GI Joe General

[Onslaught Six]

Yeah, but these are GI Joe fans. Go ahead and go read HISSTank sometime, if you want to feel like rinsing your eyeballs out with bleach. These guys make Geewunners look like revolutionaries.

Cowing to fanboys too much makes a project inaccessible to anybody, even said fanboys. Plus, anybody invested in Tatum's Duke that much is kidding themselves so it doesn't matter what's on the screen, only what's in that person's head, and that means they can never be satisfied.

Hey, you're preaching to the choir. I was only addressing that GI Joe fans (the main ones speculating that Duke would be written back in) have their heads up their own ass.

Ok, I wasn't sure if it was out of his hands for that long, does it get flipped away after the shuriken bit? I thought he flipped around and was standing over by it again after. Anyway, that's one of those things that shows Chu's inexperience, having a big moment with the uzi only to not have it later means making a bigger deal out of losing it.

Yeah, there were a few shots, but I don't think he ever gets it back. He certainly didn't seem to have it any later in the movie.

First off, don't threaten me with suggestions of rewaching ROC, that should be classified as a warcrime!

Between this, sending comics back, and butt pictures, there's a lot of threats around here lately.

Anyway, "Mindbender" in the movie is just some regular-ass jerk who makes nanites and then disappears and doesn't matter at all, BUT then we have "The Doctor" who wears a monacle and acts like Mindbender and goes bald, he's the one that turns out to be Cobra Commander. The Doctor Mindbender character is CC in ROC, I stand by that.

I guess you could debate that, but then you have to say stuff like "Heavy Duty is Roadblock," and that doesn't make much sense at all.

[quite="Dom"]Aside: Shame on Hasbro for not making a Lady Jaye (at least as far as I know), given her high profile in the movie. [/quote]

No, they did! She's in the, uh, well...the toyline's kind of a mess right now. But they made one. She's in what Hasbro is now calling "Wave 2.5," which (before the delay) was the original Wave 3 and would have hit sometime last August. Now, the new "Wave 3" is way bigger and totally different, while Wave 4 will have most of the figures from "Wave 2.5" and some carry-overs from Waves 2 and 3. (She's also mostly just Renegades Scarlett with a new paintjob, head and a buttload of guns, but that's not a bad thing.)
http://generalsjoes.com/reviews/2013/re ... yjaye.html

The movies are not likely to do well enough to warrant a yearly sequel

Hard to say; apparently so far Retaliation has made about $132 million worldwide, beating the tar out of ROC's $91 mil release weekend. ROC made about $300 million worldwide in its theatrical run. Paramount has all but greenlit the third movie now.

-Jinx: Did somebody forget that she was in the first movie, (during a training scene), or is that simply being ignored?

That wasn't Jinx, that was just some lady with optic camo. It might have been intended to be some poor imitation of Jinx, but she was never named in ROC.

-confirmed Joe kills: Duke and Mouse are obviously killed in the massacre. The credits list Grunt, Clutch and Havok. (Havok is not a name I recognize, and was actually the name of the a vehicle in the original series. Maybe they meant to call him CrossCountry?)

Clutch is apparently named at one point. (He's driving the vehicle holding the warhead; Duke calls him by name at one point.) Havok, it turns out, is one of those "placeholder names that made it into the credits by mistake," like "Wheelbot" from ROTF. The actor listed as playing Havok actually played Zandar, Zartan's head Secret Service guy. Nobody can confirm that "Grunt" made an appearance though. (Might have to wait for the DVD for that one.) I also recognized a "Stoop" in the credits, but apparently that was Roadblock's Ice Cube lookalike friend from the hood.

"Sigma 6" was a good example of FireFly being redone right. When I first saw the toy, I figured that Hasbro was just re-using the name to keep it trademarked (not unlike their being a Minicon named "Shockwave" in the "Cybertron" series). I just happened to catch some of the cartoon and something about FireFly's voice made me think that they were setting up for something. (He had a "bad guy" voice.) That was sort of clever.

(I actually bought the S6 FireFly toy, despite not really liking the look of the line over-all.)

Get this--according to Stevenson and Chu in interviews, Firefly is intended to be an ex-GI Joe member. But that, like a lot of little plot details, apparently got cut for time.

"Sigma 6" was a good example of FireFly being redone right. When I first saw the toy, I figured that Hasbro was just re-using the name to keep it trademarked (not unlike their being a Minicon named "Shockwave" in the "Cybertron" series). I just happened to catch some of the cartoon and something about FireFly's voice made me think that they were setting up for something. (He had a "bad guy" voice.) That was sort of clever.

(I actually bought the S6 FireFly toy, despite not really liking the look of the line over-all.)

Joe and TF share some of the same producers--the same producers who didn't understand that there were Autobots and Decepticons, and that Transformers need to talk.

Yeah, the ninja scenes were a waste of narrative time. Blind Master was poorly played....and added nothing to the story.

While I can't claim to defend Blind Master's portrayal, in a screenwriting sense his role makes perfect sense--take him away, and you have Storm Shadow trying to justify his actions and defend himself against a character who doesn't talk. How's that going to work?

But, credit where credit is due. The ninja fight was well paced and set against a gorgeous background. And, for all it lacked in narrative terms, it had kid appeal up the wazoo. I have not bought a single "Retaliation" figure. But, I will say that all of those zip-line gimmick figures make me wish that I was a kid or maybe had a few kids more directly in my life. That scene where Snake Eyes and Jinx just drop on to a conveniently "there" line and slide down, oh man I would have eaten that up as a kid, logic and sensibiltiy be damned.

It's worth noting that Chu and the choreographers actually had Hasbro send them some toys, and they worked out the mountain scenes in a production room somewhere using couches and lamps. (I have a few extra zip lines. You want them?)

I noticed that the movie back-pedalled on "GI Joe" being international, as it was in the first movie. Breaker (Moroccan) and Heavy Duty (West Indian maybe?) may have died. But, why was the US President/Zartan able to wipe out the team with no international repercussions?

It's possible that even if Breaker and Heavy Duty were originally from other countries, GI Joe was a US-based unit. (The Pit being in Egypt throws a cog in this, but Hawk is clearly an American commander, as are most of the other members in ROC.) Given his backstory, Snake Eyes is also possibly from Japan. (I think Heavy Duty is supposed to be South African.)

Of course, given the logic of Zartan's actions, I suppose I should not have expected much better than what the movie gave us with Storm Shadow. Seriously, think about Zartan. The guy is a mercenary who has found himself in a cushy job that has a fantastic retirement package and offers easy money doing speaking tours and such *for life*. Why the hell would he upset the apple cart by releasing Cobra Commander?

Best I can think of is that Zartan is a greedy fuck. Alternatively, maybe the nanomites wear off after so many months. (Realistically, Retaliation seems to be taking place, at best, a year or so after ROC. There's no reason to assume that the nanomites would continue working after the President's current term.)

[Dominic]

No, they did! She's in the, uh, well...the toyline's kind of a mess right now. But they made one. She's in what Hasbro is now calling "Wave 2.5," which (before the delay) was the original Wave 3 and would have hit sometime last August. Now, the new "Wave 3" is way bigger and totally different, while Wave 4 will have most of the figures from "Wave 2.5" and some carry-overs from Waves 2 and 3. (She's also mostly just Renegades Scarlett with a new paintjob, head and a buttload of guns, but that's not a bad thing.)
http://generalsjoes.com/reviews/2013/re ... yjaye.html

I hit a Target earlier today. All I saw was wave one and two, much like before the movie hit. The only figures that are consistently selling through are the Joe and Cobra troopers.

I have to wonder if the movie will keep its momentum. Its opening take is impressive though.

That wasn't Jinx, that was just some lady with optic camo. It might have been intended to be some poor imitation of Jinx, but she was never named in ROC.

She was named in the credits I think, much like Grunt in the second movie.

Code: Select all

 
Get this--according to Stevenson and Chu in interviews, Firefly is intended to be an ex-GI Joe member. But that, like a lot of little plot details, apparently got cut for time.
   

Heh, it looks like somebody else liked that idea from "Sigma 6".

It's worth noting that Chu and the choreographers actually had Hasbro send them some toys, and they worked out the mountain scenes in a production room somewhere using couches and lamps. (I have a few extra zip lines. You want them?)

No thanks. I do not have the space to set that up at the moment. (If I were going to set up an elaborate zip-line diorama, I would want it to be permanent.)

Best I can think of is that Zartan is a greedy fuck. Alternatively, maybe the nanomites wear off after so many months. (Realistically, Retaliation seems to be taking place, at best, a year or so after ROC. There's no reason to assume that the nanomites would continue working after the President's current term.)

Is Zandar named in the movie/credits?


Dom
-more or less done with Joe.

[Onslaught Six]

No, they did! She's in the, uh, well...the toyline's kind of a mess right now. But they made one. She's in what Hasbro is now calling "Wave 2.5," which (before the delay) was the original Wave 3 and would have hit sometime last August. Now, the new "Wave 3" is way bigger and totally different, while Wave 4 will have most of the figures from "Wave 2.5" and some carry-overs from Waves 2 and 3. (She's also mostly just Renegades Scarlett with a new paintjob, head and a buttload of guns, but that's not a bad thing.)
http://generalsjoes.com/reviews/2013/re ... yjaye.html

I hit a Target earlier today. All I saw was wave one and two, much like before the movie hit. The only figures that are consistently selling through are the Joe and Cobra troopers.

I have to wonder if the movie will keep its momentum. Its opening take is impressive though.

According to some, kids are all for it, so that's a good thing. Given "Wave 2.5's" scarcity, I am wondering if it was only a small number of leftovers from last year's production run.

She was named in the credits I think, much like Grunt in the second movie.

I'll have to look, but whatever, I guess. It's possible that she's the same character. Who knows.

No thanks. I do not have the space to set that up at the moment. (If I were going to set up an elaborate zip-line diorama, I would want it to be permanent.)

I wish I had the space (and talent) to pull stuff like this off:
http://www.hisstank.com/gi-joe-news/gi- ... lay-12081/

Is Zandar named in the movie/credits?

Zandar is called "Havok" in the credits, but it's one of those placeholder things ("Wheelbot" from ROTF, for example); Zartan calls him Zandar by name during his first appearance. It's brief, but it's there.

-more or less done with Joe.

As long as there's cool toys out, and TF is as lackluster as it's been lately (Generations excluded), I'll probably be invested in it. They keep making cool stuff.

[JediTricks]

Saw it yesterday.

Over all, "Retaliation" was a generic action movie. It would be worth sitting through if somebody was a fan of the genre over-all. And, even then, it is not worth making a point to see. This particular action flick happens to use names and some visual cues from "GI Joe" as a franchise, but that is about it. Flint, Firefly, Zartan, Jaye and (to a less extent Storm Shadow) use the names but not much else of the original characters. This is forgivable with characters like Firefly (as duplicating the originals would be hard to do in any way other than carbon copying them), but less so in the case of Zarton, Flint, Jaye and Storm Shadow, especially given how much was set up for Zartan and Storm Shadow in the first movie.

But, but... HISS Tanks! Generic? WATER MOCCASINS!

Still, I agree that it stinks from generic action movie material, that is what drags it down. Except the ninja scenes, that stuff felt fresh compared to most of the fare out there.

As was the case 4 years ago, I do not see the movies as they are being the thing that saves the fanchise. Not gonna happen. The movies are too generic and inarticulate to last beyond their first impression as summer blockbusters. The movies are not likely to do well enough to warrant a yearly sequel, which is the only way that a purely movie drive property can survive. IDW made a point of divorcing from the movie almost as soon as the first movie hit. (Their "doctor/Commander" character ended up being somebody else entirely, and ended up getting killed about a year later.)

Paramount has decided to do a 3rd film.

That said, you are RIGHT ON THE MONEY about the movies being too generic and inarticulate to last beyond first impressions as summer blockbusters, it's the same thing with Star Trek, they won't save their franchises and they're both Paramount, they've compromised their souls so much to have lost the appeal to the original franchises. I would say that this Retaliation is the closest to getting it right though.

I am personally just about done with Joe as a property. (I am reading "Cobra" because Costa is writing it, and the espionage noir feel is really working.) Even if I were not, the movies are not good enough to hold my interest. (Even Bay's TF movies have more weight to them.) The credits looked designed to sell the "DVD with cut scenes", but none of those scenes look to be worth buying the DVD for unless you were buying it to begin with.

Sadly, not only am I also pretty much done with Joe (although the toy pricing and quality has a lot more to do with it for me), but I even have to agree on the point about Bay's TF and you KNOW how little I want to do that.

Supposedly there's a mountain of content cut from the final movie, character stuff and subplots and whatnot.

-Jinx: Did somebody forget that she was in the first movie, (during a training scene), or is that simply being ignored?

Was she? I guess it's being ignored then since she doesn't become a Joe until the end of this film.

-confirmed Joe kills: Duke and Mouse are obviously killed in the massacre. The credits list Grunt, Clutch and Havok. (Havok is not a name I recognize, and was actually the name of the a vehicle in the original series. Maybe they meant to call him CrossCountry?)

Not said onscreen means not dead. Suck it, Duke and Mouse.

In theory, they could bring back any of the original cast later. (The explanation could be that those characters escaped the purge similar to Roadblock and the others.) I would tend to figure that the origional case characters, and any characters name-dropped in the first movie credits died though.

No, I can't accept that, Roadblock, Lady Jaye, and Flint Jr didn't just run for the hills, they stood around and collected dog tags from dead bodies, they know exactly who lived and who died. They can't be shown lamenting Duke's death if they didn't end up finding his body and tags among the pile.

-Zartan is not dead. The nanites could likely be assumed to heal him even is Storm Shadow were diligent and thorough about making sure Zartan were dead. (If there is a sequel, I can see this happening.)

Zartan is dead, the nanites left or died when he died. If they want to retcon him back to life that way, it's possible but a stretch. Still, that guy was not really Zartan enough anyway, cut him as dead weight along with any other ROC garbage.

"Sigma 6" was a good example of FireFly being redone right. When I first saw the toy, I figured that Hasbro was just re-using the name to keep it trademarked (not unlike their being a Minicon named "Shockwave" in the "Cybertron" series). I just happened to catch some of the cartoon and something about FireFly's voice made me think that they were setting up for something. (He had a "bad guy" voice.) That was sort of clever.

(I actually bought the S6 FireFly toy, despite not really liking the look of the line over-all.)

They did 2 toys of Firefly, first the Joe version and then the Cobra version. He was a Joe traitor in the show. I only got the second because there were a mountain of Joes in the early waves, way imbalanced.

The ninja stuff would have come from the comics, not the cartoon. (Nobody who was primarily in for the cartoon cares about the ninjas. Similarly, nobody who was in for anything other than the cartoon cares about Duke.)

It definitely came from the comics, it's an homage to the silent comic and a lot of their ninja baggage, but the cartoon hungered for those ninja scenes.

To be fair though, the studio execs dropped the "robot ninja" thing. Similarly, they did not stop the "good ninja" from being dressed in black.

I really do not think that the studio execs are as stupid as you say. I think that they are trying, albeit clumsily, to reach down to that lowest idiot denominator, like the one that Plunkett was talking about in that 'Trek review. Those peoplw will consistently spend money if you can offer them something. More discriminating viewers are much less reliable over-all about spending money on entertainment. The "movie formula" guarantees a minimum return on the studio's investment. (This results in bad movies, but healthy profits.)

They thought Snake Eyes was supposed to be a robot, that's as stupid as it gets. What about the film's context? They're too stupid to get context. They are reaching down to the lowest common denominator because they ARE that stupid. They're creating the future seen in Idiocracy, they are pouring Brawndo on the plants and wondering why it's not working. It's a downward spiral, eventually people get fed up with bad movies and profits go down, now they are using 3D to prop up weak sales but eventually it'll have to be some other shit gimmick.

The concepts of some of those vehicles were great. The Cobra gunship in the movie was fine. The toy was awful. (There was so much, based simply on those few minutes of screen time, that could have made the toy better.) I almost bought a Crusher truck for a MASK themed custom I was working on, but could not justify spending the money.

Your argument is wildly flawed, the Cobra Gunship is a regular helicopter with its rotors removed, it's not great and it has nothing going for it, the FANG-type chopper in Retaliation was 10 times the excitement as the ROC Gunshit. The toy offered little less than the movie version. The Steel Crusher is my only example of a truly passing grade.

Yeah, the ninja scenes were a waste of narrative time. Blind Master was poorly played....and added nothing to the story.

But, credit where credit is due. The ninja fight was well paced and set against a gorgeous background. And, for all it lacked in narrative terms, it had kid appeal up the wazoo. I have not bought a single "Retaliation" figure. But, I will say that all of those zip-line gimmick figures make me wish that I was a kid or maybe had a few kids more directly in my life. That scene where Snake Eyes and Jinx just drop on to a conveniently "there" line and slide down, oh man I would have eaten that up as a kid, logic and sensibiltiy be damned.

I wouldn't say it's an entire waste of time, it moves the main plot along by turning Storm Shadow against Cobra and picking up the torch of the first movie's Snake Eyes vs Storm Shadow backstory stuff - it wasted time but it wasn't an entire waste of time.

Yeah, it was fun to watch. I would guess Snake Eyes and Jinx had to carry about 3 tons of rope with them up that mountain though, and how it stayed taut enough is not a question one can ever ask.

I noticed that the movie back-pedalled on "GI Joe" being international, as it was in the first movie. Breaker (Moroccan) and Heavy Duty (West Indian maybe?) may have died. But, why was the US President/Zartan able to wipe out the team with no international repercussions?

Because that "GI Joe International" movie was an abortion not worthy of connecting to.

I can buy movie Storm Shadow being so obsessed with revenge that he would become a monster. I get that. (The old comics were about how close Storm Shadow was to becoming that monster, even if he never fully did.) But, I was assuming there would be some explanation for why Storm Shadow never recognized Zartan as the killer and acted on it. (Seriously, I figured some kind of mind-control was the only reasoning for that. I never thought that the reason would be "he did not recognize Zartan or figure it out.....after however many years")

I *think* this film was trying to say he wasn't there to see it and didn't have all the information available, and beating his brains around mountainsides jogged what little facts he had loose. Or something like that.

Of course, given the logic of Zartan's actions, I suppose I should not have expected much better than what the movie gave us with Storm Shadow. Seriously, think about Zartan. The guy is a mercenary who has found himself in a cushy job that has a fantastic retirement package and offers easy money doing speaking tours and such *for life*. Why the hell would he upset the apple cart by releasing Cobra Commander?

Cobra Commander pays REALLY well? He's a true believer? The nanites were said to be expiring soon, I think.

Hey, you're preaching to the choir. I was only addressing that GI Joe fans (the main ones speculating that Duke would be written back in) have their heads up their own ass.

That is no surprise, it seems like that fandom suffers so many lows and so few highs that they really go crazy for any hint of hope in any direction they want to see, and of course they also suffer more indignities for that. I suppose some other fandoms out there see us TFans as such tho.

Yeah, there were a few shots, but I don't think he ever gets it back. He certainly didn't seem to have it any later in the movie.

He didn't have opportunity to use it again before grabbing a pair of newer guns at General Machina's house of a million guns.

I guess you could debate that, but then you have to say stuff like "Heavy Duty is Roadblock," and that doesn't make much sense at all.

Heavy Duty has always been a stand-in for Roadblock since the Marvel and Sunbow days.

Hard to say; apparently so far Retaliation has made about $132 million worldwide, beating the tar out of ROC's $91 mil release weekend. ROC made about $300 million worldwide in its theatrical run. Paramount has all but greenlit the third movie now.

Paramount pulled the trigger, approved GI Joe 3. I think based on the heavy int'l turnout.

Get this--according to Stevenson and Chu in interviews, Firefly is intended to be an ex-GI Joe member. But that, like a lot of little plot details, apparently got cut for time.

That is straight out of Sigma 6, Firefly was a Joe turncoat in that series, a double agent if I remember correctly but maybe he could have just been too evil for the Joes and ran off.

Joe and TF share some of the same producers--the same producers who didn't understand that there were Autobots and Decepticons, and that Transformers need to talk.

That would be Mr Lorenzo di Bonaventura's fault, he bought the rights to both movie franchises, took them to Paramount, and let every studio exec leech onto the films as producers.

While I can't claim to defend Blind Master's portrayal, in a screenwriting sense his role makes perfect sense--take him away, and you have Storm Shadow trying to justify his actions and defend himself against a character who doesn't talk. How's that going to work?

Could answer to his cousin, Jinx.

It's worth noting that Chu and the choreographers actually had Hasbro send them some toys, and they worked out the mountain scenes in a production room somewhere using couches and lamps.

That's awesome, that sounds like a ton of fun, a real '80s way to make a movie scene. The more I see from Chu, the more I think he just needs to make a prestige drama film and he'll have enough power to make cool movies for us types.

It's possible that even if Breaker and Heavy Duty were originally from other countries, GI Joe was a US-based unit. (The Pit being in Egypt throws a cog in this, but Hawk is clearly an American commander, as are most of the other members in ROC.) Given his backstory, Snake Eyes is also possibly from Japan. (I think Heavy Duty is supposed to be South African.)

Snake Eyes in the movies is a white kid with blond hair, if he's from Japan it's only because his dad was foreign military on Japanese soil.

I have to wonder if the movie will keep its momentum. Its opening take is impressive though.

Probably another week due to Spring Break, but then I suspect it'll peter out.

I wish I had the space (and talent) to pull stuff like this off:
http://www.hisstank.com/gi-joe-news/gi- ... lay-12081/

Oh shit! That's the diorama that was at last year's Comic-Con, it never occurred to me it actually connected to the film! I watched them set it up.

As long as there's cool toys out, and TF is as lackluster as it's been lately (Generations excluded), I'll probably be invested in it. They keep making cool stuff.

Not much of it though, and so expensive now.

[Onslaught Six]

Was she? I guess it's being ignored then since she doesn't become a Joe until the end of this film.

Really, the way the film opens, it almost feels like they were trying to do what the 2008 Hulk film did. The narration refers to the "Nanomite Wars," which sounds like a much broader conflict than what we actually saw in ROC. (Imagine if it was the POC toyline inbetween movies!)

No, I can't accept that, Roadblock, Lady Jaye, and Flint Jr didn't just run for the hills, they stood around and collected dog tags from dead bodies, they know exactly who lived and who died. They can't be shown lamenting Duke's death if they didn't end up finding his body and tags among the pile.

I think Dom is implying there are other GI Joe subdivisions worldwide who would have been similarly attacked. I have a hard time believing that every single GI Joe enlisted was on that mission.

Regarding characters from the first film returning, though, Chu has implied that he'd like to go with a system that assumes GI Joe code names could be "reused," and that (for example) Scarlett appearing in Joe 3 would not necessarily be the same character as ROC's Scarlett.

Yeah, it was fun to watch. I would guess Snake Eyes and Jinx had to carry about 3 tons of rope with them up that mountain though, and how it stayed taut enough is not a question one can ever ask.

The original script apparently actually called for Snake Eyes and Jinx to paradrop from a plane and use the "wingsuits" that later got used in DOTM (for a completely useless scene). They switched to the zip line stuff because of that. They saw something on YouTube about a guy who would really do that--climb mountains and zip line from random locations. (And apparently he died doing it.)

I *think* this film was trying to say he wasn't there to see it and didn't have all the information available, and beating his brains around mountainsides jogged what little facts he had loose. Or something like that.

Obviously, Storm Shadow knew that he, himself, didn't kill the Hard Master, and he knew that he had been framed for it, but I get the feeling that the first time he'd seen the sword up close was when he was in the Arashikage dojo. He could have then deduced that the sword was a fake, and thus, it had to have been made by an imposter--and he only knew one guy whose entire MO was impersonating other guys.

It still doesn't explain Zartan's motivation (beyond, I guess, wanting his own child ninja soldier) but there it is.

While I can't claim to defend Blind Master's portrayal, in a screenwriting sense his role makes perfect sense--take him away, and you have Storm Shadow trying to justify his actions and defend himself against a character who doesn't talk. How's that going to work?

Could answer to his cousin, Jinx.

It's possible, I guess, but she's clearly younger than SS and SE, so how would she know about the conflict? She'd need to be told by someone.

That's awesome, that sounds like a ton of fun, a real '80s way to make a movie scene. The more I see from Chu, the more I think he just needs to make a prestige drama film and he'll have enough power to make cool movies for us types.

I think he just needs more experience, a few more movies under his belt to kind of hone his action directing and editing. He obviously understands motion and choreography from his dance shit and he knows how to *shoot* it and make it look good, it's just that stuff seems like it fell apart in editing a little bit. That, and it sounds like there was a lot of crunching from the MPAA to fit this down to a PG-13 rating, for some reason. (Which is insane, for this movie to even be a soft 'R' it'd be the tamest R visually since Clerks.)

Snake Eyes in the movies is a white kid with blond hair, if he's from Japan it's only because his dad was foreign military on Japanese soil.

Both movies make it clear that he was in Japan as a child, though. I think the point was that the characters in ROC were not wholly From America. Even if Heavy Duty and Breaker were from other countries, it's possible that they were moved to America and became citizens before joining GI Joe.

Regardless of SE's birth origins, he's clearly in Japan as a child, and we aren't shown or told what happens in the intervening 20-30 years.

As long as there's cool toys out, and TF is as lackluster as it's been lately (Generations excluded), I'll probably be invested in it. They keep making cool stuff.

Not much of it though, and so expensive now.

The Wave 3 stuff looks great, a lot of cool regular updates (A new mould ARAH Cobra Commander! A new Crimson Guard!) as well as super-detailed movie toys (the best damn Rockblock in the line is in Wave 3, and the best Movie Duke toy ever) combine to mean the toyline is gonna be pretty awesome. I can easily name 10 upcoming figures that I want.

[Dominic]

I wish I had the space (and talent) to pull stuff like this off:
http://www.hisstank.com/gi-joe-news/gi- ... lay-12081/

That is time and money I just do not have.....

Never mind the space.

But, but... HISS Tanks! Generic? WATER MOCCASINS!

They were kewl tanks and boats. But, they are ultimately action movie tanks and boats.

Paramount has decided to do a 3rd film.

Well bugger me then.

Sadly, not only am I also pretty much done with Joe (although the toy pricing and quality has a lot more to do with it for me), but I even have to agree on the point about Bay's TF and you KNOW how little I want to do that.

When you can only enjoy a hobby in the past tense, it is time to consider giving the hobby up. The only current Joe product I bother with is Costa's "Cobra" book. And, I am not reading that as a Joe book.

Supposedly there's a mountain of content cut from the final movie, character stuff and subplots and whatnot.

The movie that I paid to see was not good enough unto itself to justify seeking out more of the same. If the cut scenes and extras are good enough to meaningfully improve the movie, then they should have been part of the damned film that I paid to see last weekend.

No, I can't accept that, Roadblock, Lady Jaye, and Flint Jr didn't just run for the hills, they stood around and collected dog tags from dead bodies, they know exactly who lived and who died. They can't be shown lamenting Duke's death if they didn't end up finding his body and tags among the pile.

I doubt that all of the team was in the desert. I would guess that there were other Joes elsewhere. (Where was Snake-Eyes? Where were Hawk and the other guys from the first movie?) Those Joes would have been killed whereever they were, with maybe a few surviving similar to Marvin Stu and co.

Aside: Did nobody realize that Cobra was the same group that destroyed the Eiffel tower in the first movie? Or, was that being attributed to MARS?

As for Grunt, he was listed in the credits. As far as I am concerned, that means that he was one of the guys who showed up and got killed.

Zartan is dead, the nanites left or died when he died. If they want to retcon him back to life that way, it's possible but a stretch. Still, that guy was not really Zartan enough anyway, cut him as dead weight along with any other ROC garbage.

I can see them bringing Zartan back using nanites as the excuse.

How do you mean that he was "not Zartan enough"?

They did 2 toys of Firefly, first the Joe version and then the Cobra version. He was a Joe traitor in the show. I only got the second because there were a mountain of Joes in the early waves, way imbalanced.

I never even saw the "Cobra" Firefly figure. (Even YoJoe does not seem to have one listed on their "Sigma 6" page.)

They are reaching down to the lowest common denominator because they ARE that stupid. They're creating the future seen in Idiocracy,

On the other hand, they are enjoying financial success, so it is debatable how stupid they are. Either way, I am not going to accuse them of creating the stupidity that is leading us to "Idiocracy". If anything, they are simply exploiting it.

Your argument is wildly flawed, the Cobra Gunship is a regular helicopter with its rotors removed, it's not great and it has nothing going for it, the FANG-type chopper in Retaliation was 10 times the excitement as the ROC Gunshit.

The gun-ship had the potential to be amazing. The toy could have had more features (a winch that pulled figures up through a hole in the craft's floor for example), more space/seating..... (Like I said, good concept, lousy execution.

Yeah, it was fun to watch. I would guess Snake Eyes and Jinx had to carry about 3 tons of rope with them up that mountain though, and how it stayed taut enough is not a question one can ever ask.

Never mind all the wire that the ninjas were firing and at least one span of wire that just seemed to sort of conveniently be there.....

But, man, that scene damned near sold me on the zip-line figures.

That would be Mr Lorenzo di Bonaventura's fault, he bought the rights to both movie franchises, took them to Paramount, and let every studio exec leech onto the films as producers.

How can a man with such an awesome name be associated with so much terrible cinema? It defies comprehension.

The original script apparently actually called for Snake Eyes and Jinx to paradrop from a plane and use the "wingsuits" that later got used in DOTM (for a completely useless scene). They switched to the zip line stuff because of that. They saw something on YouTube about a guy who would really do that--climb mountains and zip line from random locations. (And apparently he died doing it.)

That explains the wave 1 Snake-Eyes toy.


Dom
-wants to like this toy line.

[JediTricks]

Was she? I guess it's being ignored then since she doesn't become a Joe until the end of this film.

Really, the way the film opens, it almost feels like they were trying to do what the 2008 Hulk film did. The narration refers to the "Nanomite Wars," which sounds like a much broader conflict than what we actually saw in ROC. (Imagine if it was the POC toyline inbetween movies!)

Not a bad idea really, that film was able to cut loose all of the previous film's baggage that way.

I think Dom is implying there are other GI Joe subdivisions worldwide who would have been similarly attacked. I have a hard time believing that every single GI Joe enlisted was on that mission.

Regarding characters from the first film returning, though, Chu has implied that he'd like to go with a system that assumes GI Joe code names could be "reused," and that (for example) Scarlett appearing in Joe 3 would not necessarily be the same character as ROC's Scarlett.

If that was the intention, it was expressed wrong.

Reusing the callsigns isn't a bad way to do it, but I don't think mainstream audiences will be able to come along for that ride, and considering how unique the original ARAH characters are it seems entirely unfair to farm their callsigns out. If anybody can be Flint, why should the audience invest in Flint?

The original script apparently actually called for Snake Eyes and Jinx to paradrop from a plane and use the "wingsuits" that later got used in DOTM (for a completely useless scene). They switched to the zip line stuff because of that. They saw something on YouTube about a guy who would really do that--climb mountains and zip line from random locations. (And apparently he died doing it.)

Sucks to hear he died, but I think the ziplines were way more fun than the idiotic wingsuits we saw in DOTM (there were 2 useless scenes with them, weren't there?), this was much more classic ninja fun even if it was entirely silly nonsense. I'll take silly nonsense over stupid and boring and out of character in a film like this every time.

It's possible, I guess, but she's clearly younger than SS and SE, so how would she know about the conflict? She'd need to be told by someone.

Told by Snake Eyes in writing or sign language?

I think he just needs more experience, a few more movies under his belt to kind of hone his action directing and editing. He obviously understands motion and choreography from his dance shit and he knows how to *shoot* it and make it look good, it's just that stuff seems like it fell apart in editing a little bit. That, and it sounds like there was a lot of crunching from the MPAA to fit this down to a PG-13 rating, for some reason. (Which is insane, for this movie to even be a soft 'R' it'd be the tamest R visually since Clerks.)

There was no blood, how could the MPAA have given this an R? This is "fantasy violence" all the way, I hate the fucking MPAA, they are the most arbitrary thing ever.

The editing was done by Jim May, who cut on Van Helsing, Texas Chainsaw Massacre The Beginning, Kangaroo Jack, GI Joe ROC, The A-Team movie, and Cowboys & Aliens; as well as Roger Barton who cut on Gone in 60 Seconds (remake), Pearl Harbor, Bad Boys 2, Amityville Horror remake, SW Episode 3, Speed Racer the movie, ROTF & DOTM, and also the A-Team movie. Sounds like studio hacking to me.

They were kewl tanks and boats. But, they are ultimately action movie tanks and boats.

How dare you! Naw, I think it was great to see those Joe vehicles in this film, it made a difference, it made a statement about living in a Joe universe the way the Millennium Falcon makes a statement about being in the SW universe.

Well bugger me then.

I'll pass, thanks.

The movie that I paid to see was not good enough unto itself to justify seeking out more of the same. If the cut scenes and extras are good enough to meaningfully improve the movie, then they should have been part of the damned film that I paid to see last weekend.

The movie intended to be made doesn't always end up the movie that the studio will allow to go to theaters.

I doubt that all of the team was in the desert. I would guess that there were other Joes elsewhere. (Where was Snake-Eyes? Where were Hawk and the other guys from the first movie?) Those Joes would have been killed whereever they were, with maybe a few surviving similar to Marvin Stu and co.

But that's not escaping the way Roadblock and Lady Jaye and FINO do, which is what you said. Snake Eyes was already said to be on a personal mission, right? Hawk and them left the team, apparently. When Roadblock puts out the call to all Joes, only Snake responds, confirming that there ain't no more Joes. What kind of a dick team would ignore that call?

Aside: Did nobody realize that Cobra was the same group that destroyed the Eiffel tower in the first movie? Or, was that being attributed to MARS?

Ha! I have no idea how they explained that, forgot all about it. I would assume the MARS thing but yeah, don't think too hard about these movies, they're really dumb.

How do you mean that he was "not Zartan enough"?

He didn't look or act much like Zartan, he didn't rely on personal skills to imitate others but on tech, he didn't have that personal sense of style when out of costume, doesn't fight the way Zartan was shown to.

I never even saw the "Cobra" Firefly figure. (Even YoJoe does not seem to have one listed on their "Sigma 6" page.)

Yes it does, they just don't have any images of it for some reason:
http://www.yojoe.com/sigma6/toys/2007/ "Firefly Saboteur", it looks like this: http://www.wackystacker.com/imagesGI/Si ... irefly.jpg
Good figure, lots of personality, comes with a fire gauntlet and fire buzzsaw. Year 3 product was a short distribution coming at the end of the line.

On the other hand, they are enjoying financial success, so it is debatable how stupid they are. Either way, I am not going to accuse them of creating the stupidity that is leading us to "Idiocracy". If anything, they are simply exploiting it.

This is a hotly contestable debate. They are making money (although how much is in question because they spend more and more on marketing just to get the same number of asses in seats, sometimes more than these big budget films cost to make in the first place) but they are burning through their usable content pretty quickly and they don't care that they're ruining franchises to do it, and in my book that is exploiting something stupidly which leads to the breakdown itself.

The gun-ship had the potential to be amazing. The toy could have had more features (a winch that pulled figures up through a hole in the craft's floor for example), more space/seating..... (Like I said, good concept, lousy execution.

The gunship had the potential to be ANYTHING because of how little it was in the film. An empty box has all the potential in the world.

How can a man with such an awesome name be associated with so much terrible cinema? It defies comprehension.

He's a dyed in the wool big hollywood studio executive, that's what they do, they don't make art into entertainment, they don't foster the making of art into entertainment, they only now know how to turn filet mignon into mcdonalds hamburgers - they are the millionaire seen as successful because he inherited 200 million and turned it into 210 million.

It's really hard to like this toyline, I just looked at a ton of it and it all looks like not enough screen for toy and not enough toy for dollar.

[Onslaught Six]

It's really hard to like this toyline, I just looked at a ton of it and it all looks like not enough screen for toy and not enough toy for dollar.

The first two waves suck ass, Roadblock aside. (And even he has room to improve--the retail figure has white paint added to his vest in random places for some reason.) The best figures from it are non-Movie toys like the Joe Trooper and, arguably, the Red Ninja. (The movie's Red Ninjas look entirely different; the Wave 1 toy is just a remould of Renegades/30th Storm Shadow.) It's with 2.5 and Wave 3 that things are gonna get awesome, and also start to justify the price point a little bit.

[Dominic]

The movie intended to be made doesn't always end up the movie that the studio will allow to go to theaters.

Nothing about the Joe movies, or the franchise for the last 5 years has warranted my automatic attention simply by virtue of being "GI Joe". I am not a fan of the action genre, so Chu's vision is not enought to get me to buy the disk.

They had their chance to get me back. They blew it.

But that's not escaping the way Roadblock and Lady Jaye and FINO do, which is what you said. Snake Eyes was already said to be on a personal mission, right? Hawk and them left the team, apparently. When Roadblock puts out the call to all Joes, only Snake responds, confirming that there ain't no more Joes. What kind of a dick team would ignore that call?

I figure any other purge attacks would be hectic and chaotic. Some guys could slip away, and a passing line in the third movie could explain that they were standed or otherwise unable to answer Marvin Stu's call to arms. (I full expect this to be a thing in the next movie.) Is Hawk established to have left the team? I just assumed that he was killed off-panel with most of the team.

It's really hard to like this toyline, I just looked at a ton of it and it all looks like not enough screen for toy and not enough toy for dollar.

If I liked the movies more, I would have grabbed Snake Eyes and a few others like the red ninja and the Joe trooper. But, I just could not bring myself to bother. Even with the Bayformers, I can stil enjoy the toys despite not caring about the movies because the toys varied. With Joes, 90-odd% of the figures are fundamentally the same. I need to be interested in the character the toy represents or the movie/comics the characters are from. (Few if any figures are based on the new IDw comics, so "Cobra" is not going to sell any toys to me.)


Dom
-time to give up on the Joes.....

[Shockwave]

I've been out of GI Joe for quite a while now. After I got the bathroom for the Terrordrome I was pretty much done. I liked ROC and plan to see Retaliation but I haven't been into Joe as a franchise for a while either. Even less so with my financial situation being what it has been for the last few years.