TF Views

andersonh1 wrote:So this artifact is, of course, on Earth? We already had one Macguffin there in the form of ore-13, and Earth wasn't unique in being seeded by Shockwave's ores. Two is pushing it a bit. But I suppose it depends on what it is and why it's there.

Yeah, that would seem to be what they're suggesting. I think it's funny you say two Macguffin's on Earth is pushing it. Not that I disagree. It's just both Transformers: Prime and the live action films made Earth a dumping ground for lost Cybertronian Macg-er, I mean relics. Prime especially over did it with the show becoming little more than a relic hunt fest.

Dominic wrote:The whole theme of this are looks to be "treachery and back-stabbery". It is a safe bet that Barber will reveal (by part 4 likely, part 6 at the latest) that the humans were only playing along to get something from Galvatron and his crew. The humans cannot trust the Transformers, and the Transformers (likely including Thundercracker) cannot trust the humans.

So what you're saying is they're going to kill Thundercracker again.

It's still really, really dumb to believe there's anything to be gained by letting the Decepticons think they're the humans' allies though. It's like getting all muscled up over the summer, then handing your lunch money over to the bully willingly as soon as you see him on the bus stop - that'll show him!

Considering that Prowl is engaging in what is basically a false-flag attack, he is technically still in disguise. (Aside from a few faction switcher characters, "false-flag" tactics are suprisingly rare in "Transformers" over-all, especially given that their whole gimmick is trickery and disguise.)

No, the disguise is over, the false-flag aspect is done, it is now an ambush.

Sparky Prime wrote:

andersonh1 wrote:So this artifact is, of course, on Earth? We already had one Macguffin there in the form of ore-13, and Earth wasn't unique in being seeded by Shockwave's ores. Two is pushing it a bit. But I suppose it depends on what it is and why it's there.

Yeah, that would seem to be what they're suggesting. I think it's funny you say two Macguffin's on Earth is pushing it. Not that I disagree. It's just both Transformers: Prime and the live action films made Earth a dumping ground for lost Cybertronian Macg-er, I mean relics. Prime especially over did it with the show becoming little more than a relic hunt fest.

Yeah, as much as I enjoyed Prime, they really overdid the "Cybertronian relics on Earth" angle.

I am not even happy about this comic, but I am defending it.

So what you're saying is they're going to kill Thundercracker again.

Thundercracker is either going to get stabbed in the back or something will happen to harm him (likely by kiling his dog).

It's still really, really dumb to believe there's anything to be gained by letting the Decepticons think they're the humans' allies though. It's like getting all muscled up over the summer, then handing your lunch money over to the bully willingly as soon as you see him on the bus stop - that'll show him!

It is more like buying the bully lunch, and lacing it with poison. The humans think that they can get one over on the Decepticons and the Decepticons think they can get one over on the humans.

It will probably go badly for the both of them.

No, the disguise is over, the false-flag aspect is done, it is now an ambush.

Except, that is exactly what Prowl is doing.

Prowl is jumping out as (part of) Devastator. He is effectively disguised as the big green asshole who stomped on NYC and killed a bunch of people at some inconsistent point in the past (fucking time-slide....grumble).

The Decepticons and Skywatch (or whatever they are called) are working together on the down-low. It is in both of their interests (regardless of their intentions to screw each other over) to keep things quiet. Prowl committing an overtly violent act as Devastator in a populated area effectively tells the world that the Decepticons are back in town. (Nobody in that town is going to look at the big green murder machine and think "that is an Autobot combined with a Decepticon merge team". They are going to think "holy shit, big green asshole is back".)

Acting overtly while assuming the heraldry or identity of another party (in this case the Decepticons) is the very definition of a false-flag attack.

The Decepticons have more to lose by being revealed than the Autobots do. If Prowl and the Autobots can maintain the ruse (which dramatic necessity makes unlikely), they can undermine Decepticon interests.

Yeah, as much as I enjoyed Prime, they really overdid the "Cybertronian relics on Earth" angle.

Yeah, RiD is definitely feeling more like a big 2 book than it should.


Random thoughts:

-somebody on another board (IDW I think) pointed out that Fairborne being part of Occupy (and ostensibly pacifist) echoes Megatron's change from relatively benign agitator to violent demagogue. If this plays out, then it will partially mitigate the timeslide.

Objectively, the timeslide is not "that bad" for the comic industry. About a decade ago, I more or less ignored a more severe time-slide in the "GI Joe" comics. (That one not only blurred the passage of time, it actually reversed time for several characters.) But, over the last 10 or so years, my standards have gone up.

Dominic wrote:

It's still really, really dumb to believe there's anything to be gained by letting the Decepticons think they're the humans' allies though. It's like getting all muscled up over the summer, then handing your lunch money over to the bully willingly as soon as you see him on the bus stop - that'll show him!

It is more like buying the bully lunch, and lacing it with poison. The humans think that they can get one over on the Decepticons and the Decepticons think they can get one over on the humans.

It will probably go badly for the both of them.

The goal of poison is to kill someone without them knowing you're doing it. The reason to have them not know you're doing it is either to avoid repercussions or because you don't think you could withstand a direct assault if they found out you were hostile. The humans believe they can now withstand a direct assault and kill the hell out of the Decepticons, there are also less Decepticons than ever to worry about. And there are no repercussions in this case. So I'm not seeing it still.

No, the disguise is over, the false-flag aspect is done, it is now an ambush.

Except, that is exactly what Prowl is doing.

Prowl is jumping out as (part of) Devastator. He is effectively disguised as the big green asshole who stomped on NYC and killed a bunch of people at some inconsistent point in the past (fucking time-slide....grumble).

The Decepticons and Skywatch (or whatever they are called) are working together on the down-low. It is in both of their interests (regardless of their intentions to screw each other over) to keep things quiet. Prowl committing an overtly violent act as Devastator in a populated area effectively tells the world that the Decepticons are back in town. (Nobody in that town is going to look at the big green murder machine and think "that is an Autobot combined with a Decepticon merge team". They are going to think "holy shit, big green asshole is back".)

Acting overtly while assuming the heraldry or identity of another party (in this case the Decepticons) is the very definition of a false-flag attack.

The Decepticons have more to lose by being revealed than the Autobots do. If Prowl and the Autobots can maintain the ruse (which dramatic necessity makes unlikely), they can undermine Decepticon interests.

Ok, I see how you got there. Of course, that's assuming that is Prowl's strategy, which I didn't catch but surely could be the case. The way I read it, Prowl was only exposing that the Cybertronians have returned, but you very well could be right that he's exposing that the Decepticons have returned by showing up as Devastator.

-somebody on another board (IDW I think) pointed out that Fairborne being part of Occupy (and ostensibly pacifist) echoes Megatron's change from relatively benign agitator to violent demagogue. If this plays out, then it will partially mitigate the timeslide.

Interesting idea.

Objectively, the timeslide is not "that bad" for the comic industry. About a decade ago, I more or less ignored a more severe time-slide in the "GI Joe" comics. (That one not only blurred the passage of time, it actually reversed time for several characters.) But, over the last 10 or so years, my standards have gone up.

I still feel like they're close enough that an alternate universe where this comic story took place could have it happen a few years earlier. It's sloppy but not the disaster you first presented it as, IMO.

JediTricks wrote:Prowl's strategy, which I didn't catch but surely could be the case. The way I read it, Prowl was only exposing that the Cybertronians have returned, but you very well could be right that he's exposing that the Decepticons have returned by showing up as Devastator.

I figured he was doing a bit of both, going public with the fact that Transformers were on Earth (exposing the Decepticons who were specifically discussing that they had to remain in vehicle form to avoid being exposed) and by showing up as Devastator, who surely made quite an impression trashing NYC. A two for one strategy, as it were.

Prowl also "attacks" Autobots when he appears as (part of) Devastator, creating an opportunity for the Autobots to publicly display a willingness to fight Decepticons. (Not sure if Barber is going to write Optimus as smart enough to make that move though.)

Barber is definitely going for a "dirty war" angle.

I still feel like they're close enough that an alternate universe where this comic story took place could have it happen a few years earlier. It's sloppy but not the disaster you first presented it as, IMO.

The minute "alternate universe" logic comes in to play as a post-hoc explanation (especially as a fan-explanation), assume that the writer fucked up.

The simple fact is that time-slides are a common problem for an industry that is pitching towards fans who generally do not like change. Time-slides that end up rooting the comic to a specific moment in time have been inexcusable since circa 1980 (when Marvel first started obviously struggling with the passage of time).

The Occupy:Megatron logic will partly mitigate the problem (as it is at least idea-based). But, even then, Barber (who has practical experience as an editor) should have known better.

No two ways around it, the time-slide is "strike one" for this book, as it is not only a down grade (for a book that had not had any timeslides/scaling) but a sloppily handled down-grade.

(For those keeping score: "Earth 2" has two strikes. "More than Meets the Eye" has none. "Iron Man" also has none. But, Gillen leaving the book makes that a moot point, and creates a spot for "Multiversity" in August.)

I would argue coming to Earth with such political turmoil and lack of information on Cybertron is strike one for this book.

On page. the reasoning is that Cybertron is in relatively stable hands (popularly elected Starscream and divinely chosen Windblade). Prime and his guys have to look for Gandalpha Trion, who is very important and just happens to be on Earth.


When posting a valid defense of a plot-point makes me doubt why I am reading a comic, (because it sounds like everything stupid about comics), there is a problem.


Have not read this week's issue yet. (Various "Avengers" books were more interesting.) But,the next issue (following up on a dangling thread from Costa's run), might make or break "Robots in Disguise", and determine if I keep it on my pull-list or not.

("Iron Man" is probably going to make room for "Mulitversity". But, if I keep "Earth 2", and pick up that weekly companion book for "Earth 2", I might want to drop at least one more book.....)

...How did Alpha Trion get on Earth?

No, you know what, I don't care.