Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion
- andersonh1
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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion
To be fair, a number of scientists in actual history were religious (Isaac Newton is a prime example). In some ways it was their belief in an ordered universe and laws set down by God that that governed their approach to science and learning about what we would now call natural law. It's more of a modern attitude to pit science against religion than a historic one.
Jetfire does not have to be presumed to be an athiest if he has a strong, orderly, scientific mindset. He probably is, given that the writers probably have that modern mindset, but he doesn't have to be.
Jetfire does not have to be presumed to be an athiest if he has a strong, orderly, scientific mindset. He probably is, given that the writers probably have that modern mindset, but he doesn't have to be.
- Sparky Prime
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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion
Not saying he has to be atheist, but yeah, that is what the writers intended.andersonh1 wrote:Jetfire does not have to be presumed to be an athiest if he has a strong, orderly, scientific mindset. He probably is, given that the writers probably have that modern mindset, but he doesn't have to be.
Interestingly, while looking for any article about this, I'm seeing several fans believe Optimus Prime in the previous IDW continuity was atheist as well, or perhaps at least agnostic.
Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion
In the McDonough/Patyck series, Jetfire being atheist was plot-relevant. (When there is no rational explanation, the only rational thing to do is to assume a supernatural cause. In that case, it was Sunstorm's curious inability to die.) He specifically ruled out a non-scientific reason for Sunstorm's inexplicable abilities. After several issues worth of "impossible" events, Jetfire eventually conceded that there was no scientific explanation. (I am not sure how giant space robots would define "impossible". But, the bar would likely be pretty high.)But Jetfire's position in DW about everything having a rationalized scientific explanation and dismissal of supernatural explanations still made it clear what his views are. That was carried over in his portrayal in IDW.
Dreamwave's characterization may have carried over to IDW. But, I do not recall it ever being as directly relevant to the plot as it was for Dreamwave's short run with the license.
I think that the division took root when scientific discoveries made a literal reading of the Bible, or other traditional assumptions, more difficult. At one point (not too long ago all things considered), the idea of a round world that orbited the sun (rather than being the central point of the solar system, or universe) was considered heretical.It's more of a modern attitude to pit science against religion than a historic one.
I never saw Prime as agnostic about the existence of gods, so much as I saw him skeptical about their motives.
Interestingly, while looking for any article about this, I'm seeing several fans believe Optimus Prime in the previous IDW continuity was atheist as well, or perhaps at least agnostic.
- Sparky Prime
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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion
Sunstorm's abilities were explained by technological means in the comic though.... He was fitted with a solar-powered fusion reactor, had a reinforced structure to better withstand the stresses of having such a reactor built into him and enhanced regenerative capabilities. Just before Sunstorm explodes at the end, Jetfire concedes there might be something more to Sunstorm's ability to regenerate, as he's never seen anything so consistently come back from what they'd thrown at him. It's not actually an admittance of something "impossible" or supernatural though, just that he's starting to question if he should consider that as a possibility.Dominic wrote:In the McDonough/Patyck series, Jetfire being atheist was plot-relevant. (When there is no rational explanation, the only rational thing to do is to assume a supernatural cause. In that case, it was Sunstorm's curious inability to die.) He specifically ruled out a non-scientific reason for Sunstorm's inexplicable abilities. After several issues worth of "impossible" events, Jetfire eventually conceded that there was no scientific explanation. (I am not sure how giant space robots would define "impossible". But, the bar would likely be pretty high.)
"Dark Ages" was a bit more direct in this regard, in that Jetfire had no explanations for what happened when The Fallen opened the Well of Allsparks, and the 'hand of Primus' smote him for it.
I wouldn't exactly say it was directly relevant to the plot in DW either. Either way, neither company made a specific statement about it in the comics themselves. But the portrayal of the character was consistent.Dreamwave's characterization may have carried over to IDW. But, I do not recall it ever being as directly relevant to the plot as it was for Dreamwave's short run with the license.
- Ursus mellifera
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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion
Pretty much. It's not difficult to be a scientist and religious, but reconciling the two requires thought, and the more nit-picky, time-period specific aspects of religion need to be ignored for it to work. Frankly, most modern societies have already done this with most aspects of Leviticus (like it being sinful to cut one's hair and/or beard, cotton being unclean, and like 40 other things that don't apply anymore mostly thanks to antibiotics and improved hygiene). The core beliefs of a religion, the things that make it what it is, are all magical faith-based things that can't be disproven (one can't disprove the existence of God, for example, or disprove an afterlife). To play nice with science you just have to drop the fluff.Dominic wrote:I think that the division took root when scientific discoveries made a literal reading of the Bible, or other traditional assumptions, more difficult. At one point (not too long ago all things considered), the idea of a round world that orbited the sun (rather than being the central point of the solar system, or universe) was considered heretical.It's more of a modern attitude to pit science against religion than a historic one.
I got that impression as well. Being distrustful of something isn't the same as not believing in it; just look at Satan.I never saw Prime as agnostic about the existence of gods, so much as I saw him skeptical about their motives.Interestingly, while looking for any article about this, I'm seeing several fans believe Optimus Prime in the previous IDW continuity was atheist as well, or perhaps at least agnostic.
Check it out, a honey bear! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinkajou
Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion
I agree which why I'm a Pastafarian. Yes, it's a real thing.Ursus mellifera wrote:(one can't disprove the existence of God, for example, or disprove an afterlife). To play nice with science you just have to drop the fluff.
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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion
Flying Spaghetti Monster?Shockwave wrote:I agree which why I'm a Pastafarian. Yes, it's a real thing.Ursus mellifera wrote:(one can't disprove the existence of God, for example, or disprove an afterlife). To play nice with science you just have to drop the fluff.
Check it out, a honey bear! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinkajou
Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion
You know it!Ursus mellifera wrote:Flying Spaghetti Monster?Shockwave wrote:I agree which why I'm a Pastafarian. Yes, it's a real thing.Ursus mellifera wrote:(one can't disprove the existence of God, for example, or disprove an afterlife). To play nice with science you just have to drop the fluff.
issue 7
Issue 7:
The current issue of "Transformers" is poly-bagged with a pack of trading cards. (I would have preferred series 2. But,
it is a nice extra.)
This issue focuses primarily on character''s reacting to Rubble's murder, and is meant to be the start of the second arc. But, it reads like the end of the first arc, or a transition issue, making it seem redundant after reading issue 6. (In hindsight, It might have been better if Ruckley had parsed issue 6 as a series of flashbacks during the previous issues.)
The current issue of "Transformers" is poly-bagged with a pack of trading cards. (I would have preferred series 2. But,
it is a nice extra.)
This issue focuses primarily on character''s reacting to Rubble's murder, and is meant to be the start of the second arc. But, it reads like the end of the first arc, or a transition issue, making it seem redundant after reading issue 6. (In hindsight, It might have been better if Ruckley had parsed issue 6 as a series of flashbacks during the previous issues.)
- Sparky Prime
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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion
Angel Hernandez's art in this issue seems especially bad, compared to the previous issues he's worked on.
So yeah, not a whole lot really happens here. Mostly just various characters reacting to Rubble's death. Two points of interest though, Sentinel Prime is coming back to Cybertron to deal with the situation. And we find out Cyclonus isn't just living out in the wilderness because he wants to be isolated from people, but he's actually keeping watch, standing guard over something. I presume the monument where the final battle of the Threefold Spark took place, but there seems to be more to it, given Cyclonus seems to think Exarchon could come back.
So yeah, not a whole lot really happens here. Mostly just various characters reacting to Rubble's death. Two points of interest though, Sentinel Prime is coming back to Cybertron to deal with the situation. And we find out Cyclonus isn't just living out in the wilderness because he wants to be isolated from people, but he's actually keeping watch, standing guard over something. I presume the monument where the final battle of the Threefold Spark took place, but there seems to be more to it, given Cyclonus seems to think Exarchon could come back.