movies ever. So just because everyone else likes it doesn't make it good.

What did it take to get the first two spot!?!?!?!?


Dom
User avatar
Shockwave
Supreme-Class
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:10 pm
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: What needs to be done to improve TF3?

Post by Shockwave »

Dominic wrote:So, your saying popularity is not an indicator of how good something is to an individual, but popularity in fact is an indicator of how good something is....universally?


transtrekkie wrote:something being regarded by popularity as good doesn't make it good. Case in point, Natural Born Killers. Most people will say that's a good movie. Personally I think it sucked and is #3 on my list of all time worst movies ever. So just because everyone else likes it doesn't make it good.

What did it take to get the first two spot!?!?!?!?


Dom
I don't think he's even saying that. I think he's saying that popularity counts for nothing. If you think something's good, it's good to you and to bollocks with what anyone else thinks.

Clockwork Orange was #2. #1 I don't know the name of, it was some movie I saw on HBO late at night that, as far as I could tell was just a random collection of scenes having nothing to do with each other and no plot or discernable characters. #4 is Jacob's Latter, #5 is What Dreams May Come, then Vanilla Sky (nothing pisses me off more than a sci-fi movie with no freakin' sci-fi in it).
User avatar
Dominic
Supreme-Class
Posts: 9331
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:55 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: What needs to be done to improve TF3?

Post by Dominic »

Earlier, Sparky was citing examples that said critics should factor in audience reaction to movies.

I have not seen any of the other movies you just listed. But, the last person to tell me "Clockwork Orange" was good was using strange moral reasons that have no real-life applications.

Dom
Post Reply