TF Views

Well it depends on the type of plastic. I've actually got two that I've worked with. The opaque stuff molds in white uncolored and can come out with hardnesses varying between the consistency of a TF part to the consistency of a gummy bear. The clear stuff molds clear like glass uncolored and is about as tough as you can get for plastic. It's hardness is listed as nigh indestructible and it's so far held up to everything I've thrown at it.

Punch/Counterpunch (robot/robot/sports car) review:

And, after only 3, maybe 4, months!

Punch/Counterpunch is one of two Fan Club exclusive figures old by Fun Publications this year. (The other is “Shattered Glass” Cyclonus, which I am skipping on principle, mould be damned.) As is the case with most other Fan Club/Convention toys, Punch/Counterpunch is based on a character from the original series.

The character’s gimmick is that he is an Autobot who infiltrates the Decepticons. The character profile, (old and new), notes the toll this takes on him mentally. While this could be criticized as making the character needlessly grim, it is preferable to having Punch/Counterpunch being a power gamer style Mary Sue. In action figure terms, this translates into a Transformer with 2 robot modes and 1 vehicle mode.

Punch/Counterpunch uses the same body as TFU Sideswipe and Sunstreaker, “Timelines” Breakdown and Sideswipe, and (the upcoming) “Geneerations” Red Alert. In other words, I am very much disposed towards liking this toy. (No joke. I will at least try to get my hands on pretty much any toy made from this mould. The only reason I have not purchased a “Timelines” Sideswipe is that I cannot afford/justify upwards of $500 on a toy.) In any case, the mould is especially appropriate for Punch/Counterpunch as it was designed to have two distinct robot forms.

I am not sure who the first person to recognize the potential for making Punch/Counterpunch from the Sunstreaker/Sideswipe mould was, not who the first person to actually complete said custom was. But, there are more than a few of them to be found on line. (I made one about 2 years back. However, I no longer have the figure and thus cannot take pictures of it for this blog.)

When this figure was announced by the Fan Club, the response from the fandom was overwhelmingly positive, though there was no small amount of suspicion. Early photos of the toy were notable for not showing the robot mode head(s). And, (based on past experience with the Fan Club), there were concerns about various quality control problems. (As much as I like this mould, I will not dispute that it has many points of failure.)

Sadly, at least some of the initial concerns were born out. While the sculpt and engineering on the robot head(s) are better than average, (the head itself has two forms), the scale is off. My best guess as to what happened is that there were too few revisions between the initial design and production stages. The result is a figure with a comically under-sized head. This would be bad enough with a mass released toy. But, in the case of Punch/Counterpunch it is made all the worse by the cost of the figure (I paid ~$80USD) and the fact that the head is the first thing most people would be looking at on this particular figure.

The “true” Autobot robot form uses the Sideswipe configuration, (car hood as robot chest). The mal-proportioned noggin is very apparent in this form. All things considered, it is amazing that the Sideswipe and Red Alert figures look as good as they do. However, in the case of Punch/Counterpunch, the head was clearly sculpted as an ill-planned after-thought. (On a more stylized figure, the under-sized head might work. But, as a “Timelines” figure based on a figure with a mainstream design, it fails utterly.) The Decepticon “infiltration” mode uses the Sunstreaker configuration (car roof as robot chest). If one does not look to hard, (or if they simply do not know what to look for), the robot’s head is passably in scale in this form.
Sideswipe and Sunstreaker:
http://www.myspace.com/dominionhub/photos/52539013
Sideswipe with (custom) Tiger Track:
http://www.myspace.com/dominionhub/photos/52538942
Sunstreaker with (custom) Spinout:
http://www.myspace.com/dominionhub/photos/52538800


It is a damned shame that the head is so out of scale, as the sculpting and engineering are spot-on. The top of the head is on a hinge, and flips back and forth, effectively giving the robot form a built-in alternate head. (This same gimmick was tried early in the “Beast Wars” line, but was rarely successful.

Both robot modes use the same hands. In other words, unless somebody is willing to pop and swap the hands, one robot mode is always going to have wrongly place thumbs. (I have not heard any accounts of this figure shipping with two left or two right hands. But, it could easily happen. Ask a seller to check for this before committing to buying the figure.)

The official Decepticon configuration requires that the legs be set in a position never intended for the original design. (Sunstreaker and Sideswipe have the same leg configuration.) The intention is to allow for the two robot modes to be more easily differentiated. The result is that the Decepticon configuration stands awkwardly.

Punch/Counterpunch as two rub-sign stickers, one for each faction, on the respective robot mode chests. The stickers do not look good in either form, and look a bit worse on the Autobot configuration. Even without really looking for problems, (or even knowing to look for them), it is obvious that the stickers were not intended to be applied to this figure. That fact that the Autobot form’s chest was clearly made to have a (differently proportioned) sigil applied only serves to accentuate the poor planning that went into this part of the design and execution of an $80 figure.

In theory, it would be possible to cover the unused sigil in either form, as well as the car form. However, the official transform configurations would not allow for this. The Sunstreaker/Sideswipe mould has a removable chunk of engine that connects to the back of the robot forms. At the very least, this serves to (sort of) paper over the fact that the chest of one is the back of the other.
Spinout and Sideswipe:
http://www.myspace.com/dominionhub/photos/52539331
Sunstreaker and Tigertrack:
http://www.myspace.com/dominionhub/photos/52558996

The Fan Club opted to incorporate the engine chunk into the robot mode weapons as a way to give both robot modes unique weapons, meaning the engine cannot be used to hide unused faction sigils. The trade-off for this would be easier to deal with if not for the fact that the engine does not stay connected to the gun very well. (Truth be told, I am not sure if the original design intended for this. I am 90% sure that the instructions for Sideswipe and Sunstreaker do not mention it. But, I would have to find my copies to be sure.)

This is the only toy I can think of that I deliberately ignore the official transformation. (There are plenty of toys that I might get lazy about. And, I forget transform steps all the time. But, with Punch/Counterpunch, I *know* what I am doing is against orthodoxy. But, orthodoxy is stupid in this case, so I do not care.)

The cae mode is passable. It is almost completely blue. Even the headlights are painted over in blue. (And, no, it does not look like articulated light covers. It looks like the damned headlights have been painted over in blue.) The vehicle mode is more Decepticon than Autobot. But, that objectively makes sense from a “maintain the disguise” angle.

Many of the design choices on this figure would be forgivable in a custom figure made with limited resources and skill. For a professional, (and expensive), toy to have these problems is another matter. There is no good reason the head should be out of proportion. It would have been nice to have transforming hands, rather than having to swap them between forms. There are knock-off toys with more gracefully applied faction stickers. The official leg configuration for the Decepticon robot mode is awkward enough that it should have been ruled out. The damned headlights are painted over.

If all of this were not enough, I have heard more than one credible account of the mechanisms connecting the head and chest being misaligned.


This toy gets a whole lot of buzz and praise from the fandom. And, I am favorably inclined towards the base mould. (Part of my motivation in ordering this toy was to get every major iteration, if not every pressing, of the base mould.) But, there are far too many problems with this toy for me to recommend anyone go out and buy it, even if the (exorbitant) price were not a factor. Unless somebody is a completist, or has a thing for faction-switcher toys, Punch/Counterpunch is best avoided.

Grade: C/D
Cost: ~$80. But, expect to pay more on eBay.

The head/chest mechanism is repleat throughout releases of this mold. I have three consecutively that had that problem (henkei Red Alert, henkei Sunstreaker and Universe Sideswipe). It is fixable, but on a figure that expensive, you really shouldn't have to. I'm just glad that the Botcon Breakdown didn't have that problem. With the legs, were you trying to have the proper front of the waist for that mode, because it doesn't really work if you do, I've fiddled with reversing Sideswipe and discovered that leaving the back of the waist as the front seems to work fine for the other configuration.

Even if you flip the waist, the leg configuration is still awkward. And, flipping the waist looks way more like a fan mode than an official mode should.

The fact that the chest/head assembly issue is quality control makes it harder to forgive on later pressings of the mould. I could forgive it on Sunstreaker, (the first release of the mould), because Hasbro might not have known to look for it. But, on a later pressing of the mould (convention/club figure or not) it damned well needs to be done correctly.


Dom
-still gives points for a great design, execution be damned.

I honestly don't understand why you fans let these folks take such horrible advantage of you. Any "C" grade figure that costs 8 times what the original did just a few years ago should be treated as an "F" and Hasbro should be held accountable for allowing this sort of abuse of the fan community to happen under their licensee and through their name and factory. I am just not that kind of fan, I guess.

To be fair, I've never bought such a thing. Clench and Pyro are the first Botcon toys I've 'ever' bought, and that's because these are likely to be the only Clench and Pyro toys ever made again. (I didn't even get Skyquake last year, and he's likely to be the only Skyquake we ever get, too--I didn't get him because he sucked.)

To expand on what O6 said, these are likely to be the only versions of these characters that we get (at least in an officially made context) so I suppose you could say they get added points for the fact that they even saw the light of day. Hasbro isn't going to do P/CP at retail so if fans want one without customizing, this is your only option. But at least we have this as an option.

The other thing to remember is that Fan Club and Convention figures are often effectively blind-buys. Remember, there were no shots of PCP's head before the figure came out. I had already ordered one months before. (Yes, that is foolish...but.) And, the QC issues with the tranaform mechanism were impossible to predict before handling the toy.

Much the same applies to BotCon toys.

Dom
-also has an obsession with that mould.

Shockwave wrote:To expand on what O6 said, these are likely to be the only versions of these characters that we get (at least in an officially made context) so I suppose you could say they get added points for the fact that they even saw the light of day. Hasbro isn't going to do P/CP at retail so if fans want one without customizing, this is your only option. But at least we have this as an option.

The only versions, aside from the ORIGINALS, which are hard to find, yes, but do exist and aren't heavily sought-after. They are taking advantage of a small market when they deliver sub-quality figures at huge markup for the reasons you guys are giving here. Are these really Clench and Pyro? No, they're figures we got recently in a different deco and with a different headsculpt for ONE of them. They don't have their sculpts or their gimmicks, they certainly aren't the price those originally were, so what are you getting? And is it really SO important that you get Clench and Pyro? Will your collections be incomplete if they never made modern versions of those 2? Pyro is hardly important to any continuity, and Clench is hardly IN any continuity. Pyro's toy doesn't even get to enjoy the damned name.

And yeah, it's kinda neat that they did Punch/Counterpunch, but honestly, it's inexcusable that Hasbro doesn't do that figure themselves, this was REALLY obvious from day 1 of seeing how the mold worked for Sideswipe, at SDCC '08 I believe they were talking about how the mold was able to get 2 different transformations out of it. There's no reason this figure couldn't have been done at retail except Hasbro didn't feel like it, and now fans get gouged on an exclusive that would have likely been delivered better had it been a mainline.

Dominic wrote:The other thing to remember is that Fan Club and Convention figures are often effectively blind-buys.

That is an excuse to be burned ONCE, not year after year after year.

Remember, there were no shots of PCP's head before the figure came out. I had already ordered one months before. (Yes, that is foolish...but.) And, the QC issues with the tranaform mechanism were impossible to predict before handling the toy.

Much the same applies to BotCon toys.

Impossible to predict unless you took a look at how previous Botcon and OTFCC exclusives have come out in the past. If enough fans stopped putting up with that shit, it wouldn't keep happening. They enable, and it keeps happening, which makes the fans look like suckers, and that's not fair, they're just having their desperation preyed upon.

-also has an obsession with that mould.

Yes, and now it's an especially expensive one considering that was a $10 mold when it came out 2 years ago.

JediTricks wrote:And is it really SO important that you get Clench and Pyro? Will your collections be incomplete if they never made modern versions of those 2? Pyro is hardly important to any continuity, and Clench is hardly IN any continuity. Pyro's toy doesn't even get to enjoy the damned name.

No, but I don't give a damn if my collection is complete or not.

Here's the thing: I like Clench and Pyro's original toys. They look cool. But there's almost no way I'll ever be able to afford the originals, especially in the shape I'd want them in, and they're unlikely to ever get reissued. They're also obscure enough that the chances of them ever getting a figure in the mainline or a subline like Generations is pretty slim.

And sure--they're just remoulds or repaints of toys I already own. But I like those toys, too, and they're well done homages. They're good toys, and I wanted them.

And yeah, it's kinda neat that they did Punch/Counterpunch, but honestly, it's inexcusable that Hasbro doesn't do that figure themselves, this was REALLY obvious from day 1 of seeing how the mold worked for Sideswipe, at SDCC '08 I believe they were talking about how the mold was able to get 2 different transformations out of it. There's no reason this figure couldn't have been done at retail except Hasbro didn't feel like it, and now fans get gouged on an exclusive that would have likely been delivered better had it been a mainline.

There's nothing that says Hasbro *wouldn't* have done that if the Club weren't a bunch of fanboys who can't keep their figurative dicks in their pants.