The Transformers (IDW, formerly "Robots in Disguise")

[JediTricks]

Nah, you talked about all of the stuff that Sparky references in the "More than Meets the Eye" thread. He was just being overly

Spoiler

cautious

with the

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spoiler

text.

That being said

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"quantum duplicate"

is almost as bad as a way to bring somebody back.

If you want to use a 'Trek example, what about the one where there were three Datas in a row and they had to figure out which was the "correct" Data? (Aside, I like how the three just kind of worked out which was the right one, rather than "we must fight for ratings".)

At the time I posted the above, I didn't know that

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Rewind had survived issue 33 and appears to be permanently back

, so yeah, that's a big deal spoiler and I was glad I avoided its confirmation until after I read the issue.

Anyway, that's the last of the MTMTE talk we should be having in this thread. RID had plenty of its own interesting things to talk about. I mean, Wheeljack just learned Megatron was an Autobot!

[andersonh1]

Robots in Disguise #34
I think this series has found its groove again, because this is the second month in a row that I’ve enjoyed the story being told, even if it is another tiresome flashback to ancient Cybertron, which it feels like we get every other issue. The story revolves around Alpha Trion and Optimus Prime traveling to the far side of the moon to have a private conversation about ancient Cybertron and the 13 Primes, and the long lost secret of combination. I’ve griped in the past about making Galvatron an axe-wielding barbarian to fit the current storyline, when that would seem to contradict his past characterization. But this issue almost justifies that, as we see the early alliance between Galvatron and Nova, before he became Nova Prime. The story told has a bit of a mythical feel to it, with Galvatron defeating an army of combiners off-panel, and all sorts of side stories that are “tales in and of themselves” according to Alpha Trion, but “we won’t get into them now”. Instead of the sordid place we keep flashing back to in MTMTE, this issue goes even further back and hints at a Cybertron that had a greatness to it, though it’s clearly winding down. We get Rhinox integrated into IDW Transformers history, though as with the other Beast Wars characters we’ve seen, he’s not the same Rhinox we know.

This issue also leaves us wondering just what really is going on with Prowl on the last page. I suspect being merged with the Constructicons has affected him more than we’ve been told up to this point, but then again it could just be the usual “Prowl is a pretty vile individual” characterization we get from the IDW writers. Good issue.

[Sparky Prime]

The story revolves around Alpha Trion and Optimus Prime traveling to the far side of the moon to have a private conversation about ancient Cybertron and the 13 Primes, and the long lost secret of combination. I’ve griped in the past about making Galvatron an axe-wielding barbarian to fit the current storyline, when that would seem to contradict his past characterization. But this issue almost justifies that, as we see the early alliance between Galvatron and Nova, before he became Nova Prime.

So Galvatron and Nova were around as far back as the 13 Primes? I get Transformers are extremely long-lived, but I've never cared for the idea that some have been around that long, outside of the 13 themselves. I just don't feel such ancient histories that have fallen into mystery and legend really works as well when Transformers that lived in that era are still walking around.

So I take it that means Nova is the first Prime after the 13 as well? Have to say, I was hoping there would be a few before him...

[andersonh1]

So Galvatron and Nova were around as far back as the 13 Primes? I get Transformers are extremely long-lived, but I've never cared for the idea that some have been around that long, outside of the 13 themselves. I just don't feel such ancient histories that have fallen into mystery and legend really works as well when Transformers that lived in that era are still walking around.

Prime and Alpha Trion actually discuss that very issue and note that some Transformers have been around that long and should remember more than they do. There shouldn't be as many myths because people were there at the time. I don't have the book in front of me, but that very concern is raised. We don't really get an answer to the problem though.

So I take it that means Nova is the first Prime after the 13 as well? Have to say, I was hoping there would be a few before him...

I'm not sure he's the first, but he does become a Prime. He isn't one when Galvatron first meets him though.

[Dominic]

Ain't read the last few issues yet. (Been busy. Been budgeting. Been reading other stuff. Probably gonna get caught up on DC books before getting back to RiD. Anyway, here are my thoughts based on this thread.)

This issue also leaves us wondering just what really is going on with Prowl on the last page. I suspect being merged with the Constructicons has affected him more than we’ve been told up to this point, but then again it could just be the usual “Prowl is a pretty vile individual” characterization we get from the IDW writers. Good issue.

Guessing it is a case of Prowl being sort of a bad guy. Before "Dark Cybertron", Barber pointed out (through Prowl) that Prowl was under the control of Bombshell for weeks.....and nobody saw any differences or reasons to be worried. They all figured that Prowl acting like a bad guy was just Prowl acting like Prowl.

(Maybe Barber put that on hold and dialed it back in anticipation of "Dark Cybertron"?)

Prime and Alpha Trion actually discuss that very issue and note that some Transformers have been around that long and should remember more than they do. There shouldn't be as many myths because people were there at the time. I don't have the book in front of me, but that very concern is raised. We don't really get an answer to the problem though.

Most of the really long lived characters (Galvatron, Nova, Tailgate) were either in other dimensions or otherwise out of commission which could extend their lifespan beyond normal (whatever "normal" means for a Cybertronian).

As for myths and legends, consider how much people do not know about the present. Every year or so, there are studies about how people do not know who their elected officials are. There are parts of the US where people cannot describe where they live using normal street numbering. Now, apply those sorts of gaps (inexcusable as you might think they are) over the course of a few years.

Suddenly, facts being clouded out by myth and legend makes a bit more sense, eh?


I am more curious about how Barber handles the Spike/Prowl thing. Hopefully, Barber will reward my curiosity.

[Sparky Prime]

Prime and Alpha Trion actually discuss that very issue and note that some Transformers have been around that long and should remember more than they do. There shouldn't be as many myths because people were there at the time. I don't have the book in front of me, but that very concern is raised. We don't really get an answer to the problem though.

Come to think of it, MTMTE has recently talked about the concept of "information creep", or "blurred data" as Nautica called it, as a means to explain why such long-lived Transformers don't remember events as they should. Stored memories become corrupted and subject to unconscious reinterpretation. It's good that they've addressed that in this issue, but still... I'm just not a fan of the idea that there still are some Transformers alive from the time of the 13 Primes.

Most of the really long lived characters (Galvatron, Nova, Tailgate) were either in other dimensions or otherwise out of commission which could extend their lifespan beyond normal (whatever "normal" means for a Cybertronian).

Well Tailgate was suffering from Cybercrosis which Ratchet said is brought on by old age (and the radiation Cybertron was exposed to didn't help), so despite being out of commission for millions of years, he really wasn't spared from the effects of aging.

[BWprowl]

I'm just not a fan of the idea that there still are some Transformers alive from the time of the 13 Primes.

Is Alpha Trion one of The 13 in this? I know he was listed as one by Hasbro some time back, and they're supposed to be multiversal singularities, but IDW has shown that they really don't care about that sort of thing a lot of the time.

I also really hated it when Hasbro made Alpha Trion one of The 13, so if he manages to not be in this instance, I'll take it.

(Maybe Barber put that on hold and dialed it back in anticipation of "Dark Cybertron"?)

"Prowl's turning heel, guys! For real this time, I mean it! No, wait, come back, I'm really serious, it's totally happening!"

[Sparky Prime]

Is Alpha Trion one of The 13 in this? I know he was listed as one by Hasbro some time back, and they're supposed to be multiversal singularities, but IDW has shown that they really don't care about that sort of thing a lot of the time.

I also really hated it when Hasbro made Alpha Trion one of The 13, so if he manages to not be in this instance, I'll take it.

According to the TFwiki (since I have yet to go to the CBS myself), Alpha Trion introduces himself to Galvatron as the last of the 13 Primes on Cybertron.

[Shockwave]

It's not unreasonable to believe that they might not remember something from so long ago. Heck, even our computer data isn't 100% all the time. Case in point: I had to replace a sd card in my phone this weekend because the one that was in there lost all data and became corrupted. Just out of nowhere. So it basically "forgot" everything I had told it and couldn't accept new information.

[andersonh1]

It's not unreasonable to believe that they might not remember something from so long ago. Heck, even our computer data isn't 100% all the time. Case in point: I had to replace a sd card in my phone this weekend because the one that was in there lost all data and became corrupted. Just out of nowhere. So it basically "forgot" everything I had told it and couldn't accept new information.

How much do we remember from 10, 15, 20 years ago? Major events, sure, but how much of the day to day routine do we simply forget over time? I'm not surprised that millions of years later, some things are pretty foggy even to the Transformers that lived at the time.