Who is the definitive "second in command" of the Autobots?

Almighty Unicron · Post by **Almighty Unicron** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:29 pm

I've been thinking. Whenever we get a Megatron, we almost always get a Starscream. And we always know exactly what Starscream's relationship to Megs is; he's the second in command and wants to replace him. He's part of the hierarchy of the Decepticon forces. In the absence of Megs, Starscream tends to take over.

With the autobots, it's different. Optimus Prime tends to die... a lot. And we see command being given to a whole shitload of different characters. Ultra Magnus, Rodimus, even Bumblebee gets in on the action far too frequently, despite the latter two not really being all that high up in the military hierarchy. But if you were to say, across all continuities, if there was a "definitive" Autobot second-in-command (or sub-commander), who would it be?

Post by **andersonh1** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:57 pm

I don't think this question has an answer, because there is no one character who is the definitive lieutenant for Prime. You're right though, it's odd that the Decepticons often have a defined second in command but the Autobots don't.

Post by **Shockwave** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:03 pm

Jazz. I seem to recall several G1 sources, possibly including his Tech Spec which actually say so.

Post by **Sparky Prime** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:47 pm

For G1, I think Ultra Magnus became the de-facto second-in-command once he was introduced, but before that, the position seemed to belong to a couple different characters. Jazz, Prowl and Grimlock I think each at one point or another had a leadership role for the Autobots, particularly in the comics.

In the live-action films, Optimus introduced Jazz as his lieutenant.

Post by **andersonh1** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:29 pm

Sparky Prime wrote:For G1, I think Ultra Magnus became the de-facto second-in-command once he was introduced, but before that, the position seemed to belong to a couple different characters. Jazz, Prowl and Grimlock I think each at one point or another had a leadership role for the Autobots, particularly in the comics.

In the live-action films, Optimus introduced Jazz as his lieutenant.

Shockwave wrote:Jazz. I seem to recall several G1 sources, possibly including his Tech Spec which actually say so.

I almost went with Jazz, who clearly was the second in command in the early G1 animated episodes and in the first movie, but it doesn't apply across the board.

Prowl wasn't very prominent at all in the cartoon. The comics have been the media that boosted his importance.

edit: Jazz's original bio:

Jazz loves Earth culture. Always looking to learn more. His knowledge of Earth makes him the indispensable right-hand man to Optimus Prime. Takes most dangerous missions. Very cool, very stylish, very competent. Equipped with photon rifle, flamethrower, full-spectrum beacon, 180db stereo speakers. Creates dazzling, disorienting sound and light shows. Versatile, clever, daring, but prone to be distracted.

Almighty Unicron · Post by **Almighty Unicron** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:58 pm

Was Jazz ever officially given a rank in any G1 continuity? I always assumed "right-hand-man" was either more informal, or he was something like a Batman or Aide de Camp to Prime.

Post by **Shockwave** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:01 pm

The UK collected editions had Who's Who sections in the back of them listing who did what. I'll try to see if I can find a pic or maybe just scan it for referrence. It did change over time though, depending on the status of various Autobots.

Post by **andersonh1** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:08 pm

Almighty Unicron wrote:Was Jazz ever officially given a rank in any G1 continuity? I always assumed "right-hand-man" was either more informal, or he was something like a Batman or Aide de Camp to Prime.

Yeah, and it reads very much as a situational position. Jazz knows all about Earth, so Prime relies on him for his knowledge. On some other planet, another expert might fill the same role.

Dominic · Post by **Dominic** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:35 am

Using tech spec numbers (including ranks) is dicey.

The answer to the question depends on the specific media/era.

In G1, one could argue for Jazz. (This is supported by the tech specs and early episodes of the cartoon.) But, the comic implied a council directly below Prime, (consisting of of the Combiner bodies, Jetfire, Perceptor and one or two others).

In different comics or cartoons, some characters may not have even existed. The second in command for the UT was either Red Alert or Jetfire, characters that did not exist in other iterations of "Transformers". (They shared names. But, UT Red Alert and Jet Fire are not the same as their G1 or neo-G1 counterparts, as evidenced by character profiles and other content.)

On the Decepticon side, second in command could arguably be Starscream, Shockwave or even Soundwave.

In season 3 and the UK future comics, Ultra Magnus was the second in command of the Autobots. But, in the cartoon, the Decepticons were less consistent. Cyclonus was second in command on the cartoon. In the comics, Shockwave ruled in the future of 2006(?!?), and was later replaced by Soundwave.

Post by **JediTricks** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:13 am

Here's the thing, it almost seems like the Autobots are less of an army and more of a rebellion, so there is no hierarchy exactly, it's more like rebel cells and Optimus is their mastermind.

The Decepticons, meanwhile, are a bloodthirsty lot of backstabbers and murderers who are barely kept in check, done so only by fear of those stronger or smarter or more cunning than themselves. But they have more success in their goals and thus are more organized by the nature of needing to retain power.

It's an odd fiction, kinda shoehorned together to fit the needs of whatever story.

TF Views