Megatron Was Right...

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Megatron Was Right...

Postby badwolf » Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:59 pm

So I've been watching Beast Machines the past few nights & Megatron was right. Cybertron is a world of machines, Primus was a machine...NOT an organic. Too bad Tankor/Rhinox could not have eliminated Primal & Magatron & removed the organic from Cybertron. Primal was just as much a fanatic as Megatron. Cheetor by this time had become a MUCH better leader than Primal. Cheetor vs. Tankor would have become a great battle & storyline to follow.
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Re: Megatron Was Right...

Postby andersonh1 » Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:14 pm

You're mixing up continuities here.

Beast Machines established that Cybertron had once been organic. Nightscream scanned old bones to get his bat mode, and there were other fossils buried deep under Cybertron. In Beast Machines continuity, Cybertron was never Primus.

Primus is mentioned in Beast Wars of course, but then a number of things changed from Beast Wars to Beast Machines, not the least of which was the Transformers afterlife going from the Matrix/The Pit to simply the Allspark.

As for Cheetor, I'm not too sure he was a better leader than Primal. Certainly he was more clear-headed in the first season, but he was still fairly rash, and relied more on instinct and daring than on careful planning. I would say in many ways he made a good lieutenant to Primal, and the two balanced each other out fairly well. Tankor would have either smashed him, or else when Rhinox' conciousness surfaced, would have outplanned him in every way.
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Re: Megatron Was Right...

Postby Sparky Prime » Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:29 pm

andersonh1 wrote:In Beast Machines continuity, Cybertron was never Primus.

I'd have to disagree with you given Beast Machines is a part of the BW/G1 continuity. I'd have to point out though, that the details of the G1 in this continuity are a bit fuzzy given the writers of BW/BM took elements from both the G1 cartoon as well as the G1 comics. Primus specifically is a concept from the comics that did not exist in the cartoon. Although, I'd also point out a recent retcon established Primus as a "multiversal singularity" and as such exists in all TF universes. Anyway, in the comics Primus was shown to be a part of Cybertron after he had reshaped a lifeless metallic planetoid (which he trapped himself inside to get Unicron to do the same) into Cybertron. The G1 cartoon gives us that some of Cybertron's lower levels are composed of rock/dirt. The H3 comics later added that Primus still created Cybertron in this universe, and that the Quintessons moved in afterwords to hinder the development of the Cybertronians and use them for their own personal gain.

I did like the concept of the techno-organic bodies (although not the look of their robot modes) but overall I have to say I was never a fan of the idea in Beast Machines that Cybertron was once organic, or that the Maximals had to 'restore the balance' to the planet. I mean really, what was the point? The planet has gotten along just fine as a purely mechanical world for millions of years.
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Re: Megatron Was Right...

Postby Onslaught Six » Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:27 am

Primus wasn't technically a machine--he was a God. So he didn't technically have 'any' form, organic or mechanical.

badwolf wrote:Primal was just as much a fanatic as Megatron.


Because that's totally not Primal's entire character arc in Beast Machines. It's halfway through or so when he realizes "Oh, hey, waitaminute, I'm being used, and Cybertron being purely organic isn't the answer at all," and that's when he starts insisting on creating balance.

Sparky Prime wrote:I did like the concept of the techno-organic bodies (although not the look of their robot modes) but overall I have to say I was never a fan of the idea in Beast Machines that Cybertron was once organic, or that the Maximals had to 'restore the balance' to the planet. I mean really, what was the point? The planet has gotten along just fine as a purely mechanical world for millions of years.


Nobody really did. Even I still don't totally agree with it, but I accept it as part of BM's ideology and realize that BM kinda stands by itself. It's not the Awesome Sequel To Beast Wars Everyone Wanted, but it's awesome in its own right--it's more or less TF doing The Matrix before it was really cool to rip off The Matrix.

3H didn't agree with the concept that Cybertron should be techno-organic either. That's why they made it so the whole thing--the Oracle talking to Primal--was just Cryotek and the Quintessons manipulating him. Of course, how much that actively 'counts' all depends on how much the new BW comics have supposedly overwritten, or if you use 'either' set of ancillary materials.
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Re: Megatron Was Right...

Postby BWprowl » Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:32 am

Sparky Prime wrote:I mean really, what was the point? The planet has gotten along just fine as a purely mechanical world for millions of years.

Uh...no it hasn't. Cybertron was constantly in either a state of full-blown war, or at least very deep civil unrest only kept (more-or-less) in check by a flimsy treaty, pretty much since its people got a hold of it. Part of the idea of making it techoorganic was that doing so would at least solve their energy crisis, and that would eliminate one of the main causes of the various conflicts.
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Re: Megatron Was Right...

Postby Dominic » Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:10 pm

And, we have to assume that techno-organic TFs would not be functionally immortal, as wholly mechanical TFs would be.


3H nasty little polemic was functionally undone by the fan-club, which has the Oracle manipulated by Cryotek and the Quintessons, and them being manipulated by Primus. Say what I will about the fan-club, and it was probably a shot at Hallit more than anything else, but it was well handled.

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Re: Megatron Was Right...

Postby Sparky Prime » Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:51 pm

BWprowl wrote:Uh...no it hasn't. Cybertron was constantly in either a state of full-blown war, or at least very deep civil unrest only kept (more-or-less) in check by a flimsy treaty, pretty much since its people got a hold of it. Part of the idea of making it techoorganic was that doing so would at least solve their energy crisis, and that would eliminate one of the main causes of the various conflicts.

I was really talking about the planet its self but ok, Cybertron has gotten along just fine as a purely mechanical world, save for it's inhabitants fighting each other. Which would really be no different on an organic planet if you think about it given some animals eat other animals. And they never said anything in BM about the techno-organic solving any energy crisis. They never said anything in BW/BM about even having an energy crisis. The energy crisis in the G1 cartoon was solved when the Plasma Energy Chamber absorbed access solar energy from our sun (after Galvatron tried to blow it up), restoring Cybertron to it's Golden Age.

Onslaught Six wrote:Of course, how much that actively 'counts' all depends on how much the new BW comics have supposedly overwritten, or if you use 'either' set of ancillary materials.

The only thing I can think of IDW's BW comic has overwritten is H3's "Reaching the Omega Point" comic. "The Gathering" and "The Ascending" take place during or after season 3 of Beast Wars but before Beast Machines.
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Re: Megatron Was Right...

Postby Dominic » Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:55 pm

BWP is right in saying that fighting for fuel is one of the main causes of conflicts. In G1, the fight for for fuel. In BW, Megatron was looking for energon as much as he was trying alter history. The fact the planet had energon was enough to mitigate the fact they were not sure where or when they actually were.

And, being techno-organic would open up other options for fueling TFs.

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Re: Megatron Was Right...

Postby Sparky Prime » Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:21 pm

Given the Autobot's time on Earth, I can think of at least two energy sources they could have picked up and applied to Cybertron. By the Beast era we saw Cybertron was in orbit of a star, so solar power would be an obvious choice for them to utilize. BM also showed us several water ways had been constructed in which hydro-power could have been utilized as well. And again, the Plasma Energy Chamber was still around in BM, and was obviously still a powerful source of energy. Even if worst came to worst, the Maximals had several exploration vessels that probably have charted energon deposits on other planets. I just can't see a need for a techno-organic power source when they would have all these other options available to them by this point in time.

Megatron's lust for energon in BW was about gathering enough for an army of Predacons to restart the Great War. Given the Maximals are in control of Cybertron in the Beast era, they probably ensure the Predacons have the energy they need but not enough to start a war.
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Re: Megatron Was Right...

Postby BWprowl » Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:03 am

Sparky Prime wrote:I just can't see a need for a techno-organic power source when they would have all these other options available to them by this point in time.

Because it's easier...
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