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No more than basic retail, $6ish/fig. See if you can dig through loose bins, though--Mindbender did come in a massive troopbuilder set, so people are indeed likely to have extras laying about for cheap.Dominic wrote:I can keep and eye out for that set at the convention. What are you willing to pay for it? I can take a few of the figures. But, you would have to eat most of them.
The fact that you used "toyhack" that way proves my point. The fact that you like Serpentor makes you a doofus. Cobra went from being a worldwide paramilitary terrorist organization to some outlandish religious cult built around the stupid idea of the world's worst people's DNA put into 1 megalomaniacal idiot who has not proven himself or even given training, he just pops onto the scene and because he's dressed like a snake-king they go along with it. It's dumb dumb dumb.Dominic wrote:The fact you keep hating on Serpentor makes you a toyhack. (He came out in '86, and replaced comforting old Cobra Commander.)
No, the chariot sucked donkeys, it was just a gold hoverboard with 2 guns and no defense. It was zero fun and a bad idea to go with the bad idea that was the character. This sucks 100%, no matter what scale of figure is using it: http://www.yojoe.com/vehicles/86/airchariot/The chariot was a good character specific vehicle for toys that were properly scaled fot it. Zartan's skier was (if I remember correctly) a pretty good toy.
I beat that thing up as a kid and it took it, parts would come off before they'd break, then I'd just put them back on. Real rubber tires and seats too, plus springy suspension. I think my dad actually still has that one in a box of my stuff.-Silver Mirage: fragile garbage. I have seen better knock-offs.
I liked they colors, they were realistic, Black for the Trans Am elements, blue for the armored car parts, red for the other stuff. They retooled it for the Street Fighter movie crossover line and gave it garish colors: http://www.yojoe.com/vehicles/93/beastblaster/Thunder Machine: good mould, badly painted. Could have done with more customizability (swappable parts and such), but a good toy.
Who gives a shit about how it was assembled? It was a cool design, a good villain against the Snow Cat. It was sleek and it had fun weapons and cockpits. Don't be such a knob.-Wolf: to cruddy plastic trays that snap together. Wow.
Why exactly are you going to this convention then? Seems like you have a hate-on for almost everything about the line. O-rings were an excellent way to add a new dimension of play potential to 3.75" figures, they were at least as important as swivel biceps and ball-jointed necks.O-rings are crap. It is a good thing they were easy to fix because they *are* easy to break.
-and the original 13 are boring.
Why would you buy vehicles then if your space was limited to half an inch wide? Even the Sting Raider, another fav of mine and another flying sub, wouldn't fit. The only thing that'd work would be the ninja bikes because they don't have sidecars.Onslaught Six wrote:It was huge compared to the figures. Keep in mind, I was using my headboard as a shelf for Joes. I could line maybe three rows of them up with stands. There just wasn't any 'room' for this thing.
It doesn't do the playing for you, it requires you have fun using your imagination with it. It's stealthy, big, it has the cool 2-man cockpit that opens by dropping, movable landing gear with covers activated by a single lever, a bomb rack that slid flush into the underside, opening brakes and engine covers, a rear-facing gun, and most importantly, it carries a mini-fighter jet on its back!See, I even had some repeated attempts to get some of those vehicles, or fascimiles thereof--they rereleased the Night Raven in the 25th line and I had 'zero' desire for it. Because it was huge. Sure, it's a plane with some features like, uh...opening cockpit? Lowering landing gear? And stuff? Er, woo?
But it wasn't a comparable sized toy, and the Night Raven had a figure and a bunch of cool features all for $18. What could you get back in the G1 day for that? Starscream, a small, simplistically-detailed jet that turned into a medium-sized figure with 2 points of articulation and 1 more feature. It's apples and oranges. We're talking about GI Joe toys for what they are, not for what they are in comparison to TF toys, if you didn't like GI Joe toys as much as TF, that's on you, not the toys themselves.The thing is, for a comparable price...I could get a TF. I could even get a jet TF who is likely to have most of those same features. (Opening cockpit is one that's kinda going away more and more, but it's not like there's any figures to go in them.)
The SHARC's a FLYING submarine so it doesn't need water, and if your imagination hadn't been eroded so horribly, you could just PRETEND the floor or shelf was water.Water vehicles...don't interest me. Like, almost at all. To get any visual mileage out of them, you kinda...need water. And I'm twenty years old, I'm not about to go fill up my bathtub to play with toys in it. The same goes for snow-based vehicles and figures. And to be fair--I'm looking at it from a reserved-adult-Joe-collector point of view, not one as a kid. And it doesn't help that I'm not even really into Joe in the first place 'for the Joes,' they just happen to come with the territory. I'm in it for Cobra Commander being awesome. (Sometimes, I forget that.)
The Defiant Space Vehicle Launch Complex was a vehicle, it had wheels a la the NASA shuttle crawler, weapons, and a cockpit. And if you couldn't have fun with that sucker, you were dead inside. The 2 space shuttles were cool as hell inside and out, and even the launch complex had fun stuff going on.Also, everyone always freaks out about those huge playsets like the Defiant and the Terrordrome, but honestly I couldn't give a shit. I don't have the room for that kind of space-sucking thing, and on top of that--I had bunches of playsets as a kid. And you know what? They were pretty boring. The Technodrome mostly sat around 'being the Technodrome,' because the inside was too ridiculously small to handle any kind of real-scale battle happening.
You weren't born when it was released, it was $6.50 and it came with a figure, removable torpedoes, and diving bellows. It's not a Transformers deluxe, it's got a figure and it's larger and it's a different play pattern, and G1 was boring as hell most of the time when it came to play.When it was released, single-packed Joes were about $5, so it was closer to being $10. For $10, I expected equal complexity and awesome to any given Deluxe.It was $6.50, what do you want?
Yeah, the '90s killed playsets. The '80s had a lot of great playsets, I briefly had the Go-Bots Guardian Command Center, it was weird and had simplistic detailing, but it did sorta transform, and I like elevators - still, it was meh.Dom wrote:Your point of reference for this is off, likely as a result of your age. The Technodrome was crap. In the 80s, we had better playsets. (I still want something comparable to the Go-Bots Command Center. And, I have heard nothing but good things about the Renegade analogue.) We had out share of clunkers, such as the too-small Castle Grayskull. Playsets in the 90s were very anemic though.
The Terrordrome is great. (The cartoon incorrectly portrayed it as a main HQ, when it was supposed to be field HQ. The comic stated there were dozens, if not hundreds of Terrordromes. In some cases, they were within walking distance of each-other.)
Again, $6.50 got you a flying submarine with an action figure. There is no way that is a bad deal. There is no modern equivalent, production costs have shrunk, but they charge for a factory worker to assemble it.JT meant that it cost $6.50 then. That would be like ~$15-$20 now. (This actually proves your point further, but JT''s statement beared clarification.)
Toyhackery is favoring the old over all else. Point for me.The fact that you used "toyhack" that way proves my point. The fact that you like Serpentor makes you a doofus. Cobra went from being a worldwide paramilitary terrorist organization to some outlandish religious cult built around the stupid idea of the world's worst people's DNA put into 1 megalomaniacal idiot who has not proven himself or even given training, he just pops onto the scene and because he's dressed like a snake-king they go along with it. It's dumb dumb dumb.
The chariot had defense in the form of the snake hood on the front. And, Serpentor was given to grandiose gestures, like riding out in the open. (This also happens to be how he died. But, anyway...)No, the chariot sucked donkeys, it was just a gold hoverboard with 2 guns and no defense. It was zero fun and a bad idea to go with the bad idea that was the character. This sucks 100%, no matter what scale of figure is using it: http://www.yojoe.com/vehicles/86/airchariot/
Look at the molded detail on the thunder Machine though. Now, ask yourself how much better it could have been with more paint.I liked they colors, they were realistic, Black for the Trans Am elements, blue for the armored car parts, red for the other stuff. They retooled it for the Street Fighter movie crossover line and gave it garish colors:
The true fan speaks!Why exactly are you going to this convention then? Seems like you have a hate-on for almost everything about the line. O-rings were an excellent way to add a new dimension of play potential to 3.75" figures, they were at least as important as swivel biceps and ball-jointed necks.
Kind of like Serpentor's chariot.It doesn't do the playing for you, it requires you have fun using your imagination with it.
That works for *play*, not *display*.The SHARC's a FLYING submarine so it doesn't need water, and if your imagination hadn't been eroded so horribly, you could just PRETEND the floor or shelf was water.
I believe it's the new baby Night Raven from the movie line which is getting a re-release, not the awesome original.138 Scourge wrote:Wait wait wait wait...
What's this about the Night Raven being rereleased for the 25th line? I totally missed that, and I would have seriously gone apeshit for one of those. I loved the hell out of the Night Raven, that was by far my favorite plane in the line.
Does it hurt in your mommy-and-daddy place to be wrong this much? You are making an assumption based on the label you ascribed, you are saying I'm a toyhack and then reading only the words that suit your label. In Transformers, I consistently show preference to newer figures over G1 and G2. With Star Wars, I'm constantly tossing out the older POTF2 figures in place of the new ones as well as any updated vehicles. On GI Joe, I called out the Sting Raider from a few years ago, the Steel Crusher from last year, and multiple upcoming vehicles from the next line which I said were either good or looked like they would be, and I picked up nearly everything in the Sigma 6 line. Listen Freud, sometimes a cigar ain't your penis. Nobody had great things to say about the vehicles in the latest movie line, sometimes the newest shit ain't the greatest shit, and the movie line's utter failure at market is backing me up pretty hard.Dominic wrote:Toyhackery is favoring the old over all else. Point for me.
GI Joe: A Real American Hero was based on 3 things, in the following order:Cobra was always vaguely cultish. Hama set it up that way from day one. Cobra troops were suicidal in early issues of the comic. (The change to less suicidal was actually explained in context...by Hama circa issue 50 or so, when Serpentor came in.)
Hama disdained Serpentor entirely. Point: JTI am not a huge fan of the morpho-genetic determinism implied by Serpentor. But, the basic concept worked well, despite Hama's disdain for it.
Ok, so it has 20 degrees of defense in the form of a small panel, wow, good thing everybody only fires straight ahead at him. Oh wait, you yourself point out how it doesn't happen. It's a stupid, reckless, silly idea and it comes off lame. But hey, at least the little snake face is connected to the steering yoke so it can turn ever so slightly.The chariot had defense in the form of the snake hood on the front. And, Serpentor was given to grandiose gestures, like riding out in the open. (This also happens to be how he died. But, anyway...)
Never bothered me none. It's not like Joe vehicles were ever known for their high quality detailed decos. And at least back then they used plastic colors that showed details rather than hid them the way they too often do now.Look at the molded detail on the thunder Machine though. Now, ask yourself how much better it could have been with more paint.
... too easy.Joking aside, I do like the line. (If I did not, would I have as many figures, custom and otherwise, as I do?)
I have yet to see consistent implementation of the modern mid-torso articulation that works anywhere near as well. In fact, on the movie line figures it ranged from "eh" to downright worthless. Until there's more range of motion (likely from a double ball joint), I still feel the jury is out. There are a small number of Star Wars figures that pull this off, but very few and even less that aren't armored figures.O-rings were a good idea 25+ years ago. But, I am glad to see the end of them.
No. Well, you do have to use your imagination to get it to be a "chariot", but otherwise, that thing is a small pile of suck. There is almost nothing going on there on top of being a bad idea to begin with. You can't put extra figures on it, you can't drop bombs, you can't get in the cockpit, you can't work on the engine, you can't really expect anybody to survive using it for more than a few minutes. In fact, all it's good for is drawing attention with its bright hue and goofy driver, which is great if you are playing "sniper", but otherwise totally ludicrous.Kind of like Serpentor's chariot.
It is a FLYING sub, it does not need to be in the water to have a purpose, FLYING submarine. FLYING. FLIGHT. IN THE AIR. ALOFT IN THE HEAVENS. USING MECHANICAL MEANS TO REMAIN IN MOTION ABOVE THE GROUND FOR EXTENDED PERIODS.That works for *play*, not *display*.
Well, the part about you not being objective is on the money anyway.Dom
-cannot objectively justify the SHARC.
Price aside, how is that toy? No way is it $40 worth of plane. But, it does not look like a total waste of time.I believe it's the new baby Night Raven from the movie line which is getting a re-release, not the awesome original.
Fair enough. I just hear so much Serpentor-hate, and Joe fans tend to be toy-hacks of the worst order.I consistently show preference to newer figures over G1 and G2. With Star Wars, I'm constantly tossing out the older POTF2 figures in place of the new ones as well as any updated vehicles.
Hama wrote the file cards for the toys while working for Marvel. And, the cartoon was developed by Marvel. Do not sell the comics short. The Crimson Guard file cards made reference to cultish behavior. And, CC was listed as being a demagogue, similar to a cult leader.GI Joe: A Real American Hero was based on 3 things, in the following order:
1) Toys
2) Cartoon
3) Comic
And yet, surprise surprise, you only refer to the comics.
All hail Hama!Hama disdained Serpentor entirely. Point: JT
The body segmenting is a better idea than o-rings. But, the execution is often lacking. Hasbro should just import the engineering used on modern Microman/Acroyear figures.I have yet to see consistent implementation of the modern mid-torso articulation that works anywhere near as well. In fact, on the movie line figures it ranged from "eh" to downright worthless. Until there's more range of motion (likely from a double ball joint), I still feel the jury is out. There are a small number of Star Wars figures that pull this off, but very few and even less that aren't armored figures.
You cannot get into the cockpit of the Silver Mirage either. Why does every vehicle have to hold more than one figure? Is it really important to be able to work on a badly colored "engine"? It has two guns on the sides. The snake head likely had a sensore package. And, there was a dangerously spinning rotor-engine on the back. Plenty of fodder for the imagination.No. Well, you do have to use your imagination to get it to be a "chariot", but otherwise, that thing is a small pile of suck. There is almost nothing going on there on top of being a bad idea to begin with. You can't put extra figures on it, you can't drop bombs, you can't get in the cockpit, you can't work on the engine, you can't really expect anybody to survive using it for more than a few minutes. In fact, all it's good for is drawing attention with its bright hue and goofy driver, which is great if you are playing "sniper", but otherwise totally ludicrous.
And, it looks like crap on the shelf. Displaying it on the shelf does not evoke flight or submersion. And, a flying sub is slightly stupider than an open top chariot. A flying sub is an over-powered, border-line Mary Su, vehicle.It is a FLYING sub, it does not need to be in the water to have a purpose, FLYING submarine. FLYING. FLIGHT. IN THE AIR. ALOFT IN THE HEAVENS. USING MECHANICAL MEANS TO REMAIN IN MOTION ABOVE THE GROUND FOR EXTENDED PERIODS.
Because they kept coming with figures I wanted. Grand Slam, Clutch, and Steeler all came with vehicles. The only reason I don't own Short Fuze is because he only came out in that ungodly ridiculous $100 set.JediTricks wrote:Why would you buy vehicles then if your space was limited to half an inch wide?
None of that interests me. Somehow.It doesn't do the playing for you, it requires you have fun using your imagination with it. It's stealthy, big, it has the cool 2-man cockpit that opens by dropping, movable landing gear with covers activated by a single lever, a bomb rack that slid flush into the underside, opening brakes and engine covers, a rear-facing gun, and most importantly, it carries a mini-fighter jet on its back!
Ah, no, you're comparing the G1 counterparts. The fact is that now, we've got a new Night Raven (I looked it up, it was a new mould and everything) that was being sold for about $25. That's an Ultra. (Although I'll admit that the Ultras don't exactly have a track record for being awesome--Classics Silverbolt comes to mind, and I wasn't fond of Powerglide either. Hrm.)But it wasn't a comparable sized toy, and the Night Raven had a figure and a bunch of cool features all for $18. What could you get back in the G1 day for that? Starscream, a small, simplistically-detailed jet that turned into a medium-sized figure with 2 points of articulation and 1 more feature. It's apples and oranges. We're talking about GI Joe toys for what they are, not for what they are in comparison to TF toys, if you didn't like GI Joe toys as much as TF, that's on you, not the toys themselves.
My imagination hasn't been eroded. Again--I think you're assuming I played with Joes 'as a kid' and found these as complaints. I never did. The GI Joe line didn't get back to a place where I could readily collect it until 2002, and I didn't get into it until 2003 (I remember buying SpyTroops Cobra Commander alongside Armada Megatron) and on top of that, I was still a teen then, so my income was Less, and more focused on TF. So these are all complaints that adult, 19 to 20-year old O6 is having. I'm old and these toys 'have no' nostalgia for me.The SHARC's a FLYING submarine so it doesn't need water, and if your imagination hadn't been eroded so horribly, you could just PRETEND the floor or shelf was water.
Search your feelings, you know it to be true.PS - Cobra Commander is awesome? Whaaa?
I didn't buy a single GI Joe figure or vehicle until 2003. Well, that's a lie, at some point in my childhood my father bought me the 12" Grunt. (He was boring too.) And I couldn't exactly go looking for that kind of stuff as a kid since I didn't know what the hell it was, and had no interest in the franchise.Maybe you should have learned to be choosy since that stuff was all super cheap to get when you were a kid, seeing as it was off the market but there was no aftermarket for it at the time.
You keep comparing them to G1, but that's not what I'm doing. I'm strictly talking about the new stuff they released--much of it rehashes of the old stuff. I was certainly born when the 25th Night Spectre came out. And it was $15 for a big dumb vehicle I didn't want and a repaint of a guy I already had. Which I only bought because I said I wanted all of the O13. And that was just so I could have some semblance of a Joe army to fight the mass amounts of Cobra I would surely acquire.You weren't born when it was released, it was $6.50 and it came with a figure, removable torpedoes, and diving bellows. It's not a Transformers deluxe, it's got a figure and it's larger and it's a different play pattern, and G1 was boring as hell most of the time when it came to play.
Maybe then it was a deal, but as you said--there's no modern equivalent, so the thing sucks for the price it is now. Especially when you come into the franchise after being on TF for a decade. I'll admit, I'm probably spoilt on my expectations from TF...but that just leads me to be pickier in the long run.Again, $6.50 got you a flying submarine with an action figure. There is no way that is a bad deal. There is no modern equivalent, production costs have shrunk, but they charge for a factory worker to assemble it.
It's funny how Furman gets that with TF, despite Budiansky filling Hama's role. It's just that Budiansky quit a lot sooner.Dom wrote:But, he is given too much credit for being a better writer than he in fact is.
I can see where JT is coming from on this. But, the NIght Raven is not realistic by any stretch. And, at the end of the day, for display purposes, I just need a jet that looks good. The opening brake fins are nice, but not essential unless I am setting up hangar dio showing mechanics working on the plane. (And, they never really made technicians.)None of that interests me. Somehow.
Maybe I'm not geared for realism. After all, CybMenasor is a favourite toy because 'dude spider drill tank.'
\You keep comparing them to G1, but that's not what I'm doing. I'm strictly talking about the new stuff they released--much of it rehashes of the old stuff. I was certainly born when the 25th Night Spectre came out. And it was $15 for a big dumb vehicle I didn't want and a repaint of a guy I already had. Which I only bought because I said I wanted all of the O13. And that was just so I could have some semblance of a Joe army to fight the mass amounts of Cobra I would surely acquire.
Hama was a better writer than Furman at the time! (Now, I would argue he is worse!) Hama did better dialogue, even if one ignore Furman's shameful over-use of exclamation points! If sometimes looks like a little kid is writing for Furman! Furman cannot avoid cosmic McGuffins and writing children's play sessions, while Hama's biggest problem then was contrivance, even if he did stay thematically consistent!It's funny how Furman gets that with TF, despite Budiansky filling Hama's role. It's just that Budiansky quit a lot sooner.