Spotlight:

[Shockwave]

Isn't Thundercracker still on Earth? Like, watching tv or something?

Also, this issue shoehorns Waspinator into G1.

[Mako Crab]

Isn't Thundercracker still on Earth? Like, watching tv or something?

Also, this issue shoehorns Waspinator into G1.

He needed something to do after all those eons of roaming prehistoric Earth alone and bored.

[BWprowl]

Isn't Thundercracker still on Earth? Like, watching tv or something?

Nah, that was a flashback in issue 3 (or was it 4) of the Ongoing, he'd gotten out from under the building and rejoined the Decepticons by the 'present' of that story, though he spent a large part of it as a free agent, helping the Autobots out against the Combaticons in Korea, and taking a stand against Starscream and getting hauled to safety by Brawn during the 'Revenge of the Decepticons' arc. Can't really think of where he wound up after all that, presumably he went back to Cybertron with one of the rides home the Autobots hitched, though I don't think he's been seen prominently in RID.

This issue wasn't bad. Thundercracker's up there with Prowl in "Characters IDW has made great", and this comic expands on that (with a decent bit of reverse-foreshadowing towards how we know he'll act in All Hail Megatron). Chee's art looks a good bit better here than it did back in the Bumblebee series, almost a Sunbow look going on in places, though I'm not crazy about how the Cybertronian vehicles are drawn with full cockpits and seats (including an annoying conspicuous close-up on Thundercracker's at the very end, which threw me the hell off).

Also, this issue shoehorns Waspinator into G1.

As a member of the Deluxe Insecticons, no less! Now I need to see about getting a Waspinator that'll fit in that way with the toys I have of the whole crew on display. Maybe FoxKids Transmetal Waspinator would work...

Oh yeah, the Deluxe Insecticons were in this. That was another thing I liked about it.

[Dominic]

Like, what if Thundercracker emerged as the future Decepticon leader?

For all of the tweaks and nuance added to Thundercracker over the years, (all of which stem from a really well written file card nearly 30 years ago), he has never been shown as a leader. In fact, one of his defining traits is that he needs someone or something to follow.

In practical terms, Thundercracker's success as a leader would depend on how many Thundercrackers are in the Decepticon army as a whole.

Starscream way back in AHM # 11 or 12 (can't recall), saying that he had to make the 'cons as vicious and evil as possible to win the war, but that afterwards, he intended to cull out the truly psychotic and rebuild the Decepticons as he originally envisioned them.

Megatron would have had to purge out most of his army. Would the Decepticons even be a viable force after that? Even Megatron, despite his early ideals, is shown to have degenerated somewhat, becoming as much a monster as those he initially fought against. (He really has does not have any practical plans for after the war, as shown in "All Hail Megatron". He is stalling on Earth, but Starscream is on to him and is pushing for the next step.)

And, that kind of touches on the problem Thundercracker would have.

While there was a point, much earlier, when the Decepticons could have been the heroes, that moment passed. As shown, or at least strongly implied, in "More than Meets the Eye" and elsewhere, the good Decepticons all gave up in some way. Thundercracker, and likely others, just went along to get along. Others, like Drift, eventually went away, either switching sides or going in to hiding. And, still others actually killed themselves out of despair. The ones who remained were the worst of the worst.

With Starscream, there's always that air of suspicion about him, like, is he really trying to reform himself and the 'cons, or is he just after a power grab?

Starscream was also a believer. And, he is clearly sincere in "Robots in Disguise". Note his disgust with Ratbat, and his own feelings about being honest. Starscream is no angel, but he is trying to do the right thing in this case.

Isn't Thundercracker still on Earth? Like, watching tv or something?

Thundercracker was last shown leaving Earth, during volume 3(?), just as the alliance between the humans and cybertronians began to break down.

Chee's art looks a good bit better here than it did back in the Bumblebee series, almost a Sunbow look going on in places, though I'm not crazy about how the Cybertronian vehicles are drawn with full cockpits and seats (including an annoying conspicuous close-up on Thundercracker's at the very end, which threw me the hell off).

IDW has been adhering to Hasbro's "Aligned", unless it contradicts something IDW has already established or treads in places that Hasbro has made verbotten, such as the "original 13". And, Hasbro has reconciled the cockpits as being a hold over from when Cybertronians were ruled by the Quintessons. (This was mentioned in "Exodus".)

I have always liked Chee's art.

Oh yeah, the Deluxe Insecticons were in this. That was another thing I liked about it.

I am not even going to pretend that I understand this. What is the draw of the Deluxe Insections?

25+ years ago, they were a group of toys that did not really "fit". Their only moments, such as they were, aside from entries in Dreamwave's comprehensive sourcebook, were as background characters. The only thing I recall definitively about them is that at least two of them were present during the seige of Iacon in "War Within". (One of them was about to get killed by a Sentinel.) Did they even show up in the UK comics?

[BWprowl]

For all of the tweaks and nuance added to Thundercracker over the years, (all of which stem from a really well written file card nearly 30 years ago)

So many props to IDW for finally being the ones to DO something with that, by the way.

Megatron would have had to purge out most of his army. Would the Decepticons even be a viable force after that? Even Megatron, despite his early ideals, is shown to have degenerated somewhat, becoming as much a monster as those he initially fought against. (He really has does not have any practical plans for after the war, as shown in "All Hail Megatron". He is stalling on Earth, but Starscream is on to him and is pushing for the next step.)

Well, we saw in Chaos Theory that Megatron would *like* to get around to unifying all Cybertronians (even doing away with the Decepticon brand/faction) had his side won the war under the right circumstances, IE: On Cybertron with actual resources at his disposal. Could be what he’s playing for in RID now, we’ll have to see (Aargh, why do we have to wait for the next issue of that!).

Starscream was also a believer. And, he is clearly sincere in "Robots in Disguise". Note his disgust with Ratbat, and his own feelings about being honest. Starscream is no angel, but he is trying to do the right thing in this case.

Most of the narration in RID being from Starscream’s point of view was a good move on their part, since Barber had to know there was no way we would believe Starscream was being sincere otherwise. Seeing him as the one genuinely horrified by the move Megatron recently made just drove it home even further.

IDW has been adhering to Hasbro's "Aligned", unless it contradicts something IDW has already established or treads in places that Hasbro has made verbotten, such as the "original 13". And, Hasbro has reconciled the cockpits as being a hold over from when Cybertronians were ruled by the Quintessons. (This was mentioned in "Exodus".)

I dunno, have they actually said they’re basing their stuff off the ‘Aligned’ continuity? Because that’s…a completely separate continuity, based in WfC/TFPrime, it’s not even G1.

I am not even going to pretend that I understand this. What is the draw of the Deluxe Insections?

25+ years ago, they were a group of toys that did not really "fit". Their only moments, such as they were, aside from entries in Dreamwave's comprehensive sourcebook, were as background characters. The only thing I recall definitively about them is that at least two of them were present during the seige of Iacon in "War Within". (One of them was about to get killed by a Sentinel.) Did they even show up in the UK comics?

I’m not sure how they ‘don’t fit’. They’re blocky, primary-colored robots like every other TF toy released that year, they fit just fine.

As for their appeal: For me, it comes from when I was about 12-13 and really getting ‘in’ to Transformers. I’d watched BW obsessively of course, and had a few G2 toys and even seen a few episodes of the space-cube’d G1 cartoon, but I generally didn’t know dick about G1 (to the point that I couldn’t keep any of the mainstays straight and repeatedly confused pictures/artwork of, say, Prowl and Ratchet with each other). So I was trawling through unicron.com’s G1 toy gallery, and got to the Insecticons. Now, I was actually decently familiar with the Insecticons thanks to the ‘choose your own adventure’ book featuring them that my third-grade class had had back in the day, and knew that they were a trio of same-colored little bug guys…and then I find that there are four MORE guys in the subgroup! Bigger, more complex-looking toys with additional melee weapons and unique color schemes! They’re like, the bigger, badder, scarier Insecticons that don’t even get let out as much as the other ones because they were just *that dangerous*. And specifically, there’s Venom: the guy actually identified as Leader of the Insecticons. Not just a nominal commander like Bombshell sometimes was, but the actual Insecticon Leader, the guy in charge of keeping these creepy mo’fo’s in line! He had to be a badass, and he certainly looked the part, with his big helmet and mean-looking handaxe.

A lot of the other toys I’d looked at on that website kinda washed over me at the time, but the Deluxe Insecticons really grabbed me and stimulated my imagination and affection. They weren’t just more additional robots for their army, they actually went together with the ‘Basic’ Insecticons to make the whole crew feel like a legitimate subgroup, a specific, functional force, rather than just a trio of dudes.

So anyway, that’s why I like the Deluxe Insecticons so much, anyway.

One of my happiest moments in collecting was a few years back, at the swap meet at Fanime, where I found and bought all four toys, in complete, great condition (need new stickers for them, still), with their boxes included, for $35 total (and that wasn’t just for them, a complete Doublecross, with GOOD stickers, and a still-working sparking action was in that bunch too! Happiest fucking day of my life!). They’ve remained proudly displayed on an endtable (together with the TRU reissue Basic Insecticons) ever since.

Barrage is kind of an amazing toy, by the way.

[Dominic]

Most of the '84/85 toys looked like they came from the same place. Granted, the Deluxe Insecticons were not the only oddities. But, they were among the few that had next to no media presence. (Omega Supreme was an oddity. But, he was in the cartoon and comic.)

I can see liking an obscure toy. But, I cannot see getting excited about seeing a do-nothing character in the background of a comic. For example, I like "Universe" Swerve (the UT Blurr recolour). But, I am not looking to see him in any comics. And, if he just showed up as a background character, I would not care.

I dunno, have they actually said they’re basing their stuff off the ‘Aligned’ continuity? Because that’s…a completely separate continuity, based in WfC/TFPrime, it’s not even G1.

There is no formal effort that I know of. But, since IDW has the license at the same time that Hasbro is actively cultivating "Aligned", they are borrowing heavily from it. As it stands, "Aligned" borrows heavily from Dreamwave, as does IDW (Megatron's origin). I recall "Autocracy" being described as working with both IDW and "Aligned".


Dom
-wanted to like "Exiles".

[BWprowl]

Most of the '84/85 toys looked like they came from the same place. Granted, the Deluxe Insecticons were not the only oddities. But, they were among the few that had next to no media presence. (Omega Supreme was an oddity. But, he was in the cartoon and comic.)

I dunno, despite coming from the different place, I always thought the Deluxe Insecticons meshed pretty well, aesthetically, with the rest of the '85 guys. They're certainly more homogenous, in my opinion, than Omega Supreme or Sky Lynx. What, in your opinion, makes them look so 'different'?

I can see liking an obscure toy. But, I cannot see getting excited about seeing a do-nothing character in the background of a comic. For example, I like "Universe" Swerve (the UT Blurr recolour). But, I am not looking to see him in any comics. And, if he just showed up as a background character, I would not care.

It's hard to explain, but it's like...okay, I really like these guys. But they're relatively obscure. So when they do show up in something like this, it's kinda vindicating, you know? Like "Oh cool, people haven't totally forgotten about these guys! Barber clearly likes and/or cares about the Deluxe Insecticons, that's nice to know!" I definitely get the vibe that he actually 'likes' them too, seeing as he shoehorned Waspinator in there as a way to avoid killing any of the 'real' Deluxe Insecticons off.

What do you like about Universe Swerve, out of curiosity? I actually harbor mild resentment towards that toy, seeing it as a possible end-result of the Powerlinx Blurr shitstorm, and something of a cop-out on Hasbro's part as well, in that respect.

There is no formal effort that I know of. But, since IDW has the license at the same time that Hasbro is actively cultivating "Aligned", they are borrowing heavily from it. As it stands, "Aligned" borrows heavily from Dreamwave, as does IDW (Megatron's origin). I recall "Autocracy" being described as working with both IDW and "Aligned".

I don't know that 'came out at the same time and has some similar ideas' counts as an official validation of 'Aligned' counting towards IDW continuity (especially since TF continuities crib ideas from each other ALL THE TIME). I certainly wouldn't take anything from 'Exodus' or 'Exiles' as counting towards IDW's stories unless explicitly stated, in any case.

I really need to get off my ass and read 'Autocracy', more and more stuff from it keeps coming up in IDW's current comics.

Dom
-wanted to like "Exiles".

Man, all I ever read was some summaries of stuff from that on the Wiki, and it just had me laughing so hard. Thirteen Original Transformers? More like Thirteen Original Characters Do Not Steal, am I right?

[Dominic]

And...I am currently running an examination of the thumbdrive, so I have some more time.

What, in your opinion, makes them look so 'different'?

It is a question of them not being Takara made figures *and* not being in any media. The Deluxe Insecticons and Autobots struck me as not having any "place" to go.

What do you like about Universe Swerve, out of curiosity? I actually harbor mild resentment towards that toy, seeing it as a possible end-result of the Powerlinx Blurr shitstorm, and something of a cop-out on Hasbro's part as well, in that respect.

He is a red guy who turns in to a flying red car. That is about it. Oh, and he has a Minicon. But, he has no characterization. I would not be excited to see Swerve show up anywhere unless he actually did something other than get kicked by a bigger TF or fill out a few panels alongside a character that matters.

I don't know that 'came out at the same time and has some similar ideas' counts as an official validation of 'Aligned' counting towards IDW continuity (especially since TF continuities crib ideas from each other ALL THE TIME).

My point is that the cockpits have official reason to be there, and that IDW has cribbed (to use your term) from "Alignment" in the past.

Man, all I ever read was some summaries of stuff from that on the Wiki, and it just had me laughing so hard. Thirteen Original Transformers? More like Thirteen Original Characters Do Not Steal, am I right?

Yeah, it is pretty bad.


Dom
-now to sort through recovered files.

[BWprowl]

It is a question of them not being Takara made figures *and* not being in any media. The Deluxe Insecticons and Autobots struck me as not having any "place" to go.

Ah, see I thought you were saying that they didn't mesh visually.

Anyway, the Deluxe Insecticons totally have a place to go: They're additional members of the Insecticon subgroup! Easy! It's not like they're completely without peers, the way Sky Lynx is.

He is a red guy who turns in to a flying red car. That is about it. Oh, and he has a Minicon. But, he has no characterization. I would not be excited to see Swerve show up anywhere unless he actually did something other than get kicked by a bigger TF or fill out a few panels alongside a character that matters.

So you wouldn't be interested at all to see that someone else (especially someone else with a hand in official fiction) gave a shit about this relatively obscure toy?

I think it's like, Barber could have just used the Basic Insecticons, or the Combaticons or something, for the team-filler role in this comic, and instead he chose to use these guys! That makes me sit up and take notice.

(If I ever wind up writing a published TF story one day, I WILL put the Deluxe Insecticons in in an actual role.)

My point is that the cockpits have official reason to be there, and that IDW has cribbed (to use your term) from "Alignment" in the past.

You could make that connection, I guess. I was mainly thrown off by the way the last panels seemed to be *intentionally* zooming in on Thundercracker's cockpit seat. I'd almost put it down to a faux-symbolic foreshadowing of his future association with humans, but the link is a little tenuous for me to really give Barber credit on that one. I think I was just thrown off and wound up thinking about it too much.

[Shockwave]

The Deluxe insecticons are pretty common in the Transformers smart phone battle card game. Speaking of which, is anyone besides me playing that?