All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

The modern comics universe has had such a different take on G1, one that's significantly represented by the Generations toys, so they share a forum. A modern take on a Real Cybertronian Hero. Currently starring Generations toys, IDW "The Transformers" comics, MTMTE, TF vs GI Joe, and Windblade. Oh wait, and now Skybound, wheee!
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Gomess
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by Gomess »

Dominic wrote:Where do you get Skywarp being afraid of being purposeless?
Say it with me now... from his freakin' tech spec.
Skywarp's tech spec wrote:Would be useless without Megatron's supervision.
Please don't imply I mix fanfic with canon. That's a bit low and, more importantly, totally out of nowhere. All the references I've made in this thread have been from G1 tech specs I actually own. I like to think I've come a long way since the- unintentionally- confusing days of old.

And yep, ok, that Marvel-aligned bio seems pretty inline with IDW's characterisation, though it'd benefit from using the word HONOUR. Good for them! But it's still not the tech spec and cartoon I grew up with. So, you can perhaps see where I'm coming from.
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by Onslaught Six »

That's certainly a creative reading, since what I get from that is "so stupid/apathetic he would be completely ineffective." He's not 'afraid' of being purposeless. He's just not very good at staying on task without constant supervision. Very similar to Bruticus' "Liable to stand around in the middle of a battle if not told what to do."

If Skywarp isn't constantly told what to do and given tasks, he's liable to goof off or forget what he's supposed to be doing and instead cause random terror. Which is usually fine for a Decepticon, but every so often you need a guy to do something specific. If Megatron says, "Guard this doorway," Skywarp will guard it...for about an hour, and then he'll get bored and try to leave. If Megatron doesn't constantly call him up and say, "HEY SKYWARP ARE YOU STILL GUARDING THAT DOORWAY LIKE I TOLD YOU TO DUMB FUCKER?" then he'll forget he has to guard the doorway.
Gomess wrote:And yep, ok, that Marvel-aligned bio seems pretty inline with IDW's characterisation, though it'd benefit from using the word HONOUR. Good for them! But it's still not the tech spec and cartoon I grew up with. So, you can perhaps see where I'm coming from.
McCarthy's whole thing was looking at the techspecs and going, "Yep, this is what this guy was supposed to act like." Take Soundwave, for instance, who in AHM is exactly the conniving, backstabbing kind of guy his techspecs described. When Starscream and the Constructicons show up to stage their coup, Megatron basically goes, "Yeah, I already know. Soundwave told me."

The cartoon had a habit of taking the tech specs and occasionally ignoring them entirely, like Frenzy, for example, who just becomes Rumble In Red. Also, the TFU profiles were what Budiansky originally wrote as long-form bios for all the characters that were later shortened for the box tech specs. Thundy's box tech specs (here: http://www.ntfa.net/ntfa/techspecs/inde ... dercracker) are word-for-word from that, just condensed and missing information. (For example, the techspec makes no mention of innocent human lives.)
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

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Onslaught Six wrote:McCarthy's whole thing was looking at the techspecs and going, "Yep, this is what this guy was supposed to act like."
See, I know that's the popular opinion of AHM and such, but I honestly didn't see it as much as everyone else. Maybe it's just because I'm so used to my interpretation of the G1 characters, and, to be more honest, *bored* of seeing them rehashed. Oo, Megatron and Starscream having a conversation.. I wonder what the subtext is.. -_- And the Constructicons' teasing of the humans is funny, but what exactly is that based on? And one of Reflector being disenfranchised? Wut?

I guess I would've loved to see a piece of fiction that drew directly from the toy tech specs (and not this TFU book, as I keep reiterating)... *in the 80s*. Or even the 90s. But now... meh!

Also I never got the impression from Skywarp's tech spec that he'd be willing to murder Thundercracker.

Or that Decepticon jets refer to each other as "brother". I know that's not really relevant to this conversation, but gawd that made me lol as much as "honour".

...But hey, I liked the bit where the president is killed off-panel. Of course, I would've liked such a well-executed scene in any story. Not sure it had anything to do with Transformers.
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

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Yeah, I always read the "needs supervision" bit to mean that Skywarp was just not a very good soldier/worker. The profile makes a great point of saying that Skywarp was not very bright despite having what was arguably the best power set.
Please don't imply I mix fanfic with canon
Sorry. That is where I thought you were going though.
And one of Reflector being disenfranchised? Wut?
Did he have a profile? I do not recall one in the mailer box that I got. (This was 25 or so years ago. So, I might be forgetting.) The DW sourcebook presented them as creepy stalker types. But, much of DW is being ignored.
Also I never got the impression from Skywarp's tech spec that he'd be willing to murder Thundercracker.
Skywarp is a mean SOB who does not think about what he is told to do. Murder is totally in his range.

What is it about characters having basic recognizable principles that is so mock worthy?


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- more irked by descriptions of "robots as people" in Wreckers, but much of that was Verity the unreliable narrator.
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

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Dominic wrote:Skywarp is a mean SOB who does not think about what he is told to do. Murder is totally in his range.
See, this is a fundamental point we've disagreed on before. "Mean SOB" =/= "Murderer". Geez I've overused that =/= thing lately. Murder is a cheap, boring plot device in this case.
Dominic wrote:What is it about characters having basic recognizable principles that is so mock worthy?
Emphasis on "basic". I've made it clear I like the toy tech specs, but found IDW's portrayals a little laughably unsubtle and- prepare yourself- fanficcy at times. (Only a little, though; you're blowing my chuckles out of proportion by focusing on them, but I don't blame you. Who cares about discussing positives? I liked the execution of the president's death!!) I figured we'd have come further since 1985, and like I said, I'm getting tired of the rehashes. But yeah, you might have to work that one out yourself, 'cos I feel like I'm going in circles here.

Reflector's tech spec described them as loving to observe things, particularly vegetation, architecture, and their comrades' mistakes. Impressed with their own ability. Oh, and refers to them as a single individual, which is something I hadn't noticed before. The "outcast Reflector" element of AHM especially irked me because it was clearly part of a longer-running arc and just went nowhere within the space of AHM. Such is the inherent weaknesses of comics, I guess.
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by Dominic »

I do not think that any iteration of Skywarp was squeemish about violence. If he was told to do something, he would do it. Killing Thundercracker for breaking rank made sense.
Emphasis on "basic". I've made it clear I like the toy tech specs, but found IDW's portrayals a little laughable at times
What was actually lacking? What would you want?
Reflector's tech spec described them as loving to observe things, particularly vegetation, architecture, and their comrades' mistakes. Impressed with their own ability. Oh, and refers to them as a single individual, which is something I hadn't noticed before. The "outcast Reflector" element of AHM especially irked me because it was clearly part of a longer-running arc and just went nowhere within the space of AHM. Such is the inherent weaknesses of comics, I guess.
Ah, so they did have an origional profile? (I was usually pretty good about saving those as a kid....)

Reflector is kind of problematic in general. He showed up in a "Spotlight" issue, (toy accurate no less), and was stongly implied to have died far from Earth.

Given where the scene from AHM was, I would assume it was another example of "this is what Decepticons do when they get bored". Reflector looks genuinely sad that all of his new toys are broken. Bombshell torments his comrades. Skywarp tries to relive "old times". Thundercracker mopes. Reflector kills things.


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-and, Decepticon ennui was kind of the point...
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

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Dominic wrote:I do not think that any iteration of Skywarp was squeemish about violence.
Ok, you're just never gonna understand me on this. There is a very thick line between violence and murder. The fact that Skywarp stepped right over that line without even a moment's hesitation shows that he is beyond a vicious grunt; he is a boring non-character whose only purpose was to make Thundercracker's "noble sacrifice" into an actual sacrifice. It came off as a crap little plot device to me. And the "brother" and "honour" stuff so nearby just made it read like fanfic.
What was actually lacking? What would you want?
sssssubtletyyyyyyy?

You're the same guy I was talking to yesterday, right? I don't "want" anything. That's not how I work. But if you insist, what I "want" is less G1 rehashing.

...So wait, the outcast Reflector *didn't* have wider relevance in the series? Well that's just confounding. I'm not sure whether that makes it better or worse. I guess I just didn't get what they were trying to convey.

And yes, ennui (on both sides, surely) was the point. The blunt, iron-bolt-studded point with which my head was repeatedly bludgeoned. Like I said, same old, same old. But you like concept-based fiction, so naturally our opinions on this particular story differ strongly.
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by Onslaught Six »

Reflector being used there was simply to show various Decepticons getting bored with assaulting human cities. It could have just as easily been someone else, but most of the other Decepticons were being used elsewhere. (You could also make a case that their techspec's described curiosity about the world was a factor--they were interacting with humans on a face-to-face level perhaps for the first time. And, for Transformers, a race of beings that can be torn apart and not put back together could be particularly fascinating.)

I'm not sure why you're bothering to make such a distinction between the techspecs and the TFU profiles, though, since I've said before they're fundamentally the same thing. The TFU profiles just provide more information. Budiansky wrote both. (Or he wrote the TFU profiles, which were then used as basis for the techspecs. Whether Budiansky did the omitting or some Hasbro underling did is kind of unclear.)

In Thundy's case, maybe "honour" was the wrong word McCarthy could have used. Either way, fundamentally Thundy is saving innocent human lives because the Decepticons using their own bomb against them is a dirty tactic in his book. He's against human deaths for the sake of human deaths--especially since Megatron's attack on the cities is a diversion to keep the Decepticons busy while Megatron plots his next move.
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

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Onslaught Six wrote:You could also make a case that their techspec's described curiosity about the world was a factor--they were interacting with humans on a face-to-face level perhaps for the first time.
Bear in mind of course that I had no idea about that. And even if I had, I probably couldn't suspend my disbelief long enough. I've seen that opening scene so many different times, it'd be really hard for me to imagine it in a new context. So, I struggled.
Onslaught Six wrote:I'm not sure why you're bothering to make such a distinction between the techspecs and the TFU profiles
Because to me, they're not fundamentally the same thing. I was raised on one, and not the other. Why do you bother to make a distinction between speed metal and industrial? All sounds the same, y'know.
Onslaught Six wrote:In Thundy's case, maybe "honour" was the wrong word McCarthy could have used.
It was the way it was used, not just the word. Every sentence Thundercracker said was a clunky cliché. And the fact he said honour *twice* in such a short space of time.
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by Onslaught Six »

Gomess wrote:
Onslaught Six wrote:You could also make a case that their techspec's described curiosity about the world was a factor--they were interacting with humans on a face-to-face level perhaps for the first time.
Bear in mind of course that I had no idea about that. And even if I had, I probably couldn't suspend my disbelief long enough. I've seen that opening scene so many different times, it'd be really hard for me to imagine it in a new context. So, I struggled.
Reflector wasn't in the opening scene. Are you thinking about the Constructicons now?
Because to me, they're not fundamentally the same thing. I was raised on one, and not the other. Why do you bother to make a distinction between speed metal and industrial? All sounds the same, y'know.
No, it's more like you randomly disliking the album version of a Beatles song because it's not the edited-down radio version. One is derived entirely from the other and only cut down to that size due to space restrictions. To ignore the TFU bios is to ignore Budiansky's intent.
It was the way it was used, not just the word. Every sentence Thundercracker said was a clunky cliché. And the fact he said honour *twice* in such a short space of time.
Eh.

AHM has its problems but it's still closer to any interpretation of TF I've ever liked.
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.
People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
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