BotCon Generations Reveals

[BWprowl]

C'mon guys, you should know that if you wait long enough that I make the thread about these I'll just end up filling it to the brim with bitching.

But I don't WANT to do that too much, so out of the way quickly:

I am livid about Legends Powerglide and Windcharger. They are horrible and awful and everything wrong with the brand right now that I had said I was afraid of every time I expressed my opinion on New Legends Cosmos. I might buy these toys just to destroy them and send them to Hasbro in protest. Seriously, my jimmies are at maximum over-rustle.

That out of the way! I'm actually mostly hyped as shit for Chromia, thank you very much Windblade comic. For some reason I had it in my head that Chromia would just be a same-wave retool/variant of the new Arcee mold, but it turns out she's actually a retool of a completely different Arcee, and a rather extensive one at that (for a while there I wasn't even sure if she was actually a retool or if we had another BWII Starscream/Energon Starscream situation). But she looks fantastic in all her comicky glory and she'll be bought on-sight.

Arcee isn't really my bag, but that's definitely G1 cartoon Arcee, which is what people wanted, so they should be happy about it.

The new Megatron mold is good to see, though I'm sad he's not an Autobot, so long as they're pumping this comics-tie-in thing. Still, a solid-looking mold and the Armada retool OUT OF FUCKING NOWHERE was a nice surprise. Now I have to decide if I'll get the Geewunny version, the Armada version, or wait for the inevitable Armada Galvatron redeco. Might get more than one version actually, it just looks neat. Very nice tank mode.

The new Optimus Prime is laughable and all those people who had been saying they should even try to improve on the (awesome) Classics mold can eat it. It's kind of amazing how badly it turned out, given how much experience Hasbro's guys should have making Optimus Fucking Prime at this point.

Brainstorm looks neat enough, and I like that he's got his Headmaster, but his transformation looks sooooooo lame.

Anything else I forgot about or didn't care to mention but feel free to bring it up and discuss too!

[Shockwave]

I'm pretty excited for most of this, although I'll admit that Windcharge does irk me a little bit. I think we all really expected that the RTS Windcharger was going to be repainted into Tailgate. Nope. Tailgate is a completely new mold. Ok, no problem, but now Hasbro is putting out another Windcharger, which is worse quality than the previous one, as a repaint of Tailgate! They seriously could have saved the money on the retooling and just reissued the previous Windcharger which would have given us two separate characters that used to share a mold as being totally different unique toys. Way to miss the boat Hasbro.

I actually like the look of Optimus and I actually plan on getting this and replacing the existing Classics one. At least it will have more articulation and I really don't think the pics are doing this thing justice. It's in an ackward pose for one thing and the colors look weird, almost like they were photoshopped.

Really excited for Megatron. I can put an Autobot sticker on him. Powerglide looks good, and at least this one will be able to stand without falling over. Chromia is a repaint? Of what? Also happy about Arcee, Prowl's right in that it makes G33wunny me happy. Glad to see that Brainstorm retains his Headmaster part. It's nice to see these characters get decent toys that aren't completely nerfed by the gimmick like they were back in the day. Maybe this will lead to a titan class Fort Max.

[BWprowl]

I actually like the look of Optimus and I actually plan on getting this and replacing the existing Classics one. At least it will have more articulation and I really don't think the pics are doing this thing justice. It's in an ackward pose for one thing and the colors look weird, almost like they were photoshopped.

That's a thing, this new one really doesn't look like it has any more articulation than Classics Optimus! That one at least had TWO upper-body swivels and that nifty neck tilt. I dunno, something about this new one just looks so...doofy. I hate how overly wide it is, I hate how flat and simple and cheap-looking the whole thing is (I keep scrutinizing it to see if there's some encompassing gimmick in there that would cause it to seem so simplistic, but there's nothing). The proportions really just don't do it for me at all, it looks very (and I hesitate to use this term but for lack of a better one) kiddy.

I mean, I know if I want a great Optimus at this size then MP-10 does exist, but it seems like even in the face of that if Hasbro was gonna put out a new Leader Class version, they should at least *try* a little bit harder.

Hasbro's promo pics are always photoshopped to hell and back.

Powerglide looks good, and at least this one will be able to stand without falling over.

Did the previous Cyberverse Powerglide have that problem? I never had an issue. I really just look at this new toy and wonder "Why do you even exist?"

Chromia is a repaint? Of what?

She's a *very* extensive retool of the TFPrime RID Arcee mold. Looks like mostly some of the robot bits are still the same, everything pertaining to the bike mode and several other parts have been redone from scratch.

The more I look at the new Megatron mold, the more I really really like it. I might really buy both versions.

[JediTricks]

C'mon guys, you should know that if you wait long enough that I make the thread about these I'll just end up filling it to the brim with bitching.

There was already a thread for Botcon brand reveals, why did Generations need to get singled out?

Anyway, not to be rude, but your opinions are so fringe these days that it doesn't really register whether or not you are "livid" about Powerglide and Windcharger anymore. Powerglide looks like a great figure, regardless of the freshness or lack thereof for the character. Windcharger looks middling but makes good use of color. But the idea that this is an example of everything that's wrong with this brand, that's just ranting and raving over a personal matter, it doesn't see the forest for the trees. "Oh noes, they are releasing a character we've had executed entirely off-base in the last decade, and a character that was nigh-impossible for fans to get recently, get a rope!" Your opinion on Cosmos was stated and most of us don't agree with you, you aren't listening to our counterpoints, so what's the point in doing this again? The brand is celebrating 30 years, it's not unreasonable to get popular versions of classic characters released in dress that best fits them, nobody is forcing you to buy them or even look at them.

I'm actually mostly hyped as shit for Chromia, thank you very much Windblade comic. For some reason I had it in my head that Chromia would just be a same-wave retool/variant of the new Arcee mold, but it turns out she's actually a retool of a completely different Arcee, and a rather extensive one at that (for a while there I wasn't even sure if she was actually a retool or if we had another BWII Starscream/Energon Starscream situation). But she looks fantastic in all her comicky glory and she'll be bought on-sight.

She's not that extensive a retool of Prime RID Arcee, the body is identical toe to neck, it's just a different head and different wings. It's a quality use of an alternate-brand body and coloring, but it's not as revolutionary as you are seeing it.

Also, BWII Starscream was a repaint of G2 Smokescreen, I really feel like that G2 Smokescreen and Dreadwing don't get nearly enough credit.

The new Megatron mold is good to see, though I'm sad he's not an Autobot, so long as they're pumping this comics-tie-in thing. Still, a solid-looking mold and the Armada retool OUT OF FUCKING NOWHERE was a nice surprise. Now I have to decide if I'll get the Geewunny version, the Armada version, or wait for the inevitable Armada Galvatron redeco. Might get more than one version actually, it just looks neat. Very nice tank mode.

They made a joke about the Autobot logo on him, flipping from slide to slide where they had crudely pasted a sticker over the Decepticon logo.

If you think they're inevitably going to redo a Leader class a 3rd time, I suspect you are going to be waiting until the sun explodes.

The new Optimus Prime is laughable and all those people who had been saying they should even try to improve on the (awesome) Classics mold can eat it. It's kind of amazing how badly it turned out, given how much experience Hasbro's guys should have making Optimus Fucking Prime at this point.

This new figure looks pretty bad, we can agree there, silly fat face and simplistic bot mode with a rather blah alt mode. As for not trying to improve on the Classics mold, I not only can't agree at all, but I cannot imagine why anybody would be against improving on an 8-year-old figure. Not only have a lot of fans of G1 come back to the brand lately only to have no real quality OP to buy, but that figure is somewhat dated.

[BWprowl]

There was already a thread for Botcon brand reveals, why did Generations need to get singled out?

That was over in the Movie forum and people weren't talking about these? *shrug*

Anyway, not to be rude, but your opinions are so fringe these days that it doesn't really register whether or not you are "livid" about Powerglide and Windcharger anymore.

No offense taken on that one, I acknowledge that it's primarily self-opinionated bitching on my part and just wanted to get it out, but I do think it speaks sadly of the state of the fandom at this point when it's considered 'fringe' to want cool new shit instead of the same old shit over and over again.

Powerglide looks like a great figure, regardless of the freshness or lack thereof for the character. Windcharger looks middling but makes good use of color. But the idea that this is an example of everything that's wrong with this brand, that's just ranting and raving over a personal matter, it doesn't see the forest for the trees. "Oh noes, they are releasing a character we've had executed entirely off-base in the last decade, and a character that was nigh-impossible for fans to get recently, get a rope!" Your opinion on Cosmos was stated and most of us don't agree with you, you aren't listening to our counterpoints, so what's the point in doing this again? The brand is celebrating 30 years, it's not unreasonable to get popular versions of classic characters released in dress that best fits them, nobody is forcing you to buy them or even look at them.

The thing is, back when Cosmos happened, I pointed to it as a starting point for a 'slippery slope' where we'd go full GI Joe and have the same dudes remade repeatedly despite valid toys already existing, and you all went "You're overreacting, there's no way it would get that bad!" But here we are now, and barely two years after the last Commander-class Powerglide we're getting *another* Commander-class Powerglide! A few years after a fantastic Basic Windcharger comes out, and instead of just reissuing it and making it easier for new fans to find, they retool an existing mold into another new one! Where does it end?

It just comes off as such a gross waste of time and resources to me. It doesn't have to be a brand-new character, since this is the nostalgia line and all, but why couldn't the time spent making that redundant new Powerglide have instead gone into making a Commander-class Runamuck, or Seaspray? I find myself wondering if the designer for that new Powerglide wasn't looking up reference pics, came across the Commander-class Powerglide from a couple years ago, then just shook his head and said "Why the hell am I even bothering with this?".

They're not forcing me to buy them, no, but there'd potentially be more cool shit I *could* buy if we weren't getting these utterly pointless new versions of Powerglide and Windcharger.

She's not that extensive a retool of Prime RID Arcee, the body is identical toe to neck, it's just a different head and different wings. It's a quality use of an alternate-brand body and coloring, but it's not as revolutionary as you are seeing it.

The wheels are different too, and she's got new guns. It's mainly the way the new wings/bike bits completely change the shape and look of the bike mode that impresses me, and that they were able to get so close to the comic design with a mere retool.

Also, BWII Starscream was a repaint of G2 Smokescreen, I really feel like that G2 Smokescreen and Dreadwing don't get nearly enough credit.

I was just saying the first version of the mold I could remember the name of, I knew it originated in G2.

If you think they're inevitably going to redo a Leader class a 3rd time, I suspect you are going to be waiting until the sun explodes.

I'd say it's so obvious they'd have to do it, but then I remembered that Hasbro couldn't even manage to put out a Scourge/Black Convoy redeco of the new Laser Prime mold and wound up just letting FunPub do it, so you may have a point.

This new figure looks pretty bad, we can agree there, silly fat face and simplistic bot mode with a rather blah alt mode. As for not trying to improve on the Classics mold, I not only can't agree at all, but I cannot imagine why anybody would be against improving on an 8-year-old figure. Not only have a lot of fans of G1 come back to the brand lately only to have no real quality OP to buy, but that figure is somewhat dated.

8 years is hardly anything, Hasbro's still reusing molds from that period and they look fine. There's nothing really dated about it; I'd like to see, say, ankle rockers added, but that'd be getting greedy, I genuinely love that design for OP otherwise.

As for fans having no quality OP to buy: MP-10 exists, and really should guarantee that no new G1 OP needs to be made ever again.

Sadly, the transformation on this new Leader Optimus could *almost* make it work as a Ginrai, but it just looks so...bad.

[Shockwave]

The last commander class Powerglide was the DotM one and is a different aesthetic from this. Sure it was close to being classics style, but it was also not without it's flaws. Also, that was really legends size, and the new ones are bigger, almost basic sized. And the one before that was the Ultra on with the wonky feet.

Now, I totally agree with you on Windcharger. And I agree with you on Cosmos, but only because of botched distribution. They nerfed it the first time so no one could get him so now they made a new and... once again, no one can find him. Great, nice work, Hasbro.

As for fans having no quality OP to buy: MP-10 exists, and really should guarantee that no new G1 OP needs to be made ever again.

I'm sorry, but no. This argument is complete bullshit. You're really going to sit there and tell me that a viable alternative for me to getting a decent $30 Voyager is to instead go out and spend $300 on the MP version? Because seriously, that's literally how much it would cost for the regular version (YotH doesn't count, he's gold, has clear trailer and missing accessories). That's just ridiculous.

[BWprowl]

The last commander class Powerglide was the DotM one and is a different aesthetic from this. Sure it was close to being classics style, but it was also not without it's flaws. Also, that was really legends size, and the new ones are bigger, almost basic sized. And the one before that was the Ultra on with the wonky feet.

The nominally-DOTM Powerglide was Generations in everything but packaging, it was blatantly a Geewun-style Powerglide. And it was a Commander-class toy, which is the exact same size these new Generations Legends toys are.

Now, I totally agree with you on Windcharger. And I agree with you on Cosmos, but only because of botched distribution. They nerfed it the first time so no one could get him so now they made a new and... once again, no one can find him. Great, nice work, Hasbro.

For the record, it seems everyone who DOESN'T live in CA like we do has been finding Cosmos/Swerve just fine. They might still pop up eventually in our neck of the woods, but for now the places around here just seem to be adamantly refusing to put out new Legends, for some reason.

I'm sorry, but no. This argument is complete bullshit. You're really going to sit there and tell me that a viable alternative for me to getting a decent $30 Voyager is to instead go out and spend $300 on the MP version? Because seriously, that's literally how much it would cost for the regular version (YotH doesn't count, he's gold, has clear trailer and missing accessories). That's just ridiculous.

First, just to be nitpicky: This new OP is a Leader, not a Voyager, and will be about $40, not $30.

Thing is, you don't get to complain that something supposedly doesn't exist (in this case, a quality OP at that particular size) then when it does, claim it doesn't count because it costs more than you'd prefer. Especially when we're talking about aftermarket prices. Hasbro could continuously reissue MP-10 at about $100-125 until the end of time, and that would put one hell of a dent in the "New fans don't have a good G1-style Optimus Prime to buy" argument. Especially given that this new Leader Class itself ISN'T a good G1-style Optimus Prime.

[JediTricks]

There was already a thread for Botcon brand reveals, why did Generations need to get singled out?

That was over in the Movie forum and people weren't talking about these? *shrug*

That's why I didn't bother merging this thread, but honestly I put it in movie because I was busy doing Botcon stuff and not thinking about it, the majority of the reveals weren't Movie - Movie only got 1 new regular figure (and that's a repaint), plus a bunch of RID kid stuff.

Anyway, not to be rude, but your opinions are so fringe these days that it doesn't really register whether or not you are "livid" about Powerglide and Windcharger anymore.

No offense taken on that one, I acknowledge that it's primarily self-opinionated bitching on my part and just wanted to get it out, but I do think it speaks sadly of the state of the fandom at this point when it's considered 'fringe' to want cool new shit instead of the same old shit over and over again.

What's fringe about it is that you don't recognize that the rest of us want both classic stuff updated and new stuff, that you're somehow fighting a one-man war for "NEW, FOREIGN, DIFFERENT!!!" as if this all exists in a vacuum. I would disagree that the brand exists in a vacuum, that Hasbro must eschew its past to move forward, that it has to sacrifice the brand's underpinnings for something that is only vaguely connected in order to be new. I'm not buying Windcharger, I have Tailgate and am disappointed in that mold, and even as a kid I didn't like all the repaints in this brand (Hasbro's business model has been repaints and retools going back to GI Joe's new sets of clothes, and Mr Potato Head's faces), but I don't begrudge others for wanting that. As for Powerglide, that figure looks boss and I can't wait - Swerve and Cosmos saved my interest in this Legends line, they are the Tranformers fun that the first 2 waves and a lot of Cyberverse were missing. But this is a GENERATIONS line, it is going to look backwards by definition.

The thing is, back when Cosmos happened, I pointed to it as a starting point for a 'slippery slope' where we'd go full GI Joe and have the same dudes remade repeatedly despite valid toys already existing, and you all went "You're overreacting, there's no way it would get that bad!" But here we are now, and barely two years after the last Commander-class Powerglide we're getting *another* Commander-class Powerglide! A few years after a fantastic Basic Windcharger comes out, and instead of just reissuing it and making it easier for new fans to find, they retool an existing mold into another new one! Where does it end?

I cannot give you an inch on that DOTM Commander-class Powerglide point, that's a movie line and an entirely different aesthetic with different goals from this. You can compare this to the Universe Powerglide, but you're arguing apples and oranges when you bring in that DOTM figure.

Basic Windcharger no longer would have a line to be reissued in as it's too big for Legends, same with that Rumble tank figure from RTS. And how would you take it if they did re-release that Windcharger? That'd be another waste of efforts, right, another G1 character getting a re-release before some new character?

It just comes off as such a gross waste of time and resources to me. It doesn't have to be a brand-new character, since this is the nostalgia line and all, but why couldn't the time spent making that redundant new Powerglide have instead gone into making a Commander-class Runamuck, or Seaspray? I find myself wondering if the designer for that new Powerglide wasn't looking up reference pics, came across the Commander-class Powerglide from a couple years ago, then just shook his head and said "Why the hell am I even bothering with this?".

Seaspray? We got a Seapsray in '10 and that one was a lot more G1-styled than DOTM Powerglide; your argument is a tad difficult to understand, it's loud and angry but it's not consistent.

Runamuck got a Botcon figure 2 years ago, that usually makes those characters off-limits for exclusivity for a few years. But it's also a very difficult place to go because Runamuck is part of a combiner, so do you make a new combiner figure or do you make a non-combiner figure and piss off expectations? So combiners are "tread lightly" characters for a solid reason.

Yeah, there are holes in this line that can be filled, we could have had a Beachcomber or Brawn or Huffer or others, but we did just get a new Tailgate and Swerve and Shrapnel after 29 years and are about to get Bombshell too, and there's possibly more to see at SDCC next month.

They're not forcing me to buy them, no, but there'd potentially be more cool shit I *could* buy if we weren't getting these utterly pointless new versions of Powerglide and Windcharger.

That's a straw man argument right there, you have no idea what they'd do if they weren't doing Powerglide and Windcharger. Windcharger is a budget-reliever from Tailgate, were it not for Windcharger being planned we might not have gotten Tailgate at all. Powerglide is a popular cartoon character who hasn't had a quality cartoon figure in 29 years until now, if they hadn't done him they might have just released another new Bumblebee for all you know. Powerglide will sell, and products that sell encourage the line to stick around longer so it can attempt more figures. This isn't like Star Wars with 50 different Darth Vader figures or GI Joe with 67 Snake Eyes figures, but even if it was, the reason there are 50 Vaders is so cases with new guys like Ree Yees can sell, because the line still sells to kids and to newcomers - no Vader, no Ree Yees.

She's not that extensive a retool of Prime RID Arcee, the body is identical toe to neck, it's just a different head and different wings. It's a quality use of an alternate-brand body and coloring, but it's not as revolutionary as you are seeing it.

The wheels are different too, and she's got new guns. It's mainly the way the new wings/bike bits completely change the shape and look of the bike mode that impresses me, and that they were able to get so close to the comic design with a mere retool.

Wheels, ok. Accessories is no big deal though. It's an impressive figure, but it's not as extensive a retool as it seems, that's all I was saying.

If you think they're inevitably going to redo a Leader class a 3rd time, I suspect you are going to be waiting until the sun explodes.

I'd say it's so obvious they'd have to do it, but then I remembered that Hasbro couldn't even manage to put out a Scourge/Black Convoy redeco of the new Laser Prime mold and wound up just letting FunPub do it, so you may have a point.

Also, Leaders generally don't get away with 3 passes in this country, and there would be some pushback if the next Generations Galvatron figure weren't G1, I think, especially after the rather cool reception of the previous Galvatron.

This new figure looks pretty bad, we can agree there, silly fat face and simplistic bot mode with a rather blah alt mode. As for not trying to improve on the Classics mold, I not only can't agree at all, but I cannot imagine why anybody would be against improving on an 8-year-old figure. Not only have a lot of fans of G1 come back to the brand lately only to have no real quality OP to buy, but that figure is somewhat dated.

8 years is hardly anything, Hasbro's still reusing molds from that period and they look fine. There's nothing really dated about it; I'd like to see, say, ankle rockers added, but that'd be getting greedy, I genuinely love that design for OP otherwise.

As for fans having no quality OP to buy: MP-10 exists, and really should guarantee that no new G1 OP needs to be made ever again.

Sadly, the transformation on this new Leader Optimus could *almost* make it work as a Ginrai, but it just looks so...bad.

8 years is 4 to 8 cycles in the toy industry and 2 whole new generations of consumers for the kid demo; it's also a long time for technology to stagnate, even in the toy industry -- the thicker walls of the '06 Classics are a very good example of this, not only are the figures chunkier but the detail isn't as sharp, another shift is the change in design philosophy in general.

Not every fan can put $120 up for MP-10 even if they could find it, and the Year of the Horse figure is also gold-trimmed which isn't appealing to everybody.

The fat head with small eyes kinda reminded me of Ginrai, the alt mode reminded me of Energon Fatimus Prime, but the end result is something that looks awful at this stage.

Now, I totally agree with you on Windcharger. And I agree with you on Cosmos, but only because of botched distribution. They nerfed it the first time so no one could get him so now they made a new and... once again, no one can find him. Great, nice work, Hasbro.

Cosmos and Swerve are showing up at Target and TRUs in my area more and more.

[JediTricks]

The last commander class Powerglide was the DotM one and is a different aesthetic from this. Sure it was close to being classics style, but it was also not without it's flaws. Also, that was really legends size, and the new ones are bigger, almost basic sized. And the one before that was the Ultra on with the wonky feet.

The nominally-DOTM Powerglide was Generations in everything but packaging, it was blatantly a Geewun-style Powerglide. And it was a Commander-class toy, which is the exact same size these new Generations Legends toys are.

Have you SEEN this figure in person? It's so not G1, it's an homage but very much in DOTM style.

For the record, it seems everyone who DOESN'T live in CA like we do has been finding Cosmos/Swerve just fine. They might still pop up eventually in our neck of the woods, but for now the places around here just seem to be adamantly refusing to put out new Legends, for some reason.

I keep seeing them in SoCal, semi-consistently at Target and less-so at TRU. They're going to get pushed out by the next wave soon enough.

I'm sorry, but no. This argument is complete bullshit. You're really going to sit there and tell me that a viable alternative for me to getting a decent $30 Voyager is to instead go out and spend $300 on the MP version? Because seriously, that's literally how much it would cost for the regular version (YotH doesn't count, he's gold, has clear trailer and missing accessories). That's just ridiculous.

First, just to be nitpicky: This new OP is a Leader, not a Voyager, and will be about $40, not $30.

Thing is, you don't get to complain that something supposedly doesn't exist (in this case, a quality OP at that particular size) then when it does, claim it doesn't count because it costs more than you'd prefer. Especially when we're talking about aftermarket prices. Hasbro could continuously reissue MP-10 at about $100-125 until the end of time, and that would put one hell of a dent in the "New fans don't have a good G1-style Optimus Prime to buy" argument. Especially given that this new Leader Class itself ISN'T a good G1-style Optimus Prime.

You're mistaken, new OP is a Voyager, I have the Hasbro file right here, it's in the Generations 2015 Voyager folder and the images start with "Gen Voyager Optimus". Leaders are $45, Voyagers are $25.

And you're comparing Masterpiece to Mainline, so you get no points in your favor there. The Generations line is meant to appeal to 8+ age and mainline collectors as well as rich ass old folks.

[BWprowl]

What's fringe about it is that you don't recognize that the rest of us want both classic stuff updated and new stuff, that you're somehow fighting a one-man war for "NEW, FOREIGN, DIFFERENT!!!" as if this all exists in a vacuum. I would disagree that the brand exists in a vacuum, that Hasbro must eschew its past to move forward, that it has to sacrifice the brand's underpinnings for something that is only vaguely connected in order to be new. I'm not buying Windcharger, I have Tailgate and am disappointed in that mold, and even as a kid I didn't like all the repaints in this brand (Hasbro's business model has been repaints and retools going back to GI Joe's new sets of clothes, and Mr Potato Head's faces), but I don't begrudge others for wanting that.

I have no problem with classic stuff and updates where needed; I’m psyched for stuff like Megatron, not to mention previous reveals like, say, Roadbuster. It’s needless updates like Powerglide and Windcharger, trotting out new versions when perfectly fine new versions JUST came out that’s a bridge too far for me.

I cannot give you an inch on that DOTM Commander-class Powerglide point, that's a movie line and an entirely different aesthetic with different goals from this. You can compare this to the Universe Powerglide, but you're arguing apples and oranges when you bring in that DOTM figure.

Have you SEEN this figure in person? It's so not G1, it's an homage but very much in DOTM style.

I OWN the DOTM Powerglide, in fact I specifically bought it because “Ooh neat, Geewunny little Powerglide”. There is nothing Bayformery at all about that mold, it’s G1 through-and-through, and I thought it was fine for that. That’s why I’m so taken aback that they’re releasing another version that’s so similar to it, so soon after the previous release.

Basic Windcharger no longer would have a line to be reissued in as it's too big for Legends, same with that Rumble tank figure from RTS.

There are ways to do it, the Basics could arguably be sold at the ‘Legends’ price point without any mini-weapon-partners. This same size class was selling two-packs of smaller Legends-sized spring disc guys before it moved onto this ‘Commander-size toys with mini-partners’ phase. They could also sell them in multi-packs, store-exclusive or otherwise. There are ways.

And how would you take it if they did re-release that Windcharger? That'd be another waste of efforts, right, another G1 character getting a re-release before some new character?

That’s still not time wasted designing and engineering a new figure that could be put towards less wasteful efforts. This is the equivalent of your boss making you type up a report from scratch in a marginally different format after you already did it once, just a colossal waste of time.

Seaspray? We got a Seapsray in '10 and that one was a lot more G1-styled than DOTM Powerglide; your argument is a tad difficult to understand, it's loud and angry but it's not consistent.

In what world is HFTD Seaspray G1-style? It’s got the color scheme, and the same type of altmode, but everything else is completely different. DOTM Powerglide on the other hand is blatantly G1, at about the same size as the original even. There’s no comparison.

Runamuck got a Botcon figure 2 years ago, that usually makes those characters off-limits for exclusivity for a few years. But it's also a very difficult place to go because Runamuck is part of a combiner, so do you make a new combiner figure or do you make a non-combiner figure and piss off expectations? So combiners are "tread lightly" characters for a solid reason.

Runamuck and Runabout aren’t part of a combiner…

Yeah, there are holes in this line that can be filled, we could have had a Beachcomber or Brawn or Huffer or others, but we did just get a new Tailgate and Swerve and Shrapnel after 29 years and are about to get Bombshell too, and there's possibly more to see at SDCC next month.

Yeah, we might get a new Springer or Warpath! It’s been a while since those guys got new toys, and the previous ones are really showing their age!

That's a straw man argument right there, you have no idea what they'd do if they weren't doing Powerglide and Windcharger. Windcharger is a budget-reliever from Tailgate, were it not for Windcharger being planned we might not have gotten Tailgate at all. Powerglide is a popular cartoon character who hasn't had a quality cartoon figure in 29 years until now, if they hadn't done him they might have just released another new Bumblebee for all you know. Powerglide will sell, and products that sell encourage the line to stick around longer so it can attempt more figures. This isn't like Star Wars with 50 different Darth Vader figures or GI Joe with 67 Snake Eyes figures, but even if it was, the reason there are 50 Vaders is so cases with new guys like Ree Yees can sell, because the line still sells to kids and to newcomers - no Vader, no Ree Yees.

I understand the need for ‘popular’ characters in a line, it’s why you won’t see me complain about Hasbro rolling out another Optimus Prime or Bumblebee, fine, I get that. But I’m having a hard time believing friggin’ Powerglide is on that level. He’s no Darth Vader, he’s maybe a Nien Numb at best, and he sure as hell doesn’t warrant two new toys at the same size class in less than three years.

There’s also the part of me that is nostalgic (heh) for when TF as a toyline didn’t operate like Star Wars, when we just got a pile of all-new, interesting guys with each revision of the line each year. Were this 1987, I’d probably be on Usenet complaining about the Classic Pretenders (“Jazz and Starscream JUST got toys three years ago!”).

Also, Leaders generally don't get away with 3 passes in this country, and there would be some pushback if the next Generations Galvatron figure weren't G1, I think, especially after the rather cool reception of the previous Galvatron.

Because of the size it’s unlikely to be something the Club would do too. A pity, I rather like Armada Galvy’s color scheme.

Not every fan can put $120 up for MP-10 even if they could find it, and the Year of the Horse figure is also gold-trimmed which isn't appealing to everybody.

Theoretically this is why Generations Legends OP and Orion Pax exist. Frankly, as in love with the Classics figure as I am, I wouldn’t begrudge the existence of a new one so much as long as it looked…better than the old one. But this is such a wasted effort.

You're mistaken, new OP is a Voyager, I have the Hasbro file right here, it's in the Generations 2015 Voyager folder and the images start with "Gen Voyager Optimus". Leaders are $45, Voyagers are $25.

My mistake, early reports I read had it labeled as a Leader, and that seemed to make sense with a new Leader Megatron also coming out. Really, it being the same size as the old Voyager and still not even being as close to as awesome as that toy makes it come off even worse.