Hasbro destroys third party companies by being way better

[Tigermegatron]

FWIW,3rd party TF toy companies ARE STILL WINNING THE BATTLE,When it comes to creating more accurate updated homages. examples: TFC Hercules,MT Giant,those basic sized G-1 styled insecticons trio. not-springer tripple changer toy. not-arcee's toys. MP conehead seekers with remolded wings,etc......

[Onslaught Six]

FWIW,3rd party TF toy companies ARE STILL WINNING THE BATTLE,When it comes to creating more accurate updated homages. examples: TFC Hercules,MT Giant,those basic sized G-1 styled insecticons trio. not-springer tripple changer toy. not-arcee's toys. MP conehead seekers with remolded wings,etc......

Except all those things cost more than three times what figures their size are worth. Fuck that. I'm not paying convention prices for Deluxes when Hasbro can do it just as well.

[Dominic]

Dude, "Herculues" is ~$600 dollars. I cannot afford that for legitimate figures, never mind custom figures.

Unofficial "Legends" scale figures are $20 or so.

Generally, Hasbro is going to win on price, even if the unofficial toys are a little better.

The only reason that the unofficial figures have any spot in the market is because Hasbro consistently ignores the demand that unofficial manufacturers meet. (In some cases, Hasbro actually seems to be led by unofficial toys, which is *really* unhealthy.)

[BWprowl]

This is the kind of thing that put me off the hobby in 2006. It did not matter how good "Classics" was. I was burned out after Hasbro made the tail end of "Cybertron" so difficult to find. (Releasing large toys that retailes will likely avoid and casting them from new moulds that will attract collectors made no sense.)

What toys were these? I'm curious. The tail-end of Cybertron is about where I got back into collecting after about a year-and-a-half off, so I'm wondering what I was potentially looking for (EVERYTHING was new to me, so I didn't have to think about looking for specific things since virtually everything on the shelf, old and new, was a potential purchase).

[BWprowl]

Double-post because this one is me conceding a point.

Alright JT, I can admit where there may be a problem, re: distribution and new product on shelves. I honestly hadn’t noticed the six-month gap because of my aforementioned spread-out buying habits. Plus I think I’m still comparing the ‘worst of times’ to that period right after the Movie hit in 2007 where there were No Transformers On Shelves, Period. THAT was the worst time to be a collector for me, I still have traumatic flashbacks to those hope-destroying blank red walls you would always see in Target, so as long as there are toys in the aisles, that’s a reason to be positive, at least for me. But like I was saying, you’ve got a point. While DOTM (in my opinion) still covered an impressive breadth of product, there were definitely less waves of it (We barely got like, what, four waves of Deluxes?). And while my wallet may be happy for the incoming 6-month or so gap of Just Prime toys until new Generations stuff hits, I’ll also be disappointing to have little to check out until then (I may pull like a lot of fans, including myself, did with GI Joe during the gap between Movie and Animated and adopt a ‘placeholder’ toyline in the meantime).

So I guess the question is, what would the solution be? I know a lot of people have been saying that, instead of two or three separate lines to overwhelm retailers with, that Hasbro should just have one blanket ‘Transformers’ line that toys from all current series could be released under. That’s not a bad idea, and it would allow them to put product out that may have missed its old line without having to worry if it fits with the current line or not. On the other hand, it means things would come out slower, with retailers only ordering the then-current case assortments with like 6-8 different figures per, and having to wait until later waves just to get a few new toys from different series.

One thing I think would definitely help would be if Hasbro could figure out online sales to save their life. We all know HasbroToyShop is a joke. Does Hasbro realize that they could have made gangbusters last year had they just sold Windcharger at retail price through an online storefront of some kind? Ditto Rumble and those last few PCCs. It’s a pity Hasbro discontinued those Q&As (as if they ever really read them anyway), people could tell them that stuff like this was a good idea!

Anyway, I’ll just try and stay positive about the whole situation, since that and supporting the brand by buying the stuff I do want is all I can really do. Getting super-upset about stuff like this will do absolutely zilch to change it, so I might as well not let it get to me.

Also, I’m not sure I’d mind the brand pulling another G2 and going into a lull-induced hibernation for a while. Could result in another Beast Wars where they’d be forced to innovate and we’d finally get something truly different again. Transformers kicked ass when I was a kid (yeah, I said it Dom, what’chu’gon’do?) because year after year, I never knew what they were going to turn into next. Regular animals? Robot animals with vehicle bits? Critters mixed together? Alien vehicles with heads and eyes and shit? Even RiD was a wild change since it’d been quite a while since I saw Just Regular Vehicle Transformers. But ennui for robots turning into cars has set in again, and I’d really like to be surprised by the brand again soon.

[Dominic]

The empty shelves circa 2007 were not that bad. Yeah, it was irksome not be be able to get a regular fix. But, we knew that there was more to come. We had every reason to be confident of the franchise surviving and thriving, if only due to the movie. (This of course discounts how well TF was doing *before* the movie. Remember, during the UT, Hasbro got in to the habit of recolouring toys and re-using old moulds just to meet a staggering demand.)

The post G2 lull was something else entirely. You are too young to recall it meaningfully. But, most of us old-timers thought thought that it was "the end of the road" for the hobby. What made it worse was that it was so soon after G2 had (unexpectedly) brought it back for us post G1. (This is probably when the backward elements of the fandom that I was talking about in the now derailed thread took hold.)

Yes, BW was an unexpected treat. And, yes, engineering and design improved greatly over the course of the beast era, (despite my retro-active complaints). But, the property being close to caputsky was the *only* reason those changes and innovations happened. For the franchise to fall that far after the last few years would probably mean that it was fatally wounded, or was soon going to be.

JT's concern is that Hasbro is, either through ineptitude or intention, going to bring TF to the point it was in 1991 or 1994.

None of us want "Transformers", or the fandom, to be reduced to what "Star Trek", and Trekkies, were in the 1970s. The internet would offset some of that. But, it would make some of it worse. The hobby would go from something that you could talk about in the present tense (with consistently new subject matter) to something to be huddled over by covens of fans who would be (by necessity) increasingly concerned with preserving and cataloging what they had in ever increasing isolation.

There is reason that "Trekkie" was a synonym for "outcast", "nerd" and "freak" for so many years.

What toys were these? I'm curious. The tail-end of Cybertron is about where I got back into collecting after about a year-and-a-half off, so I'm wondering what I was potentially looking for (EVERYTHING was new to me, so I didn't have to think about looking for specific things since virtually everything on the shelf, old and new, was a potential purchase).

That last wave or two of Scouts was rare. (These were recolours, but included desirable recolours of the Recon Team.) I am pretty sure that I ended up getting them through Lewis Brooks, who would have ordered an extra set for me. (I know that he did not get his at retail, if he saw them at retail at all.)

The last two waves of Minicon v/x packs, (including the pack from my infamous granny sniping), were scarce. (I did not see a complete ste of wave 4 at any one retailer, and could only put together (maybe) 2 complete sets if I bought everything that I saw. Imagine whole waves of toys that were "Windcharger rare".

The moulding was in the Voyager and Ultra categories, specifically the Gigalonians, along with some desirable recolours in those waves.


Dom
-was angry about that for months.

[BWprowl]

The empty shelves circa 2007 were not that bad. Yeah, it was irksome not be be able to get a regular fix. But, we knew that there was more to come. We had every reason to be confident of the franchise surviving and thriving, if only due to the movie. (This of course discounts how well TF was doing *before* the movie. Remember, during the UT, Hasbro got in to the habit of recolouring toys and re-using old moulds just to meet a staggering demand.)

Well that's what I've been saying about the lull we're experiencing now. Yeah, it sucks that there's apparently been no 'new' toys on shelves for six months, but we know there's more to come.

That last wave or two of Scouts was rare. (These were recolours, but included desirable recolours of the Recon Team.) I am pretty sure that I ended up getting them through Lewis Brooks, who would have ordered an extra set for me. (I know that he did not get his at retail, if he saw them at retail at all.)

Yeah, I never saw that last wave of vs packs, but I grabbed that Stealth Recon Team set easy. Didn't even know you wanted it, or that it was hard to come by; I woulda traded them to you ages ago.

The moulding was in the Voyager and Ultra categories, specifically the Gigalonians, along with some desirable recolours in those waves.

Dom
-was angry about that for months.

The Gigantion guys shelfwarmed all over in my area, I ended up getting all three. Cool toys. Yeah, now I'm sorry I didn't know this was an issue back then, I could've easily picked up spares for you.

[Tigermegatron]

FWIW,3rd party TF toy companies ARE STILL WINNING THE BATTLE,When it comes to creating more accurate updated homages. examples: TFC Hercules,MT Giant,those basic sized G-1 styled insecticons trio. not-springer tripple changer toy. not-arcee's toys. MP conehead seekers with remolded wings,etc......

Except all those things cost more than three times what figures their size are worth. Fuck that. I'm not paying convention prices for Deluxes when Hasbro can do it just as well.

Theirs a huge difference in TF Convention exclusives & 3rd party TF toys..

IMHO,TF Convention exclusives are over priced repaints that some TF fans desire. because some are clearly not happy nor content with just owning one copy of a TF Mold design they like.

3rd party TF toys are 100% new molds that have never been released to retail stores in high volume.

Dude, "Herculues" is ~$600 dollars. I cannot afford that for legitimate figures, never mind custom figures.

Unofficial "Legends" scale figures are $20 or so.

Generally, Hasbro is going to win on price, even if the unofficial toys are a little better.

The only reason that the unofficial figures have any spot in the market is because Hasbro consistently ignores the demand that unofficial manufacturers meet. (In some cases, Hasbro actually seems to be led by unofficial toys, which is *really* unhealthy.)

I have ZERO problems paying the high bucks for pure works of art.

While other TF fans spend their money on extremly tiny TF toys or retail TF toys,I've stopped doing this a long time ago.

I only bought 4 Hasbro Liscensed new mold TF toys in 2011. In 2012,I'm probably gonna be buying about 7 Hasbro liscensed TF new molds.

With all the awesome 3rd party TF toys comming out in 2012. I'd rather get these than what hasbro is offering in 2012.

I'm sick & tired of hasbro's creating all these alternate universe character designs for the G-1 characters in animated,the movie verse & TF Prime.

hasbro refuses to make classics/generations a full blown toy line.

So if hasbro ain't gonna give me my desired 1980's styled TF updated homages. then I'll buy them all from 3rd party TF toy companies.

[Onslaught Six]

This is the kind of thing that put me off the hobby in 2006. It did not matter how good "Classics" was. I was burned out after Hasbro made the tail end of "Cybertron" so difficult to find. (Releasing large toys that retailes will likely avoid and casting them from new moulds that will attract collectors made no sense.)

What toys were these? I'm curious. The tail-end of Cybertron is about where I got back into collecting after about a year-and-a-half off, so I'm wondering what I was potentially looking for (EVERYTHING was new to me, so I didn't have to think about looking for specific things since virtually everything on the shelf, old and new, was a potential purchase).

The last wave of Cybertron was primarily made of the Giant Planet guys, who were (as their name implies) Huge Toys. Quickmix, Menasor, and Megaloplex. Reportedly they were hard to find, but I never had a particular difficulty doing so. Oh, and those Minicon two-packs, but I always considered those a bonus thing. "Nothing else new is out. Hey, new Minicons!"

We all know HasbroToyShop is a joke. Does Hasbro realize that they could have made gangbusters last year had they just sold Windcharger at retail price through an online storefront of some kind? Ditto Rumble and those last few PCCs. It’s a pity Hasbro discontinued those Q&As (as if they ever really read them anyway), people could tell them that stuff like this was a good idea!

That's the thing--Hasbro doesn't actually run HTS. They just contract some other people to run the retail end of it and only buy toys from them. They have to order cases like everyone else.

FWIW,3rd party TF toy companies ARE STILL WINNING THE BATTLE,When it comes to creating more accurate updated homages. examples: TFC Hercules,MT Giant,those basic sized G-1 styled insecticons trio. not-springer tripple changer toy. not-arcee's toys. MP conehead seekers with remolded wings,etc......

Except all those things cost more than three times what figures their size are worth. Fuck that. I'm not paying convention prices for Deluxes when Hasbro can do it just as well.

Theirs a huge difference in TF Convention exclusives & 3rd party TF toys..

IMHO,TF Convention exclusives are over priced repaints that some TF fans desire. because some are clearly not happy nor content with just owning one copy of a TF Mold design they like.

It's been made clear over time that you seriously must not think of Transformers in terms of characters like...everyone else. Many of us buy for character, and not purely for design. For example, I don't look at a repaint and think, "Well, damn, if only I hadn't already bought that mould!" Because he's a different character. What you're describing is literally going, "Damn! If only I hadn't already bought a t-shirt, I'd be able to buy this other t-shirt!"

I have ZERO problems paying the high bucks for pure works of art.

*pfft*

Please excuse my laughter.

So if hasbro ain't gonna give me my desired 1980's styled TF updated homages. then I'll buy them all from 3rd party TF toy companies.

Then you will have very little to discuss with us here.

[BWprowl]

That's the thing--Hasbro doesn't actually run HTS. They just contract some other people to run the retail end of it and only buy toys from them. They have to order cases like everyone else.

That’s kinda my point though: Hasbro needs to actually make an official storefront/gateway to their warehouses available to us. I mean, Mattel may be the 666-faced spawn of the undead nether-Satan, but at least they let you order toys directly through them (although admittedly the toys are in stock on that site about as often as AmiAmi has anything with the words ‘Kamen Rider’ on it in stock, but that’s not the point here!*). But for whatever reason, Hasbro seems really averse to selling toys directly. Even exclusive, fan-only stuff like the Club TF toys or those Exclusive-Subscription GI Joes are being done through Fun Publications and the like. Like I said before, my personal theory is that Hasbro is avoiding the selling-direct-to-consumers market as a show of good faith to retailers that they aren’t going to compete with them, but you’d think it would get to a point (like with Windcharger) where Hasbro would go “Alright, you guys don’t want to order/carry all of our toys? Well we’ll just sell it ourselves! And it’ll be way better, with blackjack, and hookers! In fact, forget the toy sales! And the blackjack!”. Again, something I would’ve liked to ask Hasbro’s people, given the chance.

*

Spoiler

No seriously, one of the main reasons Mattel’s stuff stays so critically understocked on their site is, and this comes from them, that they do not want to hurt the resale value of collectors’ toys. Yes, they are consciously and admittedly supporting scalpers. The people are just…evil.