No Blurr, who else was left out of Alternators?

[BWprowl]

Aw bricks in a hat, I actually agree with Sparky on this one. If I want regular, everyday Transformers, I'll buy Classics or whatever. But the entire point of Alternators was to go those extra miles to make them special and unique. Basically, they would be good as detailed, model cars that also transformed (kinda like the original Diaclone cars, actually). Jaguar Ravage lacks many of the 'features' that contribute to that design philosophy, so I can see why fans of the line might dislike him for that reason.

Of course, I still think he's a freaking sweet Jaguar that turns into a Jaguar, but that's just me (and '86).

Anyway O6, you said you didn't like Alternators anyway, so I can see why the 'model car' features might not appeal to you...

[onslaught86]

Tell that to the entire front grille and bumper and hood, the roof and windshield, and the rear window and bumper. In fact, the only kibble that even pretends to be part of the bot mode are the doors and rear fenders, and they do a shoddy job of it.

I always considered that just part of his armour rather than kibble, due to his tail being attached to it and it forming his entire back.. I will note that I like shellformers, though, ala original flavour Rhinox, so I'm probably just looking at it differently because it's not intrusive.

This is a weird argument, basically you don't like Alternators so you're claiming this figure is good because it's not like them? And it is a simplistic transformation when you take out the kibble parts, it's just fold out legs, head, and tail, fold midsection together.

I do look Alts, and own all but two of them. I don't like the ones that are overcomplex and unfun because they take too long to transform and ruin their innovation because they're not intuitive. Ravage's transformation impressed me, they'd not done a straight beast-vehicle before and this one's a pretty good first effort. I am definitely claiming this figure as good for being different, it's everything far too many Alternators aren't.

Bull! That's a cool feature, it makes it more like a real car than most Transformers, gives it a sense of authenticity. And doors, hood, trunk too.

Last I checked, his doors and trunk did open.. Hood I'll give you, it's just not a feature I cared for a lot because it was all form and no function; if I'm going to leave a model car on display I'd rather it had awesome rockets than an opening hood with an engine underneath. Again, this is me and my tastes, we clearly do like Alternators for different reasons. Ravage captures my imagination and sense of aesthetic more than Meister or Mirage.

The turning wheels, well, it was 'there', but I'd have been just as happy had they not turned in unison. They're not radio-controlled cars or anything.

It was the whole point of Alternators/Binaltech to have licensed, modern day, highly detailed, realistic vehicle modes complete with interiors, turning wheels, opening doors, trunks ect. and transform into G1 (more or less) characters.... With out that, they wouldn't have been any different than any other Transformers line.

I'll call that. It's the consistent scale, large size, and arrangement of parts that makes Alternators appeal to me. I like looking at the way they transform and envisioning actual vehicles doing that, with the more realistic use of seats and the like that the majority of TFs lack. So, yes, it's the realism as a factor, but parts like the turning wheels have less of a bearing on it. The scale and size still set them aside from other TFs and are part of what make them so great to display in numbers (This was what encouraged me to buy almost the entire line).

[andersonh1]

I'll call that. It's the consistent scale, large size, and arrangement of parts that makes Alternators appeal to me. I like looking at the way they transform and envisioning actual vehicles doing that, with the more realistic use of seats and the like that the majority of TFs lack.

That's a big part of the appeal to me as well. In general, the Alternators really hearken back to the early days of Transformers by combining actual car models with some of the same characters, such as Bluestreak/Silverstreak. I've seen Imprezas being driven around town, and I still see the occasional Datsun 280ZX as well. Having actual real-world car models adds an extra touch of authenticity to the idea of disguise that a fantasy car like Hot Rod doesn't have.

[JediTricks]

...which matter all of None? If I wanted that stuff, I'd buy a model car. I buy Transformers because they transform.

Must you so often be a toadstool? A realistic car model that transforms into a robot, that's a good thing.

I always considered that just part of his armour rather than kibble, due to his tail being attached to it and it forming his entire back.. I will note that I like shellformers, though, ala original flavour Rhinox, so I'm probably just looking at it differently because it's not intrusive.

He's got more big shell than almost any other figure, and it sticks out more awkwardly than most as well.

[Onslaught Six]

Must you so often be a toadstool? A realistic car model that transforms into a robot, that's a good thing.

Realistic != Licensed. Take the Classics lines, which all have realistic vehicle modes, but not 'licensed' ones. I never said it was a 'bad' thing, but trying to pass off "Licensed vehicle mode!" as a gimmick is worse than trying to pass off "Has Articulation!" as a gimmick.

[Mirage]

Realistic != Licensed. Take the Classics lines, which all have realistic vehicle modes, but not 'licensed' ones. I never said it was a 'bad' thing, but trying to pass off "Licensed vehicle mode!" as a gimmick is worse than trying to pass off "Has Articulation!" as a gimmick.

Well, that depends on what you're looking for. I think a big strategy in selling the Alternators was trying to appeal to people who were just looking for cool toy cars, who might be looking for a Jag or a Dodge Viper, and then letting them realize the cool toy they were looking at was actually a Transformer. Hence the packaging showcasing the vehicle mode, with the licensed logos slapped on there. This was probably why more than once I found Alts on the toy car aisle instead of the action figure aisle.

[onslaught86]

The license itself is an interesting factor to bring up. We know for fact that the licenses caused the line a lot of hassle - debating with the companies during the design phases, problems with vehicle modes looking 'broken', and the removal of weapons, not to mention licensing fees and the licenses expiring. Thanks to those expired licenses, we're not getting much more mileage out of the moulds we've already had.

However, without the license, why would they bother to go all-out with vehicle detailing? Without it being a model of 'something' larger and real, there's not a lot of point. I'll agree that a line of fantasy or generic vehicles at this scale could work well, but I'll argue that they'd be a completely different kettle of fish too. There is no real reason to render a vehicle realistically if it isn't realistic in the first place. It'd be like taking Animated Bumblebee and decking him out with weathering and such.

I think the problem is where the real emphasis in the design lies. If they really pushed the "Robots In Disguise" factor, and had realistic vehicle modes with 'features' - think JagRav's pop-out rockets, of Barricade's freaky claw-eye headlights from the movie - I'd find the vehicle modes a whole lot cooler, and I think they'd have considerably more appeal to those who want more than A Car that Sits There.

[JediTricks]

Realistic != Licensed. Take the Classics lines, which all have realistic vehicle modes, but not 'licensed' ones. I never said it was a 'bad' thing, but trying to pass off "Licensed vehicle mode!" as a gimmick is worse than trying to pass off "Has Articulation!" as a gimmick.

Classics isn't anywhere near as realistic as Alternators. Interiors, wheels & tires, use of space... Look at Sunstreaker, nifty figure yes, and it's actually ripping off the Lamborghini Gallardo pretty close, yet it's not Alt-quality. Classics "massages" the lines too much to get it to fit the robot needs. Same with Prowl, clearly a Nissan 350z with only the smallest of changes, yet that alone doesn't make it realistic.

[Onslaught Six]

"Realistic" != Exact To Every Detail. Realistic simply means that this could very well pass off--for however long--as a real vehicle toy. And stuff.

[onslaught86]

Mmm, they do look considerably less like real vehicle toys than Alts, though. Streak and Sideswipe are much closer than Prowl and Sunstreaker, thanks to their improved decos, but I'd argue that the movie line came closer.

Alternity looks a decent compromise, being a hybrid of Binaltech and Movie aesthetic and design tricks, including die-cast and at the Deluxe scale. If it weren't for the price, that is.