The Transformers (IDW, formerly "Robots in Disguise")

The modern comics universe has had such a different take on G1, one that's significantly represented by the Generations toys, so they share a forum. A modern take on a Real Cybertronian Hero. Currently starring Generations toys, IDW "The Transformers" comics, MTMTE, TF vs GI Joe, and Windblade. Oh wait, and now Skybound, wheee!
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JediTricks
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Re: Robots in Diguise (IDW ongoing series)

Post by JediTricks »

Dominic wrote:On page. the reasoning is that Cybertron is in relatively stable hands (popularly elected Starscream and divinely chosen Windblade).
Seriously, you just wrote that Starscream is stable hands, and failing Metroplex being the only sustainable habitat for the entirety of Cybertron while being managed by a single person who can barely communicate with it is "stable hands". And let's not forget the political turmoil from the Autobots letting Megatron off.

Onslaught Six wrote:...How did Alpha Trion get on Earth?

No, you know what, I don't care.
He was looking for Minicons and Cyber Keys and Raw Energon and the creators of the Golden Disk and the source of all the other MacGuffins out there. :roll: :lol:
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See, that one's a camcorder, that one's a camera, that one's a phone, and they're doing "Speak no evil, See no evil, Hear no evil", get it?
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andersonh1
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Re: Robots in Diguise (IDW ongoing series)

Post by andersonh1 »

Onslaught Six wrote:...How did Alpha Trion get on Earth?

No, you know what, I don't care.
I'm glad I"m not the only one who was wondering that! I'm sure there's a reason that will be revealed. Otherwise Prime wouldn't know to go look for him there.
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Re: Robots in Diguise (IDW ongoing series)

Post by andersonh1 »

RID #30
I like the Galvatron cover. And he looks good in the toy colors rather than the mainly purple cartoon-based color scheme.

Okay, my big sticking point in this issue is Galvatron. Since when did he become a dumb brute of a commander? I can buy the bigotry against certain types of Cybertronians, but Galvatron was never this stupid. I think we've got another case of the current writers altering a character's personality to suit their story. The actual action and fighting and Prowl's gambit are fine, though Prime is awfully passive in the face of Prowl's open insubordination. This is the same Prime who took Prowl's command of the Earth mission away from him, isn't it? You'd never know that here. I'm not quite sure who is playing who when it comes to the humans, and hope that it's all spelled out in the end. The Autobots and Decepticons seemingly have straightforward goals. I don't know, this book has lost a lot of the spark that made it compelling when it began. It's not bad, but it's not as good as it has been and should be. Another grade C issue for me.
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Re: Robots in Diguise (IDW ongoing series)

Post by Dominic »

The betrayal and sneakiness angle gets played up to good effect. It looks like I may have been wrong about Prowl's false-flag attack unless Barber intends for Prowl to be playing for a larger hand (in which case Prowl is working under a false flag with Optimus as well). Humans are playing Decepticons. Soundwave is playing Galvatron. Galvatron is too brutish to play anyone.

All well and good.


But, the problematic time-sliding from last issue becomes more pronounced this issue. (It is bad enough that I am tempted to call it "strike 2", even though it is arguably another manifestation of the same problem rather than a new problem.)

The events of the current arc are established to take place 8 years after "All Hail Megatron".

That means one of three things:

-AHM (and the Occupy Movement) happened in '06.
-Occupy happened in '08 and the current arc is set in 2016.
-AHM is set in 2011 and the current arc is set in 2019.

Long:
It is possible that the time-slide is Barber making a clumsy attempt to "pay forward", similar to the 3 year jump at the beginning of Costa's run. (That jump actually worked though, as it covered AHM and Costa's run nicely if one assumed that Costa's run was paid forward and ended in "real time".)

Besides muddying the time-line, the 8 year jump requires "adding" 4 or 5 years to the IDW's TF timeline.....and there is no good place to do it. The technically indeterminate span between Furman's run and "All Hail Megatron" is off limits as the 8 year window has to start with AHM #12.

3 years are accounted for between AHM and Costa's run. How much time should be assumed before "Chaos" (towards the end of Costa's run) while the Autobots are en route to Cybertron? It cannot be more than 6 months (as indicated by the "6 months later" notation for "Dawn of the Autobots"), which leaves 4 years to "fit" someplace.


Short:
IDW's margin of ambiguity on page is about half of the amount of time that they have had the TF license in real time. In terms of percentages of proportion, their timeline is more broken than Marvel's or DC's.



It is not even clear which way the time-sliding is going. There are any number of possible fan-made excuses that could be back-written in as something legitimate. Maybe time "broke" at the end of "Dark Cybertron" and the extra 4 or 5 years are a result of the universe re-expanding or something. But, that would actually sound stupider as a back-write than it does as a fan theory, (which is really saying something because I feel stupider just for having typed it).


IDW not only embraced a problematic cliche of the big two (despite having less practical need to do so, Barber has been exceptionally sloppy about it, despite the fact that he should know better. (The guy is just shy of being an editor and has written enough comics meant to polish over the sort of problems he is causing right now.)



The next issue or 2 need to impress the hell out of me.
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Re: Robots in Diguise (IDW ongoing series)

Post by BWprowl »

Dominic wrote:But, the problematic time-sliding from last issue becomes more pronounced this issue. (It is bad enough that I am tempted to call it "strike 2", even though it is arguably another manifestation of the same problem rather than a new problem.)

The events of the current arc are established to take place 8 years after "All Hail Megatron".

That means one of three things:

-AHM (and the Occupy Movement) happened in '06.
-Occupy happened in '08 and the current arc is set in 2016.
-AHM is set in 2011 and the current arc is set in 2019.

Long:
It is possible that the time-slide is Barber making a clumsy attempt to "pay forward", similar to the 3 year jump at the beginning of Costa's run. (That jump actually worked though, as it covered AHM and Costa's run nicely if one assumed that Costa's run was paid forward and ended in "real time".)

Besides muddying the time-line, the 8 year jump requires "adding" 4 or 5 years to the IDW's TF timeline.....and there is no good place to do it. The technically indeterminate span between Furman's run and "All Hail Megatron" is off limits as the 8 year window has to start with AHM #12.

3 years are accounted for between AHM and Costa's run. How much time should be assumed before "Chaos" (towards the end of Costa's run) while the Autobots are en route to Cybertron? It cannot be more than 6 months (as indicated by the "6 months later" notation for "Dawn of the Autobots"), which leaves 4 years to "fit" someplace.

Short:
IDW's margin of ambiguity on page is about half of the amount of time that they have had the TF license in real time. In terms of percentages of proportion, their timeline is more broken than Marvel's or DC's.

It is not even clear which way the time-sliding is going. There are any number of possible fan-made excuses that could be back-written in as something legitimate. Maybe time "broke" at the end of "Dark Cybertron" and the extra 4 or 5 years are a result of the universe re-expanding or something. But, that would actually sound stupider as a back-write than it does as a fan theory, (which is really saying something because I feel stupider just for having typed it).

IDW not only embraced a problematic cliche of the big two (despite having less practical need to do so, Barber has been exceptionally sloppy about it, despite the fact that he should know better. (The guy is just shy of being an editor and has written enough comics meant to polish over the sort of problems he is causing right now.)
Only Dom could spend this much effort agonizing and analyzing and reviewing a relatively minor editorial detail like the particular date-setting and speed of the passage of time in a comic book rather than reviewing, you know, the actual story.

I find it funny that your biggest 'strikes' against the book are them mentioning that events may have happened particular amounts of years ago, rather than any major storytelling, characterization, or concept faults. You're literally the only person I've ever seen extolling the virtues of the previous alleged 'real-time' scale, claiming that it was a 'selling point'.

Also, Barber isn't 'just shy', he IS an Editor.
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Re: Robots in Diguise (IDW ongoing series)

Post by andersonh1 »

I think the whole timeline problem stems from wanting to reference the Occupy movement. And it's thrown everything off. I just try to ignore it, though I"ll admit the tiny details of worldbuilding are part of the fun of comics, and it's bothersome when they don't line up like they should.
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Re: Robots in Diguise (IDW ongoing series)

Post by Dominic »

Exactly. Given that every detail added to the setting as part of world-building creates the risk of a problem later, it should be done sparingly, and said details should add to the comic in some way. Even if the "Fairborne:Megatron" thing plays out, I am not sure it was worth adding Occupy to the mix.

Only Dom could spend this much effort agonizing and analyzing and reviewing a relatively minor editorial detail like the particular date-setting and speed of the passage of time in a comic book rather than reviewing, you know, the actual story.
It is a question of the writer/editor being competent.

I explain why this is a problem in more detail above.

tl;dr (and "tool long, do not want to rewrite"): Barber should have known enough to avoid this kind of thing and this kind of sloppiness diminishes the book as a whole.
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Re: Robots in Diguise (IDW ongoing series)

Post by Onslaught Six »

I was curious so I asked Barber on Twitter and actually got a response!
https://twitter.com/TheJohnBarber/statu ... 8985518080

Transcribed:

Me: I am a little confused over this '8 years after AHM' thing going on. Care to elaborate? I just don't see how it all fits.
Barber: We're a few years in the future.

So, there's that. Going by "few," I am assuming that we're going with Dom's second option.
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Re: Robots in Diguise (IDW ongoing series)

Post by Shockwave »

So Prowl was definitely flying the false flag. My only gripe with this story so far is the portrayal of Galvatron. I always got before that he was primarily a scientist and was fighting because of the whole Nova Prime/Dead Universe thing. Here, he's being presented as having always been a warrior barbarian with a "Hit first, ask later" mentality. Even Devastator with Prowl as the head comes across as smarter than Galvatron. Either way, I don't see the human/Decepticon alliance lasting long.
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Re: Robots in Diguise (IDW ongoing series)

Post by JediTricks »

RID #30 - A little stuff happens, and then they separate and talk about it. Also some flashbacks to prior times, and Barber decided to tackle head-on what Scott has treated with kid gloves: gender just showed the fuck up in Transformers. To be fair, the gender element is only a notable deal for 2 flashback pages, but from meta perspective, it is interesting to see someone finally take this on directly at IDW. As for as the actual story, it was a decompressed little affair doing a post-mortem on the battle that just happened for all sides. Prowl has changed, and for the interesting, but it and the way that change affected those around him seems like it's still in flux and odd. I'm tiring of Marissa's tough gal stuff, it's so damned over-the-top you have to wonder how she could have ever made command at all, much less in the short time given.

The book also tackles the timeline a little, placing the events of AHM even further back from these than we thought (another year's worth), but since Barber himself said that this story doesn't take place in 2014 but ahead by a few years, that's fine... if only the book itself had said that, then people wouldn't be seeing this as a floating timeline as the wiki thinks it is, but instead it leaves it for the audience to figure out with just a question we asked at Botcon as the answer - looks like we caught the early train on this matter by bringing it to him before the issue hit stands!

The flashback tease has Alpha Trion younger and talking with Galvatron after seeing his brutality, it's the only thing that is really a question-mark in the story worth pursuing right now.

All in all, too decompressed and simplistic, somewhat uneven and lacking a true outcome, and it really doesn't feel like we're going to be done with Earth anytime soon which is a damned shame. I would place this somewhat generously at a: C

andersonh1 wrote:Okay, my big sticking point in this issue is Galvatron. Since when did he become a dumb brute of a commander? I can buy the bigotry against certain types of Cybertronians, but Galvatron was never this stupid. I think we've got another case of the current writers altering a character's personality to suit their story. The actual action and fighting and Prowl's gambit are fine, though Prime is awfully passive in the face of Prowl's open insubordination. This is the same Prime who took Prowl's command of the Earth mission away from him, isn't it? You'd never know that here.
There is this need to repaint Galvatron as a barbarian, this was brought up at Botcon and I didn't really see where it was coming from. Galvatron had been shown as crazy and brutal, but not a dumb rage brute. I don't even think Barber is trying to rewrite Galvatron as a character, but as an entire idea - he's ancient and therefore a barbarian throwback.

As for Prime and Prowl's changes, they have each gone through some shit lately, that I will reserve judgement of.

Dom wrote:The betrayal and sneakiness angle gets played up to good effect. It looks like I may have been wrong about Prowl's false-flag attack unless Barber intends for Prowl to be playing for a larger hand (in which case Prowl is working under a false flag with Optimus as well). Humans are playing Decepticons. Soundwave is playing Galvatron. Galvatron is too brutish to play anyone.
Glad you recognized that about the false-flag angle being not the case and said as much, it's the first thing I took note of when we got to that point in the story. Your angle would have worked here just as well, but they went another way. I'm not interested in them having a double-bluff there though, that would not be a false flag on the Earthlings at that point, Prowl's stated goals were still achieved either way and didn't play either faction up or down, so if they pull a cheat later and go back on that to make it a false flag, it'll be lame.

Soundwave is playing Galvatron? How do you figure? I am still a little annoyed at the stupid that is the humans playing the New 'Cons, that was such a dumb thing because it's what I said earlier: nonsensical to lure your enemy into a trap when you could have eliminated them at their weakest at the outset. But I'm not seeing Soundwave playing Galvatron, or I forgot something.
It is not even clear which way the time-sliding is going. There are any number of possible fan-made excuses that could be back-written in as something legitimate. Maybe time "broke" at the end of "Dark Cybertron" and the extra 4 or 5 years are a result of the universe re-expanding or something. But, that would actually sound stupider as a back-write than it does as a fan theory, (which is really saying something because I feel stupider just for having typed it).
No, it's not Dark Cybertron, Barber was saying some of it was in RID/MTMTE having longer-than-seemed storytelling, so the 22 pre-Dark Cybertron issues are not 22 months but longer, and some of it was expanded time in the Costa run and AHM, I believe.
IDW not only embraced a problematic cliche of the big two (despite having less practical need to do so, Barber has been exceptionally sloppy about it, despite the fact that he should know better. (The guy is just shy of being an editor and has written enough comics meant to polish over the sort of problems he is causing right now.)
You do realize he IS an editor, he's been an editor since before he was at IDW even. Also you have a nested parenthesis without a closing parenthesis and no need for either.
The next issue or 2 need to impress the hell out of me.
He said it's a 5-part series, so I will ride out this run and the next book after, so that's 3 more issues I guess, but I am definitely not feeling it yet either, and "hey, they're talking about disguises again" is not enough to somehow going to get me to keep buying a book.

Onslaught Six wrote:I was curious so I asked Barber on Twitter and actually got a response!
https://twitter.com/TheJohnBarber/statu ... 8985518080

Transcribed:

Me: I am a little confused over this '8 years after AHM' thing going on. Care to elaborate? I just don't see how it all fits.
Barber: We're a few years in the future.

So, there's that. Going by "few," I am assuming that we're going with Dom's second option.
I swear to god, you posted this exactly at the time I was writing up my notes from Botcon which included his lengthy answer, that killed me.

Shockwave wrote:So Prowl was definitely flying the false flag. My only gripe with this story so far is the portrayal of Galvatron. I always got before that he was primarily a scientist and was fighting because of the whole Nova Prime/Dead Universe thing. Here, he's being presented as having always been a warrior barbarian with a "Hit first, ask later" mentality. Even Devastator with Prowl as the head comes across as smarter than Galvatron. Either way, I don't see the human/Decepticon alliance lasting long.
No no, Prowl isn't pulling a false flag move, it's an honest move, it isn't casting aspersions on another group so much as unveiling truths.

As for your point about Galvatron, I haven't read as much but it seemed that way to me too. And while Starscream proves that one can be a scientist AND brutal dictator, the shift isn't so wildly out of character as it is with Galvatron.
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See, that one's a camcorder, that one's a camera, that one's a phone, and they're doing "Speak no evil, See no evil, Hear no evil", get it?
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