Energon discussion thread (spoilers)

Acronyms and abbreviations are fun. That, or these lines don't deserve quite enough respect for full names.
Robots In Disguise, Armada, Energon, Cybertron - there, that's their names, happy now???

Energon discussion thread (spoilers)

Postby Dominic » Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:57 am

I just saw the last episode of "Energon".

Hoookay. Putting aside some really bad dialogue, ("Team Work!"), this did not live down the expectations I had of it. With a few lines of explication, "Energon" does more to handle Unicron intelligently than volumes of fan-wank club material, which tries to use "Unicron as a universal constant" to justify every appearance of the character.

And, unlike the allegedly "epic" endings we get in the US, the endiing of "Energon" actually felt like....and ending.

Of course, "Crisis on Infinite Earths" had an ending of sorts, and that got messy shortly after. And, that seems to be the case here as well.

The "black hole" in "Cybertron" was stated to be Unicron, (in the US at least), which contradicts what seemed to be the implied location at the end of "Energon". Of course, we could also assume that the black hole simply opened up, independently of the sun Unicron became at the end of "Energon". If we assume Unicron as a universal constant, then that makes as much sense as anything else.

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Re: Energon discussion thread (spoilers)

Postby Onslaught Six » Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:23 pm

I don't understand how Prowl could stand the series. It's just God-awful. I bought one of the DVDs recently because it was five dollars and I wanted to see if it was as bad as I remembered it being. It was worse.

It showed incredible promise, but so many factors of it are just 'bad.' The dub is atrocious and there's so many missing plot elements and the backgrounds are unfinished half the time and it *sucks.* It's horrible and trash and is the single worst TF show ever.

It is the only thing I have ever been embarrassed about watching when I was 'home alone.' 'By myself.' I once watched several episodes in a row and proceeded to apologise to myself for having done that.
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Re: Energon discussion thread (spoilers)

Postby Mako Crab » Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:39 pm

Don't beat yourself up too much. I rewatched the entire show and wrote retrospectives about each episode to determine for myself if it really was as bad as everyone always said.

It is.

I struggled for a while to come to grips with it, because the series started out fairly strong. For 26 episodes in a row the story seemed to progress smoothly and there was a clear sense of direction being made despite the occasional dub error or annoying forgetfulness on the part of the cast. Even after that mile marker at episode 26 there were still some good episodes to look forward to and some genuinely good moments in the show.
But somewhere in all that was the creeping sensation that something wasn't quite right. And somewhere in that smattering of post #26 stories, I realized that I wasn't enjoying this anymore and that I had somehow been duped into watching a really, really bad giant mech anime.

In my post series analysis, I cited an all-consuming fear by the writers of rocking the boat when it came to the status quo. No matter what happens in the story, things just grind along like they always did.

Megatron is ressurected. By the next episode it's back to normal as though Scorponok were still commanding the troops.
Starscream is ressurected. A character whose rich personal history from Armada goes untapped in Energon.
Unicron is ressurected. The Autobots still hold him off.
Unicron is destroyed. The Decepticons continue their campaign of conquest with little-to-no inconvienence.
The Autobots retake Cybertron... just in time for Galvatron to leave and threaten everything else they thought they had just secured.
Galvatron grows big. Optimus Prime grows bigger (and really, what better metaphor to illustrate the never-changing status quo).

You want to talk about missing plot elements, how about the plot itself? So many sub-plots and loose ends were just completely forgotten about or ignored. Several characters were shoved into the background never to be seen again. The recurring characters we do get are painfully 2-dimensional with the biggest offender being Megatron/Galvatron himself. On my own personal scale he ranks as the worst Megatron/Galvatron of all time (at least those portrayed in the cartoons).

The only saving grace of this show were the other Decepticons, who I did enjoy watching. Despite how badly they were treated (no more so than the bore-fest Autobots), and how both Starscream and Demolishor's character arcs got screwed over massively, they were still the only thing I had to look forward to in each episode. Even the humans were more interesting to watch than the Autobots. They were just so... boring.
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Re: Energon discussion thread (spoilers)

Postby BWprowl » Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:43 am

I do appreciate this thread Dom. Thanks. :)

I've never tried to defend Energon from a technical standpoint. The dub misses like a drunk playing darts, the CGI is bad (though not as bad as Cybertron's IMO), and the plot gets decidedly nutty towards the end. But damn, I just can't help but enjoy the thing, and not even just from a 'so bad it's good' standpoint. Maybe it's my animu-liquified brain, but I actually enjoy most of the base plot, especially the two everyone-vs-Unicron multi-parters, and anything involving Shockblast or Sixshot. Oh, and 'Distribution/Greatest Dreammatch' is a delight on sooooo many levels. And when the animation ditches the CGI and does key scenes using cels (Inferno's branding, the final fight between Galvatron and Prime) it actually looks kinda good.

And Kicker. I will defend Kicker 'til the day I die. For once, for ONCE, we have a human sidekick character that, instead of standing on the sidelines, shouting catchphrases and thinking that that helps, straps on a suit of armor, picks up one of two giant swords, and PARTICIPATES in the battles! It's great, and he's awesome for it. And totally not as annoyingly angsty as everyone accuses him of being (And hey, the relationship he had with his dad was pretty much akin to the way Dr. Venture treated Rusty...). Instead of just offering screechy commentary all the way through, Kicker's presence *mattered* to the plot. Same goes for several of the other human characters, who all continue to hold a special place in my heart.

*Looks at own signature* Some more than others, apparently...
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Re: Energon discussion thread (spoilers)

Postby Onslaught Six » Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:32 am

Shockblast was indeed cool--but these shining moments were just too little, too late to me.

Go on and read the articles on TF Wiki about Energon, and look at all the crap that was messed up in translation and horrible. And Kicker actually had many of his lines changed so he was actually 'more' angsty and crap. 'Yes.'

It's also not just that Energon was really, really bad, but it directly followed Armada...which was also really, really bad. Sure, it got better at the end, but the damage was done, and all of the animation was 'still' shitty even in the good eps. I don't know how these things ever got onto the air, to be honest.
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.


People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
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Re: Energon discussion thread (spoilers)

Postby Dominic » Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:57 pm

MAybe we should call this the "paddle BWP until he weeps from every eye" thread.

The problem with liking a show like this for its basic plot is that the rest of the show is so bad. In a general sense, the entire Unicron Trilogy was a fantastic draft that could have been cultivated to deliver all of the promise that the relaunch in '02 had.

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Re: Energon discussion thread (spoilers)

Postby Onslaught Six » Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:43 am

Oh, yes. That's partially why the shows hurt 'so much,' because there's just so much basic promise to them. Hell, we 'proved' that with the extended Cybertron RPG Bits thread.

I think the big thing is actually that Aaron Archer designed the story concepts for all three serieses--but then 'Japan' wrote all the episodes, and *then* they got translated.

Plus, CN was putting 'massive' pressure on them. Armada was horribly rushed because of this--they wanted like ten episodes *now* when all they really had finished were three. It doesn't help that they were probably working off the relative success of RID, BW and BM to dictate what they were doing. They aired Armada next to the new He-Man eps, for Chrissake.

Then Armada was horrible, so they shafted it to 6 AM, and that's where TF stayed until Animated. It's also back there now, heey.
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.


People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
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Re: Energon discussion thread (spoilers)

Postby Dominic » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:04 am

Cartoon Network's general pattern seems to be starting shows off in good time slots, then moving them around which not only frees up the desirable time-slots, but also requires viewers to hunt around and watch more CN to catch the shows they like.

Apparently, more people take that ride rather than simply give up.

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Re: Energon discussion thread (spoilers)

Postby Sparky Prime » Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:09 pm

Dominic wrote:The "black hole" in "Cybertron" was stated to be Unicron, (in the US at least), which contradicts what seemed to be the implied location at the end of "Energon". Of course, we could also assume that the black hole simply opened up, independently of the sun Unicron became at the end of "Energon". If we assume Unicron as a universal constant, then that makes as much sense as anything else.

From what I've read, Energon was originally conceived to end with Unicron's destruction resulting in the black hole. However, the writers for the show apparently decided they didn't like that ending and created a sun instead. Not sure if they realized the black hole was supposed to be used to bridge to the next show, but apparently not as it obviously caused some problems with the continuity.
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Re: Energon discussion thread (spoilers)

Postby Mako Crab » Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:38 pm

The 26th episode actually works better as a lead-in to Cybertron than the 52nd episode. Unicron is still destroyed and creates a rip in space at the same time. Everyone falls through the black hole, but whatever. So some of them made it out alive or whatever.

But then you have Earth in the Cybertron show where no one knows about the Transformers. The general public, perhaps, *somehow* could have been kept in the dark, but then we see Col. Franklin trying to find the truth. If even he doesn't know about Ocean city, Jungle city, Desert city, etc. etc., then that's just sad.
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