TF Views

Awesome Tread topic,allow me to add my 2 cents. I'll post a short list of some stuff,as a full/complete list would be too long to read & take up way too much space here.

What I think was the worst of 2012,as far as TF goes:
1- Rescue bots toys/cartoons
2- Wasting a big toy slot on TFP Weaponizers bumblebee,when we could have got a decepticon big toy.
3-All the Cyber verse toys for TF Prime.
4- IDW TF comics for MMTMTE & RID.
5- Hasbro refusing to sell TFP Voyager Breakdown & Gaia Unicron.
6- TFCC/Fun pub & that super exspensive club subscription thing with 75% of the toys being colored like garbage.
7- F-ugly Botcon 2012 convention toys.
8-Botshots.
9-TFCC/Fun Pub acting like scalpers & ruthless business men taking to new higher level of scum bag in 2012.

What I think are the Best of 2012,as far as TF goes:
1-Weaponizers TFP Optimus prime. Hands down the best TFP toy in 2012.
2- More than 75% of the TFP Voyagers were more hit than miss. I counted 11 new molds including the takara exclusives.
3- FOC Video game.
4- IDW Regeneration comics.
5- SDCC Bruticus gift set.
6- Hasbro giving fans a second chance to buy the FE & GDO TF toys at TRU stores in America.
7- TFP season 2 Cartoon series.
8- TFP Rid deluxes for Airachnid & Vechicon.
9- Hasbro's TRU releases of MP Thundercracker & MP Optimus Prime.

Yeah I do have to agree that Fall Of Cybertron was one of the most fun parts of Transformers this year. For as much as everyone bitched about watered down abilities and play modes the massively upgraded character customization system in multiplayer was worth the price of admission right there. Followed by DLC that included the long awaited Dinobots. When that DLC hit, EVRBODY bought it. MP was like watching what it would be like if Michael Bay directed Jurassic Park. Robot dinosaurs everywhere trying to blow the crap out of each other. There's just no part of that that's not awesome.

It's hard to pick a best and worst out of my Transformers purchases this year. My participation in the hobby has consisted largely of the IDW comic series, all three of which are excellent.

So, my best:
- MTMTE, RID, Regeneration One
- Transformers Prime season 2 - in progress, but really enjoying it so far
- I think Legends G1 Prime is the only TF I've actually bought this year, so I guess it's the best. It is a pretty good figure for the size.

Worst
- no opinion. Everything I bought was good.

Onslaught Six wrote:And yeah, Prowl, you are stretching a bit to say Prime is "G1 based." It's certainly full of dudes named and designed after G1 guys, sure, but I do have to commend them for guys like Knock Out and Brakedown (who might have the name of some guy, but is clearly a different dude).

Oh yeah, Knock Out and Brakedown are totally commendable. I mean, a red car guy and a blue car guy? Brilliant, they’re really pushing the envelope there.

The line is (unfortunately) at the point where some degree of character recycling and permanence is going to be a factor. As much as you or me would LOVE a line without Optimus Fucking Prime in it Yet Again, that's probably not going to happen until Hasbro can outright prove that a toyline without ten Optimus Primes in it will fail hardcore at retail.

I’m beyond that, I’m at the point where I don’t even want to see cars and planes in the line anymore, let alone Autobots and Decepticons.

GI Joe is probably the best example of this--Retaliation had one Duke scheduled for the entire toyline and he was going to die in the movie. (This was before they pushed it back. We're getting at least one more Duke now, but this one actually looks like he's in the movie.)

It’s kind of sad when GI Joe is being less like GI Joe than Transformers is.

Because that's what it comes down to--Hasbro is still turning a profit, and they're not seeing anything wrong with their model. I think, on some level, it's being mismanaged. There's got to be a better balance for this. (And someone is going to say, "You're an adult collector so you have a different mindset!" but I've had these opinions since I was a kid. Shit, in 2003, I wanted a new toyline that was all repaints, mostly of BW Neo guys.)

Hey, me too. The *coolest part* of TF for me as a kid was seeing every few years what the New Transformers would turn into, and what the teams would be called. All today’s kids get to anticipate is seeing what slightly different shape Bumblebee’s faceplate will be.

You might be able to say Darksteel and Air Raid's wave was this year, but other than that, it was all pretty much cancelled. We were supposed to get Wheeljack and Soundwave, and then the "Movie Trilogy" repaint waves. (The only one that came out from that was Prime, who I wish I'd picked up.)

I got the Deluxe-packed, trailer-less version of that mold. It’s a good toy, and pretty impressive for its size (the truck windows actually become the chest-windows in robot mode! On a Deluxe! Crazy!), but I don’t know that it would’ve been worth it again for thirty bux with a hollow box of a trailer.

I’m still kinda wishing I’d grabbed Ultimate Prime when he was discounted.

What reason did you even have to be interested in Jazz in the first place?

I just happen to like Jazz.

How so? I'm complaining about something we legitimately don't have: non-G1 derived stuff. The Geewunners got EVERYTHING targeted at them this year, and thus have no place to complain.

Because, regardless of if it is G1 based, much of it is good.

You think? Think back to the Unicron Trilogy where even the most 'popular' characters like Optimus Prime or Hot Shot didn't get more than three different toys per line. And almost every character in the line was someone *new*, not just a rehash of a Ratchet, or a Bulkhead, or something. Think of 'Cybetron' and how many of the guys on the pegs were dudes we'd never seen before. Those were amazing times.

I partially agree. I am sick of BB and Optimus. Unless I can get a meaningfully better Optimus or BB, I have little reason to be excited by roughly half of the toys on shelves at any given time. (That is one of the reasons that I am so annoyed by mediocre Primes. Hasbro has made so many Primes that they have effectively raised the bar on Optimus figures.)

I’m beyond that, I’m at the point where I don’t even want to see cars and planes in the line anymore, let alone Autobots and Decepticons.

And, most of "Generations" this year has been pre-Earth modes. What are you holding out for?

Honestly? The second option: Bad comics that actually had 'new' and 'different' takes on Transformers, because at least then the property would be moving forward instead of spinning its wheels in the nostalgia-based past. There are plenty of 'good' comics around, I can keep reading those just for 'good' comics. If I'm going to keep reading 'Transformers' comics, it'd be nice if it wasn't about the same damn dudes I've seen a billion times before.

Now, this just strikes me as nutty.

"I would rather have bad comics for the sake of variety than good comics that I have become to expect."

If a property, or even part of a property, goes bad, why the hell would anybody bother with it?

Putting aside meta-questions about "is IDW Prowl the same as Marvel Prowl?", the comics are doing new things.

"ReGeneration 1" is the most backwards looking of the 3 comics, and it is still doing *new* things. You yourself have noted that RiD is doing things that TF has not really done before. Who cares if the characters are familiar? The writers have them doing new and different things on the page.

"ReGeneration 1" might have the tone and pacing of Furman's Marvel run, but the plot is moving forward. RiD and MtMtE are going in wholly new directions.

And, again, why would you prefer bad comics for the sake of newness? Why would you even bother with bad comics?


Dom
-back to studying.

Dominic wrote:"ReGeneration 1" is the most backwards looking of the 3 comics, and it is still doing *new* things. You yourself have noted that RiD is doing things that TF has not really done before. Who cares if the characters are familiar? The writers have them doing new and different things on the page.

"ReGeneration 1" might have the tone and pacing of Furman's Marvel run, but the plot is moving forward. RiD and MtMtE are going in wholly new directions.

Completely agree. We're getting some new situations and new ideas, both for familiar G1 characters and for characters that have seen precious little development over the years. The best of both worlds, as it were.

BWprowl wrote:

The line is (unfortunately) at the point where some degree of character recycling and permanence is going to be a factor. As much as you or me would LOVE a line without Optimus Fucking Prime in it Yet Again, that's probably not going to happen until Hasbro can outright prove that a toyline without ten Optimus Primes in it will fail hardcore at retail.

I’m beyond that, I’m at the point where I don’t even want to see cars and planes in the line anymore, let alone Autobots and Decepticons.

I'm with Dom on this one in asking: Then what do you want? And, I would also even argue, based only on this comment, that what you want isn't actually "Transformers". Yeah, this is gonna sound enormously Geewunny of me here, but the core concept that started everything was cars and planes turning into Autobots and Decepticons. Without that element, it's not really "Transformers". It's something else. This is like saying you want a new Star Wars where the Force doesn't exist or Star Trek without space travel or a Superman who can't fly and isn't bullletproof. This is why I went on my "you weren't there, you don't get it" rant a few pages back.

Dominic wrote:Because, regardless of if it is G1 based, much of it is good.

Yeah, but it’s ‘good’ doing the same ol’ stuff it’s been ‘good’ doing for over a decade now. I have enough of that ‘good’ stuff all over my shelves, I only need so much of it before it all starts to blur together.

And, most of "Generations" this year has been pre-Earth modes. What are you holding out for?

Dude, pre-Earth trucks and planes are still trucks and planes. We’ve had toylines with ‘Cybertronian’ vehicles already, that’s nothing new. And there’re still two factions, and they’re still named Autobots and Decepticons. Let’s break out of the rut here.

Now, this just strikes me as nutty.

"I would rather have bad comics for the sake of variety than good comics that I have become to expect."

Well, I can still get ‘good’ comics. Even if they don’t say ‘Transformers’ on the cover, there are probably going to be good comics to buy somewhere. I’m reading through Blackhawks right now, for one, that’s good. At least it might be worth a shitty run of comics with ‘Transformers’ on the cover to see *someone* write a TF story that didn’t take place in a G1-derived setting (Even the shitty Club comics do that! There’s literally no alternative at this point!)

If a property, or even part of a property, goes bad, why the hell would anybody bother with it?

If a property goes ‘bad’, then it could still hold my attention just by *trying* new things, even if it was ultimately failing at them. If a property goes *boring*, that’s when I start questioning why I’m bothering with it. And Transformers is starting to go boring.

Putting aside meta-questions about "is IDW Prowl the same as Marvel Prowl?", the comics are doing new things.

"ReGeneration 1" is the most backwards looking of the 3 comics, and it is still doing *new* things. You yourself have noted that RiD is doing things that TF has not really done before. Who cares if the characters are familiar? The writers have them doing new and different things on the page.

I won’t deny that RID has been great so far, and has actually made pointedly good use of its quarter-century-old characters. But I’ve already got a lot of toys of those guys, and other guys that look just like them. One or two good runs of comics doesn’t mean I want to see the whole toyline dedicated to boxy car-bots. I have hundreds of those already.

"ReGeneration 1" might have the tone and pacing of Furman's Marvel run, but the plot is moving forward. RiD and MtMtE are going in wholly new directions.

Which is nice. Now let’s see the toyline go new places as well. Let’s see some settings and *core fiction* go new places.

And, again, why would you prefer bad comics for the sake of newness? Why would you even bother with bad comics?

Because they’re something different. I could go to the same restaurant for dinner every night, since they have reliably good food. Or, just one night a week, I could go eat at some place I’ve never been to, just to try something new. Maybe the food won’t be as good as the place I eat at regularly, it might even be terrible, but by god, at least I tried something new and didn’t allow myself to coast by on the same thing over and over again. You’ve gotta expand your horizons every now and again.

Yeah, but it’s ‘good’ doing the same ol’ stuff it’s been ‘good’ doing for over a decade now.

When did the comics, when have the comics, been doing what they are doing now?

At least it might be worth a shitty run of comics with ‘Transformers’ on the cover to see *someone* write a TF story that didn’t take place in a G1-derived setting (Even the shitty Club comics do that! There’s literally no alternative at this point!)

Have you read any of the Fun Publications comics? They are terrible. Yeah, "Shattered Glass" is a new setting in TF terms. But, it is a cliche over-all. And, it *sucks*. The art is middling over-all, with some really bad low points. The writing is.....shamefully bad.

And Transformers is starting to go boring.

Despite 3 current comics doing *new* things?

Because they’re something different. I could go to the same restaurant for dinner every night, since they have reliably good food. Or, just one night a week, I could go eat at some place I’ve never been to, just to try something new. Maybe the food won’t be as good as the place I eat at regularly, it might even be terrible, but by god, at least I tried something new and didn’t allow myself to coast by on the same thing over and over again. You’ve gotta expand your horizons every now and again.

Yeah, and shitty comics are shitty comics. I try new things as well. (That is how I discovered Indian food a few years back. Going to get some fo that for dinner actually.)

And, I try new comics. (I gave some "New 52" books a try, right?) But, I am not going to give points to something for being "new and different" when it is *bad*. "Tiny Titans" is a different take on the Titans. It also sucks.

The comics are pretty easy to distinguish, even within IDW. The "-ation" books read much differently in tone and pacing than McCarthy's run. Costa's run tackled a long standing probelm with TF (the robots themselves not changing over time) and made that a plot thread. Now, we have two distinct ongoing books.

But, putting that aside, lets assume that it all blurs together. Fine. Let it blur together. What is wrong with being spoiled by high expetations for something that is wholly discretionary. Yeah, I have been spoiled by good comics, (TF and otherwise), over the years. There are books that I thought passable, even excellent, 20 years ago. But, two decades of personal maturation and improved standards for comics have changed *my* expectations. I am not going to settle for what was okay 20 years ago, and the comics industry damned well had better deliver.

Frankly, I am used to getting good comics and have no desire to settle for less. Rather than seeing garbage as a chance for variety, it is better to raise the bar for excellence.

Similarly, with TF, I got spoiled by having figures where the parts all fit nicely together in both modes with nothing left over. So, yes, I am going to get annoyed when Hasbro gets lazy about designing toys. Facade parts have only become common in the last year or so. And, extra bits in one mode or another has recently made a come-back. Those are pretty new and/or differnt for toys. But, they also make for shitty toys that are not worth my time and money.

One or two good runs of comics doesn’t mean I want to see the whole toyline dedicated to boxy car-bots. I have hundreds of those already.

What do you want? Beasts? We are getting those this year. What else do you want that could be delivered in toy form?




Dom
-out for the year this time.

BWprowl wrote:

Dominic wrote:Because, regardless of if it is G1 based, much of it is good.

Yeah, but it’s ‘good’ doing the same ol’ stuff it’s been ‘good’ doing for over a decade now. I have enough of that ‘good’ stuff all over my shelves, I only need so much of it before it all starts to blur together.

And, most of "Generations" this year has been pre-Earth modes. What are you holding out for?

Dude, pre-Earth trucks and planes are still trucks and planes. We’ve had toylines with ‘Cybertronian’ vehicles already, that’s nothing new. And there’re still two factions, and they’re still named Autobots and Decepticons. Let’s break out of the rut here.

Because they’re something different. I could go to the same restaurant for dinner every night, since they have reliably good food. Or, just one night a week, I could go eat at some place I’ve never been to, just to try something new. Maybe the food won’t be as good as the place I eat at regularly, it might even be terrible, but by god, at least I tried something new and didn’t allow myself to coast by on the same thing over and over again. You’ve gotta expand your horizons every now and again.

To the first thing, no. Just... no. Sorry, but that's getting too far away from what makes "Transformers" "Transformers" and not "Other Random Robot Property". I can't help thinking that maybe this also something that you're missing by not having been there from the beginning. When TF first came out, it was huge. And then everyone started copying it. By the end of 1984 the toy aisles were filled with dozens of lines with fighting robots. The factions, Autobots and Decepticons is part of what differentiates "Transformers" from the other properties. If you don't have or at least referrence those two factions then what you have is something completely unrelated at which point why call it "Transformers". You might as well just call it Go-Bots at that point. Or Robotech. Or Gundam, ZOIDS, Voltron...

As for the restruant analogy, that's like saying you want Chinese food from a Mexican restruant. What I would want is new stuff at the Mexican restruant rather than for the Mexican restruant to serve Chinese food.