TF Views

There's also the question of hobbled or prosthetic limbs. In some interpretations, Impactor's harpoon-hand is portrayed as an equivalent to a hook-hand, a replacement for an extremity that was lost and can't be replaced for some reason. There's also stuff like Thundertron's peg leg, which in the case of the toy is clearly there simply as part of his visual 'pirate' motif, but makes you wonder why a robot would choose to be missing one foot.

There's also the case of Ratchet in MTMTE, and how he was effectively suffering from MS in the early issues, before he co-opted Pharma's hands.

BWprowl wrote:There's also the question of hobbled or prosthetic limbs. In some interpretations, Impactor's harpoon-hand is portrayed as an equivalent to a hook-hand, a replacement for an extremity that was lost and can't be replaced for some reason. There's also stuff like Thundertron's peg leg, which in the case of the toy is clearly there simply as part of his visual 'pirate' motif, but makes you wonder why a robot would choose to be missing one foot.

There's also the case of Ratchet in MTMTE, and how he was effectively suffering from MS in the early issues, before he co-opted Pharma's hands.

G-1 Shockwave lost his hand & turned it into a laser canon hand.

Several Beastwars Characters in robot modes don't have hands,Some use claws,beast heads & tails. BW 1996 bw megatron uses a beast head for one hand & a beast tail weapon for the other hand.

MTMTE Optimus & Megatron can swap out their normal hand for a prosthetic Energon Melee weapon like a AX or a ball & chain weapon.
Hot Rod can Swap out his hand for a saw blade type melee weapon. Other TF G-1 characters in the media/toy line can do similar things.

Most people have hit on the most prominent examples already, but there's also the question of permanent disability vs. temporary disability. Obviously for Sunstreaker and Bumblebee (IDW) it was temporary. For Shockwave and Menasor (split personality) it's permanent. And injuries sustained in battle can cause permanent disabilities. Starscream in Prime not having a transformation cog was certainly portrayed as a disability. I'm going with the reasonable camp. I mean, we can't fix everything that can happen to a human body, so why would it be assumed that everything can be fixed on a Transformer? Like JT said, there could be an issue with parts not being available, or, as described in Prime with Bumblebee's TCog, it could be that some parts are so complex that they can't be replaced or repaired. And even looking at this from a technological standpoint, even here on Earth, there reaches a certain point with our devices where it becomes more cost effective to replace an item rather than repair it.

JediTricks wrote:But this isn't an all-inclusive reflection of humanity, these aren't thinly veiled references to how all humans are worthwhile in their own way, these are machines whose bodies are robotics, not organic flesh and blood.

They have *noses*.

EDIT: Sorry if you guys were expecting a more interesting reply, but I think the question's a bit redundant. There have been handicapped Transformers, and there will continue to be handicapped Transformers. As I implied with the "noses" crack, they're clearly not just "robotic"; they are meant to be representations of humans, and always have been. Look at what shape they are. As such, it would be nice for them to reflect the inherent diversity of humans. This has happened more in recent years; a character like Animated Bulkhead just wouldn't have been a concept in the original G1 cartoon. Of course, it also runs into trouble when it's carried out in a simplistic manner, such as Bay's cavalcade of racism. But implying that TFs are "fine" as two-legged five-fingered muscularly-masculinely-statured robots is just... smh

Always liked Wheeljack's ears. And Shockwave's eye.

Gomess wrote:They have *noses*.

Not in Prime they don't.

And anyway: olfactory sensors. Look, just discount that TFs don't have visible ears and can still sense sound and just roll with it, okay?

Spoiler

Though honestly, yeah, TFs having noses always bothered me a bit too. It's one of those things you just can't think about. Same with their teeth.

Tigermegatron wrote:As far as finding more Transformers who are physically handicapped,I think Primus & Unicron are decent examples depending on the alternate universe story their in. Unicron became physically handicapped after the 1986 movie & was just a floating head. Unicron wasn't dead,was still alive & could still think in season 3. Primus in various alternate Universe has his body trapped inside cybertron. Primus's body is still their but it can't move. primus needed to rely on his mental powers to create extensions of himself by giving each of his creations a small portion of his spark to make them become alive. in the case of the AEC universe both Unicron & Primus are able to transform from planets into robots but most of the time this requires a huge energy source or repairs are needed. this transformation into the bigger robot is only Temporary. So when AEC Primus & Unicron are low on energy or need extreme repairs their bodies are in Physically handicapped positions until they get repaired or get that huge energy given to them.

Primus I'll give you, he's locked. AEC sure, that too, but the Unicron Trilogy really isn't a great source on these things considering it felt like EVERY Transformer was handicapped by animation and writing.

Onslaught Six wrote:

And what about Megatron in the movies? He's clearly handicapped in 2 and 3 yet still is treated as a viable threat

In 3, I'd agree, but in 2? He seems like he's in good shape there. (You might be thinking of some of the toys, which gave him a gimp arm, but that got removed from the movie.)

Taking off on Deathy's post a little bit, Wheelie's rhyming has occasionally, in various comics, been portrayed as a symptom of PTSD.

His gimpy arm isn't actually in the 2nd movie? Ok, then I guess you could count being DEAD as a handicap. I think it is gimpy in the film though, not as super gimpy as the toys, but still, compare this: http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2 ... _TRotF.jpg
to this: http://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/images2/b/b ... ronSam.jpg
same scrawnier arm.

That's not a bad idea about Wheelie, but he usually seems kinda happy-go-lucky, if that's part of his PTSD then that gives it a VERY dark twist. Yikes.

BWprowl wrote:One example that hasn't been mentioned yet is Emirate Xaaron. Remember how because he was so old and hadn't used his altmode in so long, transforming was more or less out of the question for him? The idea was that the strain transforming would put on his body would kill him. Not sure how 'handicapped' it would count as, but it could be likened to...having a joint antrophy from lack of use, or something.

Also, how has no one mentioned the IDW Ongoing yet? That's the series that gave us hobbled Bumblebee with a cane, and Sunstreaker in a wheelchair complete with a service animal! I think in both cases the reasoning given was that there just weren't enough resources at the time to 'fully' repair either of them.

Xaaron's just rusty. Naw, that's a good point though. I dunno about those characters in the current IDW series - I didn't know that about Sunstreaker, but I knew about Bumblebee with the cane - but if they're only temporarily handicapped, that does take away from the point, as Dom pointed out.

BWprowl wrote:There's also the question of hobbled or prosthetic limbs. In some interpretations, Impactor's harpoon-hand is portrayed as an equivalent to a hook-hand, a replacement for an extremity that was lost and can't be replaced for some reason. There's also stuff like Thundertron's peg leg, which in the case of the toy is clearly there simply as part of his visual 'pirate' motif, but makes you wonder why a robot would choose to be missing one foot.

There's also the case of Ratchet in MTMTE, and how he was effectively suffering from MS in the early issues, before he co-opted Pharma's hands.

Yes, good point, peg legs are right on the money. TM does point out that a harpoon hand or a laser hand is somewhat of an upgrade. Then again, is it really, is Shockwave's laser hand not some level of impediment? He can't drive stick shift.

What happened to Ratchet though???

Shockwave wrote:Most people have hit on the most prominent examples already, but there's also the question of permanent disability vs. temporary disability. Obviously for Sunstreaker and Bumblebee (IDW) it was temporary. For Shockwave and Menasor (split personality) it's permanent. And injuries sustained in battle can cause permanent disabilities. Starscream in Prime not having a transformation cog was certainly portrayed as a disability. I'm going with the reasonable camp. I mean, we can't fix everything that can happen to a human body, so why would it be assumed that everything can be fixed on a Transformer? Like JT said, there could be an issue with parts not being available, or, as described in Prime with Bumblebee's TCog, it could be that some parts are so complex that they can't be replaced or repaired. And even looking at this from a technological standpoint, even here on Earth, there reaches a certain point with our devices where it becomes more cost effective to replace an item rather than repair it.

The T-cog was eventually replaced though, those aren't permanently-handicapped characters, and I guess that's the difference I end up seeing. Unlike organics, are machines built by machines so complex that they can't be rebuilt? I guess old models like Kup have been shown to be obsolete in some ways, but he generally seems functional despite the complaining.

Gomess wrote:They have *noses*.

EDIT: Sorry if you guys were expecting a more interesting reply, but I think the question's a bit redundant. There have been handicapped Transformers, and there will continue to be handicapped Transformers. As I implied with the "noses" crack, they're clearly not just "robotic"; they are meant to be representations of humans, and always have been. Look at what shape they are. As such, it would be nice for them to reflect the inherent diversity of humans. This has happened more in recent years; a character like Animated Bulkhead just wouldn't have been a concept in the original G1 cartoon. Of course, it also runs into trouble when it's carried out in a simplistic manner, such as Bay's cavalcade of racism. But implying that TFs are "fine" as two-legged five-fingered muscularly-masculinely-statured robots is just... smh

Always liked Wheeljack's ears. And Shockwave's eye.

They don't always have noses, as Prowl pointed out. But they are only given humanoid appearance to be relatable to the audience, not actually meant to be surrogates for them. The brand started with a line that had characters like Optimus Prime being mere mechs in Diaclone (Ratchet/Ironhide don't even have faces at all!), and another line that had non humanoid bot modes like Laserbeak and Ravage in Micro Change. There were also no GIRL robots in the origins of the line, so no mating was possible, another notable difference. And the only ethnic differences that are blatant are Autobot and Decepticon, so again it's not an exact 1:1 here. It's not like G1 was a hater here, they included Chip Chase because it was the '80s and that was pretty advanced for diversity.

I'm surprised Bay's Transformers didn't have homosexual robots that were equally offensive. Or was that what was going on with Wheelie and Brains in the 3rd movie?

Does Shockwave's single eye mean he doesn't have stereoscopic vision, or does he have alternate sensors that compensate?

That's not a bad idea about Wheelie, but he usually seems kinda happy-go-lucky, if that's part of his PTSD then that gives it a VERY dark twist. Yikes.

In most continuities, Wheelie's ship crashes and his parents die. He's already pretty dark.

What happened to Ratchet though???

He got old. And, presumably, repetitive, complex motions with his hands, basically wore them down until they were almost useless. (Then they killed some other guy and Ratchet took his hands.)

I guess old models like Kup have been shown to be obsolete in some ways, but he generally seems functional despite the complaining.

Actually, in IDW, they couldn't fix him after they saved him from that crystal radiation zombie planet. Eventually they had to actually use Pretender tech to fix him--basically his new body is a Pretender shell around his old one. And he's given psychotropic drugs by Prowl and Perceptor to keep him from constantly going insane. It's pretty cool, and I'm sad that he got offed unceremoniously in Infestation.

Always liked Wheeljack's ears. And Shockwave's eye.

And, that is kind of my point. Shockwave is definitely not built to spec.

TFs are shown to vary so much *more* than people that the property can include a variety of character types/classes without going for lazy disability allegory and such.

On the other hand, it could be a good allegory for economics. Shockwave has a single eye and a gun-hand. He is well armed, but at cost in motor-skill and fuel efficiency. The one eye is probably used for aiming or somethng. Wheeljack's ears (which I always saw as antennae) give him better comms (one way or another), but they are probably breakable.

That's not a bad idea about Wheelie, but he usually seems kinda happy-go-lucky, if that's part of his PTSD then that gives it a VERY dark twist. Yikes

Welcome to IDW.

Along similar lines, what about IDW Arcee?

What happened to Ratchet though???

I can send those comics along soon.

In any case, short version: Ratchet developed serious difficulties with his hands. In convenient narrative fashion, he ran across an old colleague of his who had really good hands and....who happened to have gone bad. There was a scuffle. Ratchet took the guy's hands.

guess old models like Kup have been shown to be obsolete in some ways, but he generally seems functional despite the complaining.

In IDW it was shown as a serious point of failure. Kup would be fine unless something happend to a specific part. He was so outdated that even normally simple repairs were impossible of at least difficult. When he was significantly damaged by radiation, there was little that could be done for him. (And, then his arc came to a stupid end in "Infestation", which is a handicap similar to your comments about the UT.)


Dom
-what about Duocons?

Dominic wrote:

Always liked Wheeljack's ears. And Shockwave's eye.

And, that is kind of my point. Shockwave is definitely not built to spec.

TFs are shown to vary so much *more* than people that the property can include a variety of character types/classes without going for lazy disability allegory and such.

On the other hand, it could be a good allegory for economics. Shockwave has a single eye and a gun-hand. He is well armed, but at cost in motor-skill and fuel efficiency. The one eye is probably used for aiming or somethng.

When did you drop MTMTE? It's been revealed, at least in the IDW universe, that Shockwave's look is the result of a procedure of mutilation done to Cybertronians who commit crimes against the state/council and the like (it was revealed that Orion Pax's conspicuously-unnamed Senator friend was a pre-fix Shockwave); they swap out their heads and one or both of their hands with expressionless eye-boxes and guns or claws. As you can guess, Whirl was another victim of this practice.

So basically, it's handicapping as punishment, and actually ties into our discussion here.

I was using Shockwave of a generic example of trade-offs. He has unique advantages and disadvantages.

IDW's Shockwave is a good example. (Although, it was as much about marking the offender as actually crippling them.)


Dom