TF Views

Tigermegatron wrote:Coupled with,the majority weren't well known/iconic actors/actresses like the episode IV,V & VI movies had.

At the time they made those movies, a lot of them weren't all that iconic either. George Lucas wanted relatively unknown actors for the majority of the roles.

The Dark Knight Rises - just ruins the first 2 for me. I haven't seen either since because the way the Nolan boys must have pictured Batman/Bruce Wayne when they wrote those first 2 is decidedly different from what it seemed.

Star Wars Episode 1, 2, and 3 - let's take a classic trilogy and SHIT ALL OVER IT WITH MOVIES ABOUT TRADE EMBARGOES AND TEEN ROMANCE.

Star Trek Generations - even the writers know they fucked it up. Just wrong-headed.

Star Trek Nemesis - "It's like wrath of Khan but extreme!" yeah, suckadick.

New Coke Trek and its afterbirth.

Batman Returns, Batman Forever, Batman & Robin - yeah, I'm calling out Batman Returns, I know that's not a popular take but the movie is woefully indulgent and that self-indulgence not only hamstrung the character arcs in it but is what opened the door for misinterpreting it into the campy follow-ups.

Indy 4 - or rather, the shitty version of Indy 4 that Lucas demanded, it looked like there were good takes and ideas lost in the edit, but the last act is a piece of trash so there really wasn't salvation anyway.

Anderson wrote:I liked Terminator 2, but I do wonder if the series should have ended there. The first Terminator is good, but hobbled by the low budget. T2 lets us enjoy the story and concepts with a proper budget and effects.

Yeah, of course that's where it should have ended, that's the very point of the film exactly as you spelled it out. The first Terminator is also hobbled by a simplistic concept, while the second grows the ideas to exactly the right size.

O6 wrote:Wrong! The low budget keeps it focused. I love T1 and T2 but T2 gets really bogged and slowed down in the middle there with all that Dyson stuff. I know what it's there to further the story and all, but I can't help but feel like there could've been a way to speed it up and tighten it up.

The Dyson stuff is meant to give weight to the unseen villain of the film. Also, it humanizes and presents the danger of the T-800.

Shock wrote:Alright, I'm gonna have to school all of you. I worked at Blockbuster for 4 1/2 years and let me tell you: I've seen some shit. REAL shit.

Holy crap, I worked in local LA and Phoenix video stores for several years as well, '91 through '94. I'm not sure your list is fair though, you dump on horror when horror is already a dump.

Vampire in Brooklyn: Fuck that, I don't need to elaborate.

AHAHAHAH! I can give you that one. Eddie Murphy's real start to his decline.

Natural Born Killers is my 3rd least favorite movie ever.

Glad I didn't go to your store, it's not a great film the way some prop it up, but it's hardly that bad. If Ollie Stone's name hadn't been so prominent, it'd have been just a well-made piece of silliness.

Jacob's Ladder is my second least favorite.

The fact that you didn't have "The Lawnmower Man" alongside this makes me sad.

and first is some movie I don't know the title of. It was on late at night on HBO and had no plot, no discernible characters, and looked like someone's acid trip put on film.

Shit like that doesn't matter though, Andy Warhol had tons of footage devoted to shit like that and they don't matter as movies, they mattered as a statement but as movies they're not worth caring about. "Boxing Helena" is like the other side of that coin, movies that are pointless tripe meant to make a buck and get a boner off the foreign market, mainly, but since they don't matter... they don't matter.

Alien Resurrection

I'll take that over Alien3 any day.

Austin Powers Goldmember

FUCK YEAH RIGHT! That was such a disappointment.

The last X Files movie

Which is why my instincts were stuck-with, I didn't go see it.

And that was just from page 1!

Now see, y'all want to hate on Batman and Robin, but I'd watch that over the Burton Batman movies any day of the week and twice on Sundays. I was explaining the difference between the two to a friend that hadn't seen any of 'em, and it went like this: "One of 'em has Gotham all lit up with neon craziness, and black light painted gang to fight, a sense of humor, and Uma Thurman in a skintight suit. The other's all black and bullshitty and Batman's got damn machine guns on the Batmobile." It's worth noting, though, that my favorite Batmen are Adam West and Deidrich Bader, so that's where I'm coming from. Also, when I say I'd watch Batman and Robin over the Burton movies, I mean all the Burton movies. Even before he just started doing remakes of shit with Johnny Depp in stupid makeup, I was over that guy. Though I did like his Planet of the Apes, but then, I'm a sucker for movies with monkeys.

I'll go ahead and defend Jason X, too, because I love it to death and beyond. Here's the thing with Jason X. It's ridiculous in it's way, but it plays the ridiculousness well. It's kind of like if Genghis Khan were to show up in New York or wherever. Timeframe be damned, Genghis gonna Genghis. A friend of mine that also puts too much thought into these kinds of thing argues that they should always just be Jason Jasoning in Crystal Lake, and while he has a point, there's eight other movies like that already. I don't know, the robot fighting scene, the holodeck scene, and just Space Jason in general really made the movie for me. Plus the fact that he stayed dead until some teenagers started getting it on.

Actually, I have a fairly dumb theory about Jason X. So the ninth movie sends Jason to Hell, where we presume he's to be eternally tortured. The tenth opens up with him incarcerated in a supermax prison, presumably having spent some time having his superhuman recovery tested to hell and gone. So, pretty much, lab tortured. He escapes through sheer force of will, only to be frozen for a few hundred years. And if Demolition Man is to be believed, he was probably aware of it the whole time. Then he gets on the spaceship, and it gets so friggin' hard for him to kill people. He decapitates at least two people that just shake that off like it was no thing. He gets the living bejesus blasted out of him by the robot girl. He...well, he does get to wreck a space station, that's pretty amazing. But he has the hardest time he ever has in any movie getting someone to just goddamn die, already. It's this close to being like Jack the Ripper in that Ellison story. Then Jason vs. Freddy picks up with Jason getting out of Hell. So what can we infer? Jason X may well have been Mr. Voorhees' eternal torments playing out for our entertainment.

As for movies I'd just erase, I dunno. Movies I'd change history so I'd have never seen them go like:

Burton's Alice in Wonderland: What a lazy piece of crap. Nothing interesting was done visually, everything that would happen with the story was just spelled out from the beginning. When we first started dating my wife wanted to go see it. I was underwhelmed, but at least it made me realize that I just shouldn't see any more Depp or Burton movies, so there's that.

Cowboys Vs. Aliens: Again, nothing happened here. Just boring.

All three Austin Powers movies. I mean, the first one had something going for it, but it got old so fast that I was tired of the schtick by the end of it.

That Grinch movie. Good lord, why did I see that? Why did the Grinch need a tragic origin? Why did I watch a Jim Carrey movie? Just why any of it?

I never actually saw the remake of The Day the Earth Stood Still, but that's gotta be the least necessary remake that ever existed. And I'm generally not that against remakes, but c'mon. C'mon.

I haven't seen Ender's Game, either, but since Orson Scott Card's making a couple bucks off it, I'm against it in principle. Ironically, my wife, who's even more liberal than I am, and a couple of our gay friends want to see it eventually. I dunno. I was okay with Indy 4, but this makes me lose some respect for Harrison Ford.

Yeah the Day the Earth Stood Still remake was terrible. There was very little referrencing the original. It didn't have the same plot or anything, it... just blows.

Also, the Big Lebowski. The film itself would be actually pretty good if it actually had an ending! Seriously, I was watching it recently and the credits seriously start rolling before ANY of the plot points are resolved. Don't get me wrong, the movie's funny, well acted and directed, but the end just feels like the director just quit one day and said "Fuck it, roll credits, we're done!" WTF? Seriously, another like ten minutes would make this film a masterpiece.

138 Scourge wrote: That Grinch movie. Good lord, why did I see that? Why did the Grinch need a tragic origin? Why did I watch a Jim Carrey movie? Just why any of it?

Hell yes. I don't know how I managed to sit through that whole thing, but my eyeballs and my brain felt like they had been punished. It was because of the Grinch, that I stayed far far away from Mike Meyers Cat in the Hat. Nowadays, I won't go near any modern Dr. Seuss movies, live or animated.

About Grievous- it's funny, but I was completely bored during SW ep 3. The only thing that made me go, "Oh shit!!" and sit up in my seat was when Grievous started spinning his four lightsabers like lawnmowers. That was so badass. I'd hire him to do my lawn any day. But then Kenobi blocks it like it was nothing and screws him up. So much for that.

All Home Alone sequels- I only ever saw the first 2, but I'm lumping in all the others cuz I'm sure they suck too. Part 2 was really bad about recycling everything from part 1. Same kid. Same crooks. Got a creepy person that turns out to be friendly and helpful. Yadda yadda yadda. It was like watching part 1 all over again.

PredatorS- This movie left me feeling nothing. I didn't like it. I didn't hate it. I felt absolutely nothing for it. There were so many homages to the original Predator, that for the entire length of the movie, I was constantly being reminded that I could be watching a superior movie. But instead I had to settle for Topher Grace and Adrien Brody. Never again.

Alien 3- One of my pet peeves is when Hollywood takes someone's happy ending and shits all over it. Aliens had a triumphant ending. Alien 3 took all of Ripley's victories and snatched them away. Thanks, guys. Let's see- Hicks is dead, Bishop is offline, Newt is dead. Oh, and Ripley's got an alien inside her just waiting to burst. Was someone feeling nihilistic, when they wrote this? Goddam.

Alien Resurrection- Is it a satire? Is it a joke? What is this thing? I'll tell you what it is- it's about 2 hours too long.

JediTricks wrote: The Dark Knight Rises - just ruins the first 2 for me. I haven't seen either since because the way the Nolan boys must have pictured Batman/Bruce Wayne when they wrote those first 2 is decidedly different from what it seemed.

Batman Returns, Batman Forever, Batman & Robin - yeah, I'm calling out Batman Returns, I know that's not a popular take but the movie is woefully indulgent and that self-indulgence not only hamstrung the character arcs in it but is what opened the door for misinterpreting it into the campy follow-ups.

I enjoyed the Chris Nolan Three batman movies better than the Tim Burton Batman movies.

The Thing I dislike most about almost all the movies Tim Burton has done,Is how he tries to inject the evil clown/circus/goth-ghetto/nightmarish vibe/atmosphere/settings to the extreme in almost all his movies.

JediTricks wrote: Star Wars Episode 1, 2, and 3 - let's take a classic trilogy and SHIT ALL OVER IT WITH MOVIES ABOUT TRADE EMBARGOES AND TEEN ROMANCE.

Episodes I,II & III's,biggest downfalls were how much back story they took from those crappy novels,comics,fans fiction throughout the decades. In Starwars episode VI many assumed the emperor had that wringled face because he was hundreds of years old like Yoda was. In Episode VI,many viewers assumed that the emperor was leaps & bounds stronger than Darth Vader & Luke. Because the emperor force was so strong he didn't need a light saber,he was able to shoot his force out of himself via lighting bolts. The emperor in episodes IV,V & VI was clearly stronger than Dart Vader & much smarter than Darth Vader. It was the emperor's money & contacts that built all the bad guys stuff.

I agree having the emperor's origins back story in the Prequels being portrayed as a Evil businessman turning into a Evil Politician then turning into a evil Dictator was a bit over the top & totally out of left field. All this garbage must have been added in during the decades after episodes VI ended Via all those awful SW Novels/comics & fans fiction.

All that political garbage added for the emperor's prequels origins must have been the writers clever way of giving the finger to what America has become. as most say Capitalism is worse than communism or the same as it. I t was also a desperate attemp to mock corporate america & all the super rich guys like Donald Trump.

JediTricks wrote: New Coke Trek and its afterbirth.

Many don't know this,but the whole idea for this time changing events saga was taken from the " Of Gods & Men" Fan made movies that some rich fans made. http://startrekofgodsandmen.com/main/ Personally I find it kinda pathetic that J.J Abrams would use the "Of Gods & mens fan made on-line movies as a bible for his two movies. Having Spock & Uhura as a couple was the "Of gods & men" on-line movies idea. Having the time changing events being centered around disrupting James T Kirks life was the "of gods & men" on-line movies idea.

I always felt doing a reboot by changing the time events from the classics trek was a direct insult to all the old school veteran fans that invested decades in those older stories. it basically gives old school fans the finger as it erases everything they knew/watched. I'M SURE Gene Roddenberry is rolling over in his grave,as he would have NEVER gave the green light for this had he been alive still & was asked.

It boggles the mind why J.J abrams just didn't do a alternate universe Classics star Trek movie saga Films thing instead. like other shows/movies do like as follows: Transformers,G.I Joe,The A-Team,Charlies angels,Miami vice,Batman,Spiderman,X-Men,etc...

Tigermegatron wrote: The Thing I dislike most about almost all the movies Tim Burton has done,Is how he tries to inject the evil clown/circus/goth-ghetto/nightmarish vibe/atmosphere/settings to the extreme in almost all his movies.

Anyone ever notice that nearly all of Burton's films have characters with parental issues? Beetlejuice, Sleepy Hollow, Nightmare Before Christmas, Batman and Batman Returns, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Dark Shadows (2 sets of bad parents even!), the list goes on. So many of his movies make a point to establish that the main characters have shitty parents. Always made me wonder about his own parents, growing up.

All that political garbage added for the emperor's prequels origins must have been the writers clever way of giving the finger to what America has become. as most say Capitalism is worse than communism or the same as it. I t was also a desperate attemp to mock corporate america & all the super rich guys like Donald Trump.

That's pretty impressive considering that Lucas had basically mapped out the entire story back in 1981 (or eariler).

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/2 ... 13793.html

Going by that article, it seems more like Lucas was out to point a finger at American politics more than anything. But he also said that Yoda would be no good in a fight, so clearly some things can change.

138 Scourge wrote:Now see, y'all want to hate on Batman and Robin, but I'd watch that over the Burton Batman movies any day of the week and twice on Sundays. I was explaining the difference between the two to a friend that hadn't seen any of 'em, and it went like this: "One of 'em has Gotham all lit up with neon craziness, and black light painted gang to fight, a sense of humor, and Uma Thurman in a skintight suit. The other's all black and bullshitty and Batman's got damn machine guns on the Batmobile." It's worth noting, though, that my favorite Batmen are Adam West and Deidrich Bader, so that's where I'm coming from. Also, when I say I'd watch Batman and Robin over the Burton movies, I mean all the Burton movies. Even before he just started doing remakes of shit with Johnny Depp in stupid makeup, I was over that guy. Though I did like his Planet of the Apes, but then, I'm a sucker for movies with monkeys.

First off, I disagree that the Tim Burton Batman '89 movie has no sense of humor. It relied on the Joker's dark sense of humor but also had weird stuff like "Where is the Batman? He's at home... WASHING HIS TIGHTS!", "You'll be my numba one.... ah, GUUUUUY!", and "Bob? Gun. *BLAM!*", and "never rub another man's rhubarb"
and subtle stuff like "Sir, perhaps this way?" "Oh, right, and Alfred, give Mr. Knox a grant"; and "Nice place. Lots of space" from Bruce and the Joker, the whole dining room exchange, the arsenal exchange;
and Keaton's brand of awesome like mouthing "I'm Batman... I'm Batman" when Vicki Vale leaves the room.

The follow-up tries to force humor and it gets away from being character-driven into grotesqueness and parody and dark camp. The Schumacher films have no sense of humor, they exchange a true sense of humor for lazy camp and hope that will carry them. "Holy rusted metal, Batman... because it's rusted and full of holes", it's just trying to do the Adam West show without understanding the genius of what '66 Batman was really about. Also, the neon aesthetic is stolen wholesale from other ideas and just slapped piecemeal into those films, it's half an idea hiding a lack of voice, it's cartoonish anti-subtlty because Schumacher now freely admits he had no interest or understanding in Batman at the time.

Second, Uma Thurman has a boring body, skin-tight means little without hips and bust, and that makeup they had her in plus the hair-tits made her look like a tranny.

Third, while the machine guns AND BOMBS on the Batmobile was a bit much, this is not out of touch with the earlier days of Batman, the '30s and early '40s incarnation.

Fourth, Tim Burton has made some great films, Pee Wee's Big Adventure and Beetlejuice spring to mind immediately. He's had a downturn but there's still some genius left in the tank, Corpse Bride was a good piece of vision even if it wasn't the biggest thing ever.

JediTricks wrote:

138 Scourge wrote:Now see, y'all want to hate on Batman and Robin, but I'd watch that over the Burton Batman movies any day of the week and twice on Sundays. I was explaining the difference between the two to a friend that hadn't seen any of 'em, and it went like this: "One of 'em has Gotham all lit up with neon craziness, and black light painted gang to fight, a sense of humor, and Uma Thurman in a skintight suit. The other's all black and bullshitty and Batman's got damn machine guns on the Batmobile." It's worth noting, though, that my favorite Batmen are Adam West and Deidrich Bader, so that's where I'm coming from. Also, when I say I'd watch Batman and Robin over the Burton movies, I mean all the Burton movies. Even before he just started doing remakes of shit with Johnny Depp in stupid makeup, I was over that guy. Though I did like his Planet of the Apes, but then, I'm a sucker for movies with monkeys.

First off, I disagree that the Tim Burton Batman '89 movie has no sense of humor. It relied on the Joker's dark sense of humor but also had weird stuff like "Where is the Batman? He's at home... WASHING HIS TIGHTS!", "You'll be my numba one.... ah, GUUUUUY!", and "Bob? Gun. *BLAM!*", and "never rub another man's rhubarb"
and subtle stuff like "Sir, perhaps this way?" "Oh, right, and Alfred, give Mr. Knox a grant"; and "Nice place. Lots of space" from Bruce and the Joker, the whole dining room exchange, the arsenal exchange;
and Keaton's brand of awesome like mouthing "I'm Batman... I'm Batman" when Vicki Vale leaves the room.

The follow-up tries to force humor and it gets away from being character-driven into grotesqueness and parody and dark camp. The Schumacher films have no sense of humor, they exchange a true sense of humor for lazy camp and hope that will carry them. "Holy rusted metal, Batman... because it's rusted and full of holes", it's just trying to do the Adam West show without understanding the genius of what '66 Batman was really about. Also, the neon aesthetic is stolen wholesale from other ideas and just slapped piecemeal into those films, it's half an idea hiding a lack of voice, it's cartoonish anti-subtlty because Schumacher now freely admits he had no interest or understanding in Batman at the time.

Second, Uma Thurman has a boring body, skin-tight means little without hips and bust, and that makeup they had her in plus the hair-tits made her look like a tranny.

Third, while the machine guns AND BOMBS on the Batmobile was a bit much, this is not out of touch with the earlier days of Batman, the '30s and early '40s incarnation.

Fourth, Tim Burton has made some great films, Pee Wee's Big Adventure and Beetlejuice spring to mind immediately. He's had a downturn but there's still some genius left in the tank, Corpse Bride was a good piece of vision even if it wasn't the biggest thing ever.

The first Batman movie (1989),I thought was decent. The Second one,I thought was pure garbage,the 3rd one was 50/50.

Val Kilmer was a horrible choice to play batman/bruce wayne,as he was too stiff,didn't inject that much persona in the character & seemed rather booring/stale in the role. George clooney played a much better Batman compared to Val Kilmer. George's batman/bruce wayne was full of all the emotions,not stiff,not booring,not stale.

Uma Thurman looked extremely sexy to me in her poison Ivy Role,She had everything that screamed sexy. big tits are not everything,I prefer small tits & a big ass.

Now if you want a UN-SEXY female villian in the 1990's batman movies,Then Michelle Pfeiffer is it. She was WAY TOO OLD FOR THE PART,WAY TOO anorexic SKINNY,Looked more like a ZOMBIE-monster than a beauty in her catwoman outfit. She was way too plain & pastie white. her face had way too many bumps,moles,warts,wrinkles,bags under her eyes,whatever,that looked disgusting/gross when she was in her catwoman mask & the camera zoomed in on her face. Even though her on-line bio says she was 32 when she played the role of catwoman,she literally looked like she was in her 40's.

For Batman movies for me, I like the first one and the third one and thought the even numbered ones were bad. Batman Returns had horrible special effects, when the Penguin's lair was collapsing you could tell is was painted Styrofoam. Which in a movie where they're spending millions of dollars on actors is just plain unforgiveable. In Batman and Robin(?) I thought the acting was good but again, the special effects left me flat. When Freeze freezes the city, there's a scene where a guy opens his car door and an icicle is flopping on it to the point where you could tell it was plastic and wire. And again, in a movie with the acting budget is that high, unforgiveable. 89 Batman I liked because it was the first time in decades that we'd seen the caped crusader on screen and it made us take the character more seriously after the campfest of the 66 series. Batman Forever I liked as that was mostly carried by the performances of Jim Carey and Tommy Lee Jones. I thought both did brilliantly in their roles, especially Carey who brought an over the topness to the Riddler that really seems to fit the character.

Also, as for bad movies: Catwoman. The whole thing is really better forgotten.

Dare Devil: I didn't see it, but all accounts I've heard have been bad. And I don't like Ben Afleck anyway.

The Hulk: I don't really care for the Hulk as a character anyway and the Ang Lee version was nothing to write home about. The Edward Norton one was leaps and bounds better, but I'd still say that 0 x 2 still = 0. Again, mostly based on my general dislike of the character.

Also, I can't believe we're on a TF website and none of us has mentioned the TF movies. The first one suffered primarily from shaking cam syndrome and massive plot holes. Also, I didn't care for the robot designs. ROTF was even worse, sure there was less shaky cam, but again the plot holes piled up and the designs weren't better and the "humor" was just not funny. DOTM was way better than the previous 2, but again, 2 times 0 is still 0.