TF Views

You have to admit, or you don't but whatever, that this book packs a goddamned ton of story into each issue.

And, none of it is good. Scioli cannot write. He cannot draw. His work is the grade of an in-house parody.

Archie vs. Predator #3 (of 4)

Stuff like this could end up diluting the "Archie" brand though. The shop I buy it is not shelving this or "Afterlife" with the other Archie books.

Archie is one fo those things that is not really worth following. But, it has a place in the market. I hope that "Archie" as a whole can keeps its place in the market (as a gateway for new readers).

I am so very far behind on this thread, so I'll just bypass since I'm barely a part of the main discussions about Secret Wars and Convergence anyway...

Still not caught up on "Secret Wars". 4, maybe 5, tie-ins sitting unread in my pile at home. 1 tie-in sitting in my pull-file along with some non-"Secret Wars" books that I am not even pretending to care about until August. And, the next issue of the core series is shipping this week, along with a tie-in or two.



And, because I was bored (and felt like wasting time), here are some miscellaneous notes on Battleworld.




General notes:

Battleworld has existed (according to explication) for about 8 years. However, Doom and Strange have
"back-written" a vague history for the planet. It holds together pretty well, provided nobody learns too much, nor asks
too many questions, about the past. Travel between zones is restricted, largely to prevent
the inherent contradictions from becoming to apparent to characters on page. Readers can
just assume that any inconsistencies they find are "okay" on page, resulting from imperfectionis
in Doom's efforts to construct a planet from broken timelines. (Battleworld is constructed
from a combination of what Doom and Strange could salvage as the multiverse collapsed.)

Battleworld exists in a geocentric system. (The sun orbits the planet.) There are few stars.

Some characters and locations are duplicated across Battleworld. In some cases, such as the
hoardes of Thors and Hulks, the repititions are recognized on page. In others, such as the
various Spider-Man variants, it is best assumed that characters either do not (or at least
should not) know.


(Note: This post is based on what I have read or flipped through. The "counts" below are almost
certainly too low.) The listings for teams count zones with members or associated characters,
not individual characters. Unless a series is confirmed by Marvel, assume that I am just
speculating about upcoming or follow up series.

Battleworld map:
http://www.marvel616politics.com/wp-con ... -597dd.jpg


New Yorks: 7

Spider-Men (Peter Parker): 2

Iron Men: 4

Captain America: 3

x-MEN (team and related characters): 10

New Warriors (various members): 3


Technopolis (5):
Setting of "Armor Wars". Ruled by Tony Stark, contested by Wilson Fisk and Arno Stark.
Everybody wears armor.

Spider Island (7):
Setting of "Spider-Verse". Home of many "Spider variants", including Spider-Gwen. At least
some of the inhabitants are the "original" iterations of characters, as evidenced by the fact
they have vague memories of their native (and presumably destroyed) timelines. Smart money
says that the spider-powered Gwen Stacy will be getting a new series (set in an alternate
timeline) when "Secret Wars" ends. Additionally, Gwen Stacy found her own grave, the idea being
that she ended up in an area that combines elements of her home with a timeline in which she died.

Regency (8):
Setting of "Renew Your Vows". Assumes that Peter and MJ Parker's marriage was never cancelled
out in "One More Day", and that they have a daughter. Peter Parker is one of a few, possibly
only, superhumans left. Could work as the foundation of a setting for an isolated
"Spider-Man only" book.

K'un Lun (11):
Setting of "Master of Kung Fu". Applies a retro-70s "orientalism" to various characters in a
martial arts genre riff.

Utopolis (12):
Setting of the "Squadron Sinister", includes two variants of the Squadron and some "New Universe"
characters. At least one member of the team will be carried over in to the "Squadron
Supreme" series announced for this fall.

Manhattan (20):
Setting of "Ultimate End", combining elements of 616 and "Ultimate" Marvel. Described
as being a specifically "New York" themed area, rather than an area that includes a variant
of NYC.

Warzone (22):
Setting of the upcoming "Civil War" tie-in, calling back to the Millar written series from last
decade.

2099 (27):
Setting of "Avengers 2099". There is at least one "2099" themed book announced for post-
"Secret Wars", and Marvel frequently pushes the 2099 brand.

Monarchy of M (29):
Setting of the "House of M" series, which calls back to a past series by Bendis. could
be the foundation for an "X-character" themes series.

Westchester (33):
Setting of "X-Men '92". Possible foundation of a self-contained "X" series.

Limbo (37):
Setting of, "Inferno", referencing an older "X-Men" arc of the same name.

The Shield (41):
Setting of several series, including "the Siege", "Marvel Zombies" and "Age of Ultron v/s Marvel
Zombies". In more or less perpectual conflict with the Deadlands (38), Perfection (39) and New Xandar (40).

It sounds a lot like the plot of Convergence. Everyone on one planet with different versions of themselves, and minis that revisit high points and storylines in Marvel's history.

In base concept, yes.

But, there are differences in tone.

In "Convergence", the controller (Braniac/Telos) demanded A FIGHT TO THE DEATH BETWEEN UNIVERSES. In "Secret Wars", Doom set up the planet specifically to contain fights. Some zones may be nicer than others. But, Doom's over-all goal is preventing (or at least containing) conflict. (He made Battleworld and wants to keep it.)

The last thing Doom wants is for somebody to meet their alternate self and start asking questions. In "Ultimate End", the back-written history of Manhattan is that 616 and 1610 got fused as a result of wreckless experiments in interdimensional science. The heroes of the two cities are trying to undo the damage, and Doom's Thor army shows up. Obviously, Doom cannot allow further tinkering (as splitting the merged city would be impossible). The Thors tell the Manhattan heroes (616 and 1610) to learn to live with it, and to be more careful in the future. (Later, the Tony Starks of both cities are talking, and note that Doom has destroyed zones that have gotten too far out of hand.)



There are also differences in structure. With "Secret Wars", there is no "necessary" series or book. Every tie-in gets the same info-dump (a much compressed summary of Hickman's lead-in and the incrusions). But, unless one cares about Easter Eggs, there is no need to read more than one series.

Dominic wrote:In "Convergence", the controller (Braniac/Telos) demanded A FIGHT TO THE DEATH BETWEEN UNIVERSES. In "Secret Wars", Doom set up the planet specifically to contain fights. Some zones may be nicer than others. But, Doom's over-all goal is preventing (or at least containing) conflict. (He made Battleworld and wants to keep it.)

Makes you wonder why Doom decided to call it "Battleworld" if the idea is to contain different zones and prevent conflict between them...

There are also differences in structure. With "Secret Wars", there is no "necessary" series or book. Every tie-in gets the same info-dump (a much compressed summary of Hickman's lead-in and the incrusions). But, unless one cares about Easter Eggs, there is no need to read more than one series.

So how is that really any different from what Convergence did? I mean, none of those tie-ins were necessary to read with the main title, and all of them had the same basic introduction with Telos telling the domed cities to battle it out to see which deserves to exist.

I'm not being critical of Secret Wars, just noting the similarities with interest.

andersonh1 wrote:I'm not being critical of Secret Wars, just noting the similarities with interest.

Yeah, I've been seeing a lot of people online pointing out similarities between the two as well. Just interesting how both Marvel and DC ended up having such similar events to one another this year.

JediTricks wrote:Batman '66 #21 (yeah, that far behind) - AMAZING! Batman has to leave Robin at home and team up with Batgirl following a lead to Japan, where they pick up the very sexy Batmobile-J and find Lord Death Man waiting. This issue had a great pace, a very authentic voice and look to the tv show, and yet a unique setting that only the comics could achieve. The art was just right, not too stylized, not too realistic, not too plain. And the story let the enemy be just risky enough for our heroes, letting the humor come from how the characters respond to situations. I wasn't in love with the art on Batgirl's face, it just didn't seem right, but at the same time it didn't hold me up at all either.

I didn't think this story worked very well for this version of Batman when I first read it, and my thoughts are a number of pages back in this thread. However, having seen a number of season one episodes and having noted the mix of tones in the actual tv series, I think my opinion has changed. Every now and then even the Adam West Batman gets a bit serious, and so an issue that does the same works for me.

Makes you wonder why Doom decided to call it "Battleworld" if the idea is to contain different zones and prevent conflict between them...

On page, "Battleworld" is a slang used by the inhabitants. Doom minimizes interaction and conflict between zones. But, one of the few consistent things is that Doom benignly neglects zones that he is not directly interacting with. (Issue three specifies that Doom is more or less all powerful, but not all seeing.)

So how is that really any different from what Convergence did? I mean, none of those tie-ins were necessary to read with the main title, and all of them had the same basic introduction with Telos telling the domed cities to battle it out to see which deserves to exist.

"Secret Wars" does not even need that much to unify it though. Most of the zone specific stories do not reference other zones, let along events from other books. Even "Ultimate End" only makes vague reference to how Doom has managed other zones that got too far out of hand.

"the Siege" is likely to reference other zones, by virtue of being about the guys who are trying to contain the horrors of Battleworld's south pole. (Technically, Battleworld would not have a magnetic north or south. But, you get the idea.)



Battleworld is likely to be the zero point for a new Marvel multiverse. I just hope they keep Battleworld intact when the series ends. (It has too much potential as a setting.)

Dominic wrote:On page, "Battleworld" is a slang used by the inhabitants. Doom minimizes interaction and conflict between zones. But, one of the few consistent things is that Doom benignly neglects zones that he is not directly interacting with. (Issue three specifies that Doom is more or less all powerful, but not all seeing.)

There is maybe one reference to it being actually named Latverion, but on page, they say most people call it Batteworld. No matter how you look at it, it's an odd thing to call the world if the interaction and conflict between province's is kept minimal.

"Secret Wars" does not even need that much to unify it though. Most of the zone specific stories do not reference other zones, let along events from other books. Even "Ultimate End" only makes vague reference to how Doom has managed other zones that got too far out of hand.

Secret Wars doesn't need much of what to unify it? You said each tie-in all had the same info-dump. How's that any different from Telos giving the same basic run down in all of the Convergence titles? And you are downplaying this somewhat. Ultimate End does more than just a vague reference to what Doom does to province's that get out of hand. The Thor Corps shows up on behalf of Lord Doom to tell them to stop the dimensional shenanigans they've been up to or face the consequences. Besides, Secret Wars is a much longer event than Convergence was. I doubt everything will stay isolated.

"Convergence" had the earthquakes in the second half. I am skeptical that "Secret Wars" is going to have that sort of "sync" moment. If nothing else, the books vary wildly in style and tone. Of course, time will tell.

The Thors are omni-present, but no appearance in one book relies on any others. At most, there may be a throwaway line in "Thors" about how the lead Thor was killed in issue 2 of "Secret Wars". But, it will not be relevant. Stuff like "Ghost Racers" (which is much better than one might reasonably expect), is likely to be self-contained to the end.

There is maybe one reference to it being actually named Latverion, but on page, they say most people call it Batteworld. No matter how you look at it, it's an odd thing to call the world if the interaction and conflict between province's is kept minimal.

The individual zones have little enough interaction (aside from highly regulated trade, broadcasts of the Ghost Races or the obligatory smuggling). But, most of the zones have internal conflict or have been defined by some past conflict. The Thors seem to largely ignore internal conflicts. (The Thor native to a given zone might look in to something. But, the Thors generally seem to focus on regulating at a global level.)