TF Views

Dominic wrote:At this point, it exists almost entirely in the past tense.

True, but when analyzing the popular eras is the line's history one has to consider the entire history, not just certain parts of it. To say GI Joe was never based on real military is just plain untrue do to the fact that is started as military figures for boys, basically Hasbro's answer to Barbie for boys. And it was based on real militaria. It happened and cannot be ignored (aside from the fact that without that era of GI Joe, we wouldn't have Transformers).

GI Joe A Real American Hero's first 2 years were very military-themed, and they sold ok. But then they got more outrageous, more colorful and clever and creative, less green vehicles, and the line EXPLODED in popularity, and the cartoon came out and fit in well with that vision. GI Joe ARAH chugged along very well in the '80s, strayed into gimmicks but survived successfully until the market started to change and Hasbro tried to play the "extreme" card with bigger action gimmicks, louder colors, electronics, less cohesive vision, scrambling to do anything it could, going way off the deep end of sci-fi fantasy. Eventually the market left GI Joe ARAH behind, and Hasbro tried to change gears with the 4" line Sgt Savage and the 5" GI Joe Extreme line, both tanked and the GI Joe brand name had tarnished itself.

The line started to see light resurgences from the end of the '90s through the 2000s, but the movie's heavy reliance on a military style seemed to have killed the joy that was GI Joe ARAH-style collecting, and the line nosedived again.

I don't think kids want to re-enact their modern military video games, I don't think they care at all about the characters or the weapons, they simply play those games because they're popular and violent and they feel like they're achieving in a group activity almost akin to a sport. The settings, the trappings, the characters, those don't matter to the kids today. So GI Joe wouldn't appeal to them on any level because there isn't a true crossover interest.

Joe's first year included a guy with a laser rifle and a guy with a jetpack. To say it was "realistic" is a stretch. That said, nobody remembers those 82-83 characters (except the handful that stuck around and got later revisions, like Cobra Commander, Snake Eyes, Scarlett and Stalker); even Hasbro's own original 25th Anniversary sets were primarily made up of 84 characters like Duke, Roadblock, Destro, Baroness, Storm Shadow, etc.

Onslaught Six wrote:Joe's first year included a guy with a laser rifle and a guy with a jetpack. To say it was "realistic" is a stretch. That said, nobody remembers those 82-83 characters (except the handful that stuck around and got later revisions, like Cobra Commander, Snake Eyes, Scarlett and Stalker); even Hasbro's own original 25th Anniversary sets were primarily made up of 84 characters like Duke, Roadblock, Destro, Baroness, Storm Shadow, etc.

Yup.

True, but when analyzing the popular eras is the line's history one has to consider the entire history, not just certain parts of it.

Well, considering that my ponderings (on the way home last week) covered about a decade, and took several nights of walking (and that I think faster than I type), limiting myself to the last 6 or 7 years was kind of expedient.


-late edit: Action Force musings

I have only read some "Action Force" comics. These consisted of reprinted "European Missions" comics as well as some original printings that I blundered across as a comic shop about 15 years ago. (I still have some of them, but they are buried away. So, issue by issue thoughts are not going to happen any time soon.)

All things considered, I recall being suprised at how much less sanitized "Action Force" was than "GI Joe". Bear in mind, I had never seen UK "Actioni Force" comics until the late 90s. At that point, I was an adult, and had heard all manner of things about how restricted kid's media was in other countries, including the UK. (I am given to understand that BW was heavily sensored.)

In the US, Cobra was nominally "a ruthless terrorist organization". But, even discounting Hama's "Cobra as a fallen US", Cobra in the US had more in common with any number of secret societies shown in other comics (such as "Hydra" or "AIM") than with Hezbollah, the FARC, Baader Meinhof or the IRA.

In the UK...not so much. Maybe it was because the UK had historically been dealing more directly with terrorism for years (in the form of the IRA and other groups). But, Cobra was much more overtly "terrorist" than "mad cap". Cobra' Commander's UK origin involved him being a renamed/rebranded member the Red Shadows. (And, one of the Red Shadows was an obvious reference to "Carlos the Jackal", a real life bomb planter in the 1970s.) At least one member of Joe (I forget which one) was rebranded as being a veteran of the Falkland Islands War.

I recall one issue where a Crimson Guard walked in to a tourist cite, revealed himself and started spraying bullets around. Another story (Dan Abnett's first professional work) featured Footloose having to subdue both a Cobra agent and a bystander who was on the verge of taking matters in to his own hands. (The cartoon touched on this theme once, but without the visceral punch that Abnett gave it.)

And, despite not being written by Hama, the UK comics even seemed to get Storm Shadow as a character. (He did not kill if he could avoid it, and actually threw a fight in one issue.)


Dom
-notes that later US characters were branded as being international.

Onslaught Six wrote:Joe's first year included a guy with a laser rifle and a guy with a jetpack. To say it was "realistic" is a stretch. That said, nobody remembers those 82-83 characters (except the handful that stuck around and got later revisions, like Cobra Commander, Snake Eyes, Scarlett and Stalker); even Hasbro's own original 25th Anniversary sets were primarily made up of 84 characters like Duke, Roadblock, Destro, Baroness, Storm Shadow, etc.

ARAH's first year. GI Joe as a brand started in the early 60's and that was based on the military. GI Joe didn't become ARAH until 1982 and the brand was already 20 years old at that point.

I wonder if I'm running into that split among Joe fans that I've heard of: ie: You're either a "Kung fu grip" fan or an ARAH fan and one set of the fandom pretty much can't stand the other.

Shockwave wrote:ARAH's first year. GI Joe as a brand started in the early 60's and that was based on the military. GI Joe didn't become ARAH until 1982 and the brand was already 20 years old at that point.

I think it's a point to think about how much modern GI Joe incorporates from the Kung-Fu Grip/Military Doll era of its existence, though. Aside from Joe Colton being a character who shows up every now and then, not much. I think that's where the idea that that part of Joe is pretty much dead, buried, and not relevant to the property anymore comes from.

I wonder if I'm running into that split among Joe fans that I've heard of: ie: You're either a "Kung fu grip" fan or an ARAH fan and one set of the fandom pretty much can't stand the other.

It's silly if the two groups genuinely dislike each other, but I can definitely see why there would be a split; they're basically two completely different toylines with nothing in common but a brand-name.

Onslaught Six wrote:Joe's first year included a guy with a laser rifle and a guy with a jetpack. To say it was "realistic" is a stretch.

Actually, the Jetpack didn't come with anybody, it was a playset/vehicle type thing, and it was based directly on the actual jetpack design the military had considered for about 20 years in real life. The laser rifle required a backpack as its power source. Both the jetpack and the laser rifle were from the figure "Flash", the tech expert, so it'd make sense he'd have cutting-edge technology like that (the jetpack showing Flash as the user on the box).

The only figure that came with a non-realistic weapon was the mail-away, Cobra Commander, who came with a "laser pistol" and a sci-fi visual design.

That said, nobody remembers those 82-83 characters (except the handful that stuck around and got later revisions, like Cobra Commander, Snake Eyes, Scarlett and Stalker); even Hasbro's own original 25th Anniversary sets were primarily made up of 84 characters like Duke, Roadblock, Destro, Baroness, Storm Shadow, etc.

Rock N Roll, the Cobra trooper, and Hawk are also '82, that's like half the run. Destro, Wild Bill, Gung Ho, Major Bludd, Snow Job, and Cover Girl come from '83, and Duke was the '83 mail-away.


All that said, GI Joe did also have a military line of 12" figures in the '90s (not the ARAH-based one, the military one) that ran into the 2000s, including some good weapon packs, it has had some popularity after ARAH.

Shockwave wrote:I wonder if I'm running into that split among Joe fans that I've heard of: ie: You're either a "Kung fu grip" fan or an ARAH fan and one set of the fandom pretty much can't stand the other.

The person running GI Joe ARAH-type line right now is the Kung Fu Grip variety of fan, he even wrote a book on GI Joe 12" before joining Hasbro, his name is Derryl DePriest and he also is the top of the Star Wars brand at Hasbro, successfully running it for the last decade. Here's his book: http://www.amazon.com/Collectible-GI-Jo ... 0762405368

Ok, I'm gonna ask a stupid question, as one of the board's main Joe virgins.

Where are Cobra based? Wherever they want around the world, like Venom, or a relatively locatable place like the Decepticons?

Gomess wrote:Ok, I'm gonna ask a stupid question, as one of the board's main Joe virgins.

Where are Cobra based? Wherever they want around the world, like Venom, or a relatively locatable place like the Decepticons?

It's usually wherever they want, in early issues and in the cartoon and films. Later on in the comic, there's some comic booky bullshit that basically leads to a new landmass being created, and Cobra has their lawyers secure it and turn it into their own sovereign nation, Cobra Island.

Was it the Marvel comics that had a creepy Venture Bros "A Nice Place to Live" artificial robo-town for Cobra's base? Or was that for something else, like maybe a bomb testing site? I think it was called Springfield.

Anyway, yeah, I mainly asked because I noticed Cobra had that 80s cartoon thing of not being *explicitly* foreign- take a look at the early Autobots and Decepticons, and compare which side had more racial diversity; goodies win every time- so wondered if they'd ever just come out and said, "Yeah, Cobra's American. They all live together in this big house in Maine with a gun for a chimney and a labyrinth under it" or something.