TF Views

Holy shit, I just finished DC chapter 5 and I honestly can say I hate this series. This is a pastiche of bad comic book event cliches. Characters returning from the dead. Enemies teaming up. Overwhelming odds against ridiculous, "universe-altering" events. Multi-arc storytelling that merely spins its wheels issue after issue as it struggles to figure out what it's trying to say. Tertiary characters dying. Status-quo shake-upping. Characterizations getting swapped. Old, outdated plot points getting revisited.

I also can't stand the art, beyond the inconsistency of it and the off-model characters, a lot has been muddy and poorly-expressed to the point where I have to reread pages to see what happened. Last night it was Frenzy getting beat upon, we see the aftermath as a minor story point and then I had to go back and find the singular panel where it shows this because it was wildly incongruous.

But it's the shallowness of it all that really gets to me. I don't give a shit about what's happening, it's just out-of-control nonsense that feels meaningless. This used to be a pair of series I could hold up as "Transformers is really good, it's got ideas" and now it's almost shamefully bad. I'm close to dropping the series altogether, a few tiny moments across 5 issues - that's $20 - surrounded by material ruining the actual series is not a fun read.

Spoiler

So Metalhawk returns from the dead thanks to a magical nuclear-type blast emanating from the Metrozombie that kills a bunch of folks, triggered by Starscream merely landing on the Metrotitan. Metalhawk immediately wakes up and goes on a mission to retrieve Megatron's body and deliver it to Shockwave, and then act as Shockwave's minion. None of this is in character for Metalhawk, none of it is even remotely faction-appropriate for Metalhawk, and none of it is remotely explained.

Fuck that shit!

Shockwave wrote:Also, we all knew when Kup went into the DU that he would be coming back at some point, strictly for the reason that he wasn't actually dead. And I'm wondering why it's called the Dead Universe when every damned thing that goes in there winds up coming back perfectly alive and well anyway. I also don't see how this story is going to resurrect anyone who isn't on Cybertron. Thrust, Ramjet and Scrapper died on Earth and I didn't see the Decepticons carrying corpses with them when they left. At worst, I could see Ore 14 getting wide use on Cybertron which could result in some characters returning, but I honestly think more characters are going to wind up dead before that happens.

I still don't understand the Dead Universe at all. As someone newer to the IDW universe, the Dead Universe has been poorly explained and, like you said, seems to be only a place for "dead" characters to be alive again, and then they pop out of the oven fine.

Dom wrote:We cannot call it a forced event until it is over. IDW could suprise us. It is only a nosedive if this actually plays out the way we fear. (IDW knows how it will end. They have already planned, if not written, the end of "Dark Cybertron".)

You know what, Dom? Until you actually read any of it, your opinion isn't going to carry much weight on that one.

And as for planning, if not writing, the end of Dark Cybertron... it doesn't even feel like they've planned the middle of it yet, we're 5 stories in and it's still pretty much all smashing together trying to figure itself out.

If it were just a question of RiD, I would tell you to be patient. "Dark Cybertron" could easily be fodder for RiD to build on. But, the fact that "More than Meets the Eye" is being so completely derailed (with the characters returning to Cybertron and such) is cause for concern.

They've officially killed RID with the mess that D.C. 4 and 5 pulled, so any rebuilding from there is just paving over the legwork that came before. As for MTMTE, they actually seem to be setting up the idea that Rodimus is making a case for going back out there, but with this connection it permanently alters the focus of going back out there.

Sometimes, an event comic is a good read. I liked "the Siege". It nicely wrapped up "Dark Avengers" and the fights were properly scaled. I just tried to ignore the obvious resets it was preparing readers for. Similarly, "Secret Invasion" had its fun moments.

You were wrong about The Siege IMO, wildly wrong. Dark Avengers was woefully decompressed and The Siege was overly compressed and underwhelming.

Sparky wrote:Except it's not been immune at all. They were pulling that sort of cliche back when Furman was writing for the series.

That's why I was referring to the RID/MTMTE lines, and not reading the Furman series.

Dom wrote:Barber may have been planning this from the

Spoiler

point he killed Metalhawk in the first place

. So, this, much like our (more idle) speculation about Thundercracker will be a question of "wait and see". But, yeah, things are looking ominous for me dropping this book at some point next year.

I would highly doubt

Spoiler

Metalhawk's return of this manner is planned, it feels entirely out of sorts with his character, if this is all it was building to then it's a massive miss, if he was always a turncoat it's some terrible and woefully inconsistent characterization.

-now to talk about "Re-Generation One", which I do not plan to be reading by spring of next year.

You mean because it's ending? No, of course you don't, that'd make sense.

Anderson wrote:- Ultra Minimus talks differently now. His "voice" has changed, and I don't think it's just my perception of the character that's causing me to say that.

Everybody in the series talks differently, it's really annoying. Some are caricatures of themselves and some are just random. They had Magnus explain why he's talking differently, but it's still awkward. Then again, having him speak so rigidly before also was a caricature, but MTMTE was more flexible with his actual writing to make up for that.

The story continues as a sort of continuity clean-up, with Cyclonus' time in the Dead Universe referenced (and it's not looking good for him either, at the moment). The twist with Nightbeat is unfortunate, but makes for a good cliffhanger ending.

You and I have a very different opinion of what a good cliffhanger ending is. "All the heroes get shot and killed, what happens next???" is not a plausible cliffhanger, obviously they're not killing Orion and Rodimus.

With Nightbeat and cliffhangers, I'm referring to him still being under the control of Galvatron/Nova Prime. I didn't see that coming. Maybe I should have, but I expected the hole in his head to clear out the rewiring or something.

JediTricks wrote:

Sparky wrote:Except it's not been immune at all. They were pulling that sort of cliche back when Furman was writing for the series.

That's why I was referring to the RID/MTMTE lines, and not reading the Furman series.

Ah, well because you'd said "this IDW line", that gave me the impression you were talking about the IDW line in general, not specifically just the MTMTE/RID series.

Well, I am over a month late to this particular party, and have only read the first 3 chapters. (I will most likely be referring to the individual issues as chapters of "Dark Cybertron" rather than as parts of the respective regular titles for the sake of expedience.)

So far, it is a mixed bag. I am cautiously optimistic about where this is going. But, I have definite cause for concern.

The deluxe edition of the first book-end issue includes significant creator notes. Barber and Roberts compare "Dark Cybertron" to the original "Crisis on Infinite Earths", which could either be promising (in that it will be an event story that leads to a significant change in direction for the book) or worrisome (in that it will be a big stupid event). Their later comparisons to "Secret Wars" makes me think it could be the latter.

There are significant re-writes from Barber and Roberts regarding the Dead Universe and the original Ark crew (Nova et al). These are not the first re-writes from Barber and Roberts on those topics. And, there are likely more to come. A certain amount of back-writing is necessary in comics.

But, in this case, the back-writes seem to have less in common with basic necessity (Marvel's back-written origin for 1950s Captain America) and more in common with the writers just wanting to "fix" something (like Byrne's f*ck*ng $h@t f*ck coproma of a run on "West Coast Avengers").

Similarly,

Spoiler

Kup's return

(which I know about, despite not having read yet) is likely to functionally undo

Spoiler

"Infestation"

.

I do not have any real attachment to any of the things that Barber and Roberts are back-writing. (Truth be told, I did not much like the comics that will now have asterisked qualifiers attached to them.) But, I dislike back-writes on principle. Re-sets (such as "Crisis on Infinite Earths" or "Flashpoint") are necessary to steamline long-running properties. But, big events that end up showing how a previously published series either did not happen as shown or functionally undo a previous series by leaving a prevously changed character more "like they were" are junk. (Given how event driven comics are, undoing the events functionally devalues the comics in narrative terms.)

Time, the remaining chapters, will tell if "Dark Cybertron" will be more significant for what it does or what it undoes.

The reveal

Spoiler

about Megatron joining the Autobots

after "Dark Cybertron" gives me some reason for optimism. But, if too much of the previous run ends up being undone (either through back-writing or just having characters "restored") I am not likely to be interested in

Spoiler

Megatron's changed allegience

.

The more dead characters that get raised or other (earlier) status quo elements that get restored, the less interested I am going to be in IDW's TF comics.


On a more basic note, the art is problematic. Using different artists (with clearly different styles) to indicate scene changes is good. I expect modern comics to at least attempt something at this moderate level of sophistication. However, I also expect it to be done well. If a book is going to use 2 or more art teams to indicate changes in time or setting, the teams much be consistent. IDW has been making liberal use of fill-in artists, which throws off the idea that a specific artist's work indicates a specific setting. While this is not overly problematic as part of a single issue, it will make the compilations read less smoothly.

I think you're worrying for nothing. I don't see anything that has been undone or back written. Kup's "death" was never shown, it was assumed because he went back in time to the beginning of the Dead Universe. We never saw what happened to him, so I never assumed he was dead because we're talking about a species that is prone to living for millions of years being sent into a universe that, in spite of being called "dead" sure seems to have a lot of survivors living in it. Nova Prime and Galvatron have been permanent residents there for millions of years so why would we just assume that Kup wouldn't survive? His appearance isn't a back write, it's wrapping up a previously unresovled plot point. And that's really what "Dark Cybertron" seems to be doing: Tying up loose ends so that IDW can move forward with whatever new direction they want to go with this. Honestly, I'm excited by the Megatron cover because I want to see what they do with it and how that works out. It's certainly better, or at least more interesting, than Megatron going back to status quo "Leader for the Decepticons".

Shockwave wrote:in spite of being called "dead" sure seems to have a lot of survivors living in it.

Sorta. It's been explained that the rules of life and death are somewhat reversed in the dead universe. So all of those survivors actually died at some point, but in the dead universe they're alive.

And that's really what "Dark Cybertron" seems to be doing: Tying up loose ends so that IDW can move forward with whatever new direction they want to go with this.

Yeah, I'd have to agree. They've touched on a lot of story elements going all the way back to when IDW first launched the Transformers title. I hope this wraps up the dead universe stuff once and for all. I'm tired of them revisiting it with each big event.

Sparky Prime wrote:I hope this wraps up the dead universe stuff once and for all. I'm tired of them revisiting it with each big event.

Me too! It just seems like a catch all "kitchen sink" for anything they need to magically pull out of their asses. I was never really that jazzed about it as a concept to begin with.

Did they ever properly explain the Dead Universe? I felt like it was a plotline that Furman was really building up, and then it came to nothing.

andersonh1 wrote:Did they ever properly explain the Dead Universe? I felt like it was a plotline that Furman was really building up, and then it came to nothing.

Yeah, IDW decided to replaced Furman before he finished developing it. He ended up quickly wrapping up the plotline so whatever he had originally intended never came to be. It's never really been explained, but I'd sorta say it's like IDW's version of Unicron, being a thing that wants to invade/destroy the living universe.