Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

The modern comics universe has had such a different take on G1, one that's significantly represented by the Generations toys, so they share a forum. A modern take on a Real Cybertronian Hero. Currently starring Generations toys, IDW "The Transformers" comics, MTMTE, TF vs GI Joe, and Windblade. Oh wait, and now Skybound, wheee!
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Sparky Prime
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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Post by Sparky Prime »

Dominic wrote:You may be reading too much in to the crowd scenes. IDW does not pitch to GeeWunners the way that DreamWave did (with "the War Within").
How am I reading too much into the crowd scenes? So far this comic is playing out exactly how I'd expect it to, given what they've shown (or not shown) us thus far. It would make a difference if the crowd was all recognizable Decepticons. Or even certain hot headed Autobot characters. It totally makes a difference that these crowd scenes have been filled with generics. The violence doesn't come from those who attend the rallies, it's been coming from another source specifically to attack them.
In the first issue, Megatron is planning a rally that is likely to be attended by members of the Rise (who are shown to be amenable to Megatron's message). There is precedent for violence, which Megatron seems to accept. He may not approve of the violence. But, he wants support from the Rise.
That is not at all what the comic has shown us at all. The Rise hasn't attended the Ascenticon rallies, they've attacked them, and Megatron specifically. Again, this most issue has Megatron pointing out: "Do you want me to condemn the violence of The Rise Orion? I will do so. For the thousandth time. They might have stolen some Ascenticon ideas, but the extremity of their response to Autobot intransigence is not our way.". Megatron's indifference in the first issue was to the threat of violence stopping him from holding the rally in the first place. He wants to get his message out to bring about change above all else. He doesn't want the support of The Rise, or the violence they bring with them here. That is not the Ascenticon way.
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Shockwave
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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Post by Shockwave »

Sparky Prime wrote:It would make a difference if the crowd was all recognizable Decepticons.
I don't see how. At least not to the story itself. To the reader, sure. But, since I'm not a Geewunner, I don't need my crowd scenes populated by "toys a played with as a kid. Or possibly last week". In terms of story, a crowd is a crowd, you're not going to get character development out of each character in the crowd unless that's the point of the story. Sometimes it is, and if the point was to show Megatron speaking to the future Decepticons, sure, it would need recognizable characters. Since that obviously wasn't the point of that scene, then it doesn't matter who the crowd is composed of.
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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

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Shockwave wrote:I don't see how. At least not to the story itself. To the reader, sure. But, since I'm not a Geewunner, I don't need my crowd scenes populated by "toys a played with as a kid. Or possibly last week". In terms of story, a crowd is a crowd, you're not going to get character development out of each character in the crowd unless that's the point of the story. Sometimes it is, and if the point was to show Megatron speaking to the future Decepticons, sure, it would need recognizable characters. Since that obviously wasn't the point of that scene, then it doesn't matter who the crowd is composed of.
I haven't said anything about needing the crowds to be filled with recognizable characters (I'm not a Geewunner either for the record, not that I see that should matter here). But in terms of the story, the crowd is not simply just a crowd. They've deliberately filled the crowds with only generic characters. They want us to see that these are ordinary, every day citizens, rather than recognizable characters that we already know their temperament and allegiances. This serves a purpose, showing us who Megatron is directing his message towards. Again, the average citizens. Not the angry violent types. Decepticons have the tendency to be violent characters. Do they not? This is also why I also said certain hot headed Autobots. It makes a difference who is in the crowd. The violence is coming from another source, while the crowd is made up of peaceful average citizens. And whoever The Rise is, they seem to be targeting Megatron. That's the whole point of the scene.
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Ursus mellifera
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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

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Sparky Prime wrote:They've deliberately filled the crowds with only generic characters. They want us to see that these are ordinary, every day citizens, rather than recognizable characters that we already know their temperament and allegiances. This serves a purpose, showing us who Megatron is directing his message towards. Again, the average citizens. Not the angry violent types. Decepticons have the tendency to be violent characters. Do they not? This is also why I also said certain hot headed Autobots. It makes a difference who is in the crowd. The violence is coming from another source, while the crowd is made up of peaceful average citizens. And whoever The Rise is, they seem to be targeting Megatron. That's the whole point of the scene.
I think you're right about the Ascenticon crowd being filled with average citizens, but I think that the threat of violence at the rallies doesn't come from the Rise; I think it comes from some of those average citizens. Any movement is going to have multiple types of people with varying degrees of volatility. I think Decepticons are likely in both groups, because they vary in personality and level of violence in the same way. I don't believe that Megatron is counting on support from the Rise. I don't think he secretly supports them. What I do think is that some of the more extreme Ascenticons have overlap with some of the less extreme members of the Rise, and I think that that is something Megatron will have to deal with as his movement gains more support.
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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Post by Dominic »

That is not at all what the comic has shown us at all. The Rise hasn't attended the Ascenticon rallies, they've attacked them, and Megatron specifically.
Violence from the Rise has disrupted Megatron's rallies. But, they are outliers to his base, not opposition. (That is why Megatron had to be asked to specifically condemn their actions.) The Rise could be opportunistically using the Ascenticons, or trying to exhort them to be more aggressive when promoting a shared ideology.
don't see how. At least not to the story itself. To the reader, sure. But, since I'm not a Geewunner, I don't need my crowd scenes populated by "toys a played with as a kid. Or possibly last week". I
Perfect. Just....perfect. (Especially the "possibly last week" part.)

Sometimes it is, and if the point was to show Megatron speaking to the future Decepticons, sure, it would need recognizable characters. Since that obviously wasn't the point of that scene, then it doesn't matter who the crowd is composed of.
Exactly. That scene is meant to show that Megatron is an elected official, and (apparently) a fiery orator. But, there was no good purpose to showing exactly what Megatron's motivations were in the first issue. (Is Megatron intentionally, or indifferently, fomenting, violence?)

On a related note: Ruckley makes a point of showing characters reacting to Quake (a known malefactor). This is a strong point in favor of Megatron intentionally fomenting violence. (Disappointing, but hard to discount.)
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Ursus mellifera
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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

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Dominic wrote:Ruckley makes a point of showing characters reacting to Quake (a known malefactor). This is a strong point in favor of Megatron intentionally fomenting violence. (Disappointing, but hard to discount.)
I believe that, currently, Megatron is actually against organized political violence, and does not support the Rise in any way (including accepting support from them). I do believe that there's more overlap between them and the Ascenticons than he'd like to admit. Quake being in the Ascenticons, despite not having done anything since the series began, clearly has the potential to be an unstable crazy. I think Quake and/or a group of Ascenticons like him are going to go too far and do something inexcusable. I think that action is going to be met with ridiculous overkill on the part of the Autobots, resulting in the deaths of multiple uninvolved Ascenticons. I think this will be the catalyst that pushes Megatron into accepting that violence is justified in order to achieve his goals; that the Ascenticons will merge with the Rise, and that the Decepticon name will begin as a derisive Autobot term that Megatron adopts out of spite.
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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

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Dominic wrote:Violence from the Rise has disrupted Megatron's rallies. But, they are outliers to his base, not opposition. (That is why Megatron had to be asked to specifically condemn their actions.) The Rise could be opportunistically using the Ascenticons, or trying to exhort them to be more aggressive when promoting a shared ideology.
If they were part of Megatron's "base", then they wouldn't be disrupting his rallies to get out his message, let alone targeting Megatron personally. Again, you're ignoring what Megatron said. He makes it clear he has condemned the violence, but it doesn't do any good because, while the Rise has stolen some Ascenticon ideas, they are not the same.
don't see how. At least not to the story itself. To the reader, sure. But, since I'm not a Geewunner, I don't need my crowd scenes populated by "toys a played with as a kid. Or possibly last week". I
Perfect. Just....perfect. (Especially the "possibly last week" part.)
Love the passive aggressive insults you two are throwing around in this thread. :roll:
Ursus mellifera wrote:I think you're right about the Ascenticon crowd being filled with average citizens, but I think that the threat of violence at the rallies doesn't come from the Rise; I think it comes from some of those average citizens. Any movement is going to have multiple types of people with varying degrees of volatility. I think Decepticons are likely in both groups, because they vary in personality and level of violence in the same way. I don't believe that Megatron is counting on support from the Rise. I don't think he secretly supports them. What I do think is that some of the more extreme Ascenticons have overlap with some of the less extreme members of the Rise, and I think that that is something Megatron will have to deal with as his movement gains more support.
The thing about any movement having multiple types of people with varying degrees of volatility makes sense... on Earth. But they've established Cybertron in this setting to nearly be free from violence altogether. So far, they've made it pretty clear The Rise is the only source of the violence between Cybertronians on Cybertron. I am expecting some sort of plot twist at some point, but this is all they've told us as it stands currently.
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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Post by Shockwave »

Ursus mellifera wrote:
Dominic wrote:Ruckley makes a point of showing characters reacting to Quake (a known malefactor). This is a strong point in favor of Megatron intentionally fomenting violence. (Disappointing, but hard to discount.)
I believe that, currently, Megatron is actually against organized political violence, and does not support the Rise in any way (including accepting support from them). I do believe that there's more overlap between them and the Ascenticons than he'd like to admit. Quake being in the Ascenticons, despite not having done anything since the series began, clearly has the potential to be an unstable crazy. I think Quake and/or a group of Ascenticons like him are going to go too far and do something inexcusable. I think that action is going to be met with ridiculous overkill on the part of the Autobots, resulting in the deaths of multiple uninvolved Ascenticons. I think this will be the catalyst that pushes Megatron into accepting that violence is justified in order to achieve his goals; that the Ascenticons will merge with the Rise, and that the Decepticon name will begin as a derisive Autobot term that Megatron adopts out of spite.
And, this will cause Bumblebee to be away from Rubble more often, effectively leaving him alone and mentorless. Rubble will eventually hear something Megatron says and decides to join them and gets reformatted into Rumble.
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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Post by Ursus mellifera »

Shockwave wrote:And, this will cause Bumblebee to be away from Rubble more often, effectively leaving him alone and mentorless. Rubble will eventually hear something Megatron says and decides to join them and gets reformatted into Rumble.
I do want Rubble to join the Decepticons, but Rumble? God, I hope not.
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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Post by Shockwave »

Ursus mellifera wrote:
Shockwave wrote:And, this will cause Bumblebee to be away from Rubble more often, effectively leaving him alone and mentorless. Rubble will eventually hear something Megatron says and decides to join them and gets reformatted into Rumble.
I do want Rubble to join the Decepticons, but Rumble? God, I hope not.
Indeed, I genuinely hope I'm wrong about this.
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