Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

The modern comics universe has had such a different take on G1, one that's significantly represented by the Generations toys, so they share a forum. A modern take on a Real Cybertronian Hero. Currently starring Generations toys, IDW "The Transformers" comics, MTMTE, TF vs GI Joe, and Windblade. Oh wait, and now Skybound, wheee!
User avatar
Sparky Prime
Supreme-Class
Posts: 5225
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:12 am

Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Post by Sparky Prime »

Dominic wrote:Who knows how Cybertronian districts are drawn?
Who knows if Cybertron has districts in the first place? We don't even know if they're elected to be Senators. For all we know, they were appointed to their seats by some other body. This is why I keep saying you can't just assume their government is set up like ours. But even if they have some equivalent to districts, it wouldn't make sense for them to cross into other city-states, anymore then it would for a district of one state to cross into another state.
And, it is not unheard of for Senators or Reps to draw support (financial and otherwise) from out of a district. Most of the campaigning I have done above municipal has been out of district. And, I personally know people who have travelled out of state to campaign. It is not hard to assume that Megatron would draw rowdy supporters are from out of his district,
That's nice. But all we know at this point is that they believe in this one cause that Megatron is supporting. It doesn't mean the Ascenticons are supporting Megatron.
I regularly see DSA members (who are often rowdy twits) evoke Che Guevara (a dead guy from another country). And, those same people after to attach themselves to actual campaigns. And, we have seen candidates from both parties show reluctance to call out rowdy and violent elements among their supporters (especially when those rowdy elements over-lap with their base). When sitting officials say that a country's system is "irredeemable", or when then make oblique hints that tacitly endorse violence from supporters, they are embracing those elements.

None of what Megatron is shown to be doing is much beyond comprehension. (If anything, it is uncomfortably easy to comprehend.)
Are these DSA members marching in the streets for a cause? Because I'm still not seeing a correlation here...

It's not beyond comprehension for Megatron to have 'rowdy' followers, but that still doesn't mean his indifference is an endorsement or embrace of their violence.
.......to support a Senator who is sympathetic to their ideology, and would welcome their support (political or Clausewtizian).
Not necessarily. For all we know, Megatron is the only Senator supporting the cause, in which case the 'Ascenticons' might just see him as a means to an end.
User avatar
Dominic
Supreme-Class
Posts: 9331
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:55 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Post by Dominic »

Issue two shipped this week.

Transformers (2019) #2:

The second issue continues the contrast between Rubble's innocence and the cracking facade of Cybertonian stability. While Bumblebee is content enough to take things for granted, Chromia and Prowl seem more aware of how fragile paradise is. (Their dialogue indicates that investigators and law enforcement have enough to keep them busy, even on "peaceful" Cybertron.)

Rubble's purpose as an "innocent eye" nicely serves to accent the sense of wonder that a TF comic should have.

Termagax seems to be a historic figure of the sort that different groups can cross-brand with different aspects of, and can use as an icon of sorts (Wheeljack in engineering, Megatron in politics). The Rise is described as the violent wing of the Ascenticons. I suspect the line between the two will be shown as blurred in upcoming issues (similar to the Tea Party:Alt-Right, or Our Revolution:Anti-Fa).

Megatron looks like the new figure. Optimus and Soundwave do not. Prowl...not sure because of the art. Chromia, spot on to the upcoming toy.

The art in this issue is....not so good.

But even if they have some equivalent to districts, it wouldn't make sense for them to cross into other city-states, anymore then it would for a district of one state to cross into another state.
Various court circuits cross state lines in the US. And, counties (which are more similar to the olden tyme city-states) encompass multiple cities (and often have their own officials). And, individual states have their own methods of electing/replacing officials, or allocating Electors for federal elections. (I miss Gomess. I want to hear first hand accounts of the UK.)

All of the stuff that you are saying does not work has some precedent in reality.

Are these DSA members marching in the streets for a cause? Because I'm still not seeing a correlation here...
Usually standing in public squares, screaming. But, that is close enough to marching. (Some of them may not be able to multi-task enough to walk and agitate at the same time.)
Not necessarily. For all we know, Megatron is the only Senator supporting the cause, in which case the 'Ascenticons' might just see him as a means to an end.
Which means that they would back him.
User avatar
Sparky Prime
Supreme-Class
Posts: 5225
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:12 am

Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Post by Sparky Prime »

Dominic wrote:Megatron looks like the new figure. Optimus and Soundwave do not. Prowl...not sure because of the art. Chromia, spot on to the upcoming toy.
Haven't read the new issue yet, but Opti... Orion is based on the "Galaxy Upgrade" figure, rather than the first Siege figure of Optimus.
Various court circuits cross state lines in the US. And, counties (which are more similar to the olden tyme city-states) encompass multiple cities (and often have their own officials). And, individual states have their own methods of electing/replacing officials, or allocating Electors for federal elections. (I miss Gomess. I want to hear first hand accounts of the UK.)

All of the stuff that you are saying does not work has some precedent in reality.
Court Circuits is part of an entirely different branch of the government, whose job is to interpret the law of the land. The equivalent to what we're talking about however, would be Congressional Districts. They're limited to states as the Representatives and Senators of Congress and the Senate are specifically meant represent a given state and its population. And even then, the state districts really only applies to Congress as each state as a whole directly elects two Senators. And counties of a given state are still limited to state boarders. What you're talking about here isn't precedent in reality Dom, given what you're pointing out doesn't compare being an entirely different branch with entirely different purposes, or otherwise is still restricted to state boarders.
Usually standing in public squares, screaming. But, that is close enough to marching. (Some of them may not be able to multi-task enough to walk and agitate at the same time.)
Doesn't exactly sound like the type of protest or even the type of citizens we're talking about here to me...
Which means that they would back him.
No. Just because they agree with Megatron on this one issue does not mean that they back him.
User avatar
andersonh1
Moderator
Posts: 6323
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:22 pm
Location: South Carolina

Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Post by andersonh1 »

Okay, I have not put this book on my pull list yet because I'm giving it some time to see if I like it first. Both LCS were already sold out of the second issue when I went by today. Got one more bookstore to try.
User avatar
Sparky Prime
Supreme-Class
Posts: 5225
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:12 am

Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Post by Sparky Prime »

Issue 2.
Spoiler
It's interesting to find out Brainstorm is the first murder in so long that more than half the population of Cybertron wasn't even alive the last time it happened. Violence between Transformers (on Cybertron at least) is that rare, it's almost unheard of. It's certainly a big contrast to what we're used to seeing in Transformers. At any rate, Brainstorm's murder is left to be investigated by Prowl and Chromia, while Bumblebee takes Rubble to learn from Wheeljack instead, where we find out Termagax was a visionary that turned the moon into a giant energon harvester. This (and the previous issue) also highlights an interesting difference from the previous IDW continuity. While in that continuity, Functionalism had Transformers given jobs based on their alt mode, here, newborns are encouraged to explore various jobs, having the choice to do whatever they like. Bumblebee also tells Rubble that it's not the Ascenticons who are the "rowdy" ones, but an "extreme version" of them that call themselves "The Rise". Seems odd to me that if The Rise support the same ideals as the Ascenticons that they'd be attacking their rallies. Elsewhere, Megatron gives his speech (with no recognizable faces in the crowd I'd add, just Soundwave at Megatron's side) were we find out Termagax was the originator of the Ascenticon movement to begin with. And in somewhat of a similarity with IDW's previous Megatron, this version says that he feels shackled and weakened by social constraints, in particular, the "Nominus Edict" (which rations energon of every citizen), and the Autobots fear of change, keeping them at their current status quo. Megatron is attacked (apparently he's got thick armor with their shots not damaging him in the least), and while he quickly goes after assailants, they've already managed to escape.
I'd have to agree with Dom that the art on this issue was not so good. It's the same artists from the first issue, which honestly I felt could have been a bit clearer with some details in that issue as well, but this one looks like they rushed it to me.
User avatar
Dominic
Supreme-Class
Posts: 9331
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:55 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Post by Dominic »

I think that there were two artists on this issue. Regardless, the writing is good enough to hold my interest thus far.
Spoiler
Seems odd to me that if The Rise support the same ideals as the Ascenticons that they'd be attacking their rallies.
[edit: clarified blacked-out statement]

At the most basic level, was it established that
Spoiler
the Rise was attacking the Ascenticon rallies. Or, was their presence intended to merely disrupt the Ascenticon rally?
This is another thing that has precedent in real life, with single issue agitators having a narrow focus on ideological purity.

Besides the standard left:right spectrum, there is also a scale of intensity. For some people, it is not enough for others to tacitly (or even affirmatively) agree on an issue. They have to agree to the same degree, with the same level of intensity. Even the reasons behind the agreement is important. I have personally seen people refuse to work with potential allies because they disagree on unrelated tertiary issues. There are Greens who *hate* Democrats, to the point they would vote against a Democrat in a two way race, for the sake of opposing the Democrat. I personally know people who think that if you are not going out to "punch Nazis", you might be a Nazi sympathizer. (If you talk to me in more private media, I can tell you a story about this...)
Spoiler
It is not beyond credulity that the Rise would militate against the relatively moderate Ascenticons.

It might also have been a question of more rowdy elements causing a disruption while supporting a movement they agree with. The Alt-Right is a good example of this. There are elements of the Alt-Right that place an emphasis on "the Politics of Respectability". One of their tactics is to appear more sedate/benign, while provoking members of Anti-Fa in to violence. But, this tactic does not always work, as seen at the "Unite the Right" rally in 2017. The organizers were trying to provoke a reaction, and where dismayed when one of their supporters committed vehicular homicide.
Spoiler
The Rise would be similar to the guy who drove his SUV into a crowd.

Or,
Spoiler
the Rise could actually be another faction, defined in contrast to the Ascenticons by methods rather than goals.

I am impressed with how well Brian Ruckley is using workable political dynamics. He is not even scaling up the nature of the conflict as much as one might think. Megatron is essentially an agitator who is either going to lose control of his movement, or is using his formal office to create a movement that he can use to seize more power. (I took a quick look at his biography. He may have acquired political acumen working in the charity industry.)
Last edited by Dominic on Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Sparky Prime
Supreme-Class
Posts: 5225
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:12 am

Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Post by Sparky Prime »

Dominic wrote:I think that there were two artists on this issue. Regardless, the writing is good enough to hold my interest thus far.
As was there for the first issue. Angel Hernandez and Cachét Whitman did the art for both.
At the most basic level, was it established that
Spoiler
the Rise was attacking the Ascenticon rallies. Or, was there presence merely disruptive?
When this issue establishes that violence between Transformers on Cybertron is practically unheard of? That a murder hasn't occurred in half the populations lifetime (which given the life span of Cybertronians...)? No, I'm not seeing that the Ascenticons presence would be "merely disruptive" to the point it sparks violence like this on such a peaceful world. But when we've got this one extremist group who have decided talking isn't enough for them?

Now, granted, I do think there is more going on here than we've been lead to believe thus far. But I think it's clear where this is going... Transformers is not so deep as you're making this out to be.
This is another thing that has precedent in real life, with single issue agitators having a narrow focus on ideological purity.
Right, because the "precedent" you cited before were such great comparisons. Like the one from an entirely different branch of government. I'm just going to say agree to disagree.
User avatar
Dominic
Supreme-Class
Posts: 9331
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:55 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Post by Dominic »

When this issue establishes that violence between Transformers on Cybertron is practically unheard of?
My guess is that the likely reveal will be that "practically unheard of" is more a question of reporting bias than "does not happen".

Prowl and Chromia seem pretty cynical for a peace-time constabulary . (It is possible that they are cynical because of alien malefactors. But, I am skeptical of this.)

No, I'm not seeing that the Ascenticons presence would be "merely disruptive" to the point it sparks violence like this on such a peaceful world. But when we've got this one extremist group who have decided talking isn't enough for them?
I meant that
Spoiler
the Rise's presence may have been intended to disrupt the Ascenticon rally, and then escalated to violence.
Some of the most vehement protests can be aimed at agreeable moderates on the same side, rather than opponents

The real question is
Spoiler
what Megatron knows?

Is Megatron deliberately, and secretely, fomenting violence from the Rise, using them to agitate in ways that he cannot as a Senator? Similarly, did he engineer the attack on his rally (regardless of who the attack would be publicly attributed to)?

In real terms, I generally discount elaborate conspiracy theories. (If nothing else, they are generally not cost-effective.) But, this is comics, so wacky conspiracies cannot be ruled out, especially this early.
So far, this series seems smarter than you are giving it credit for being.

Right, because the "precedent" you cited before were such great comparisons. Like the one from an entirely different branch of government. I'm just going to say agree to disagree.
You are looking for ambiguity to deliberately misunderstand.
User avatar
Sparky Prime
Supreme-Class
Posts: 5225
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:12 am

Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Post by Sparky Prime »

Dominic wrote:My guess is that the likely reveal will be that "practically unheard of" is more a question of reporting bias than "does not happen".
"Reporting bias"? Common Dom. The story is more than clear that Brainstorm's murder is shocking because something like that hasn't taken place on Cybertron in a very, very long time.
I meant that
Spoiler
the Rise's presence may have been intended to disrupt the Ascenticon rally, and then escalated to violence.
Some of the most vehement protests can be aimed at agreeable moderates on the same side, rather than opponents
At this point you're deliberately mis-reading the comic if you think there was even any hint The Rise was present at the rally before the violence happened. The platform Megatron was standing on just suddenly exploded, and then somebody opened fire on Megatron. There was no escalation to violence, it jumped straight to it with out any warning.
The real question is
Spoiler
what Megatron knows?
I don't doubt Megatron knows more than we do. I wouldn't be surprised if he's actually secretly working with The Rise while publicly he remains with the Ascenticons to keep the public on his side. Essentially playing both sides. Then when his deception is exposed, we'll get the Decepticons.
So far, this series seems smarter than you are giving it credit for being.
I'd be pleasantly surprised if it is smarter than I'm giving it credit for. But so far, it's pretty standard as far as comics go. You're reading too much into it.
You are looking for ambiguity to deliberately misunderstand.
I'm not looking for ambiguity, nor am I misunderstanding anything. You've been using false equivalencies, trying to make it seem like the examples you've cited have a correlation where there is none. That's all on you. The fact of the matter is we don't know how of all this works on this Cybertron exactly as the comic itself hasn't elaborated on any of this yet (assuming it will at all). Your own insistence it is what you say it is just because you think it must have real world precedent isn't proof unto itself.
User avatar
andersonh1
Moderator
Posts: 6323
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:22 pm
Location: South Carolina

Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Post by andersonh1 »

Issue #2 - the pace of the series is slow, which is fine. I'm not sure everyone is as concerned as they probably should be if Brainstorm's murder really is the first in many, many years. I do like that we get to see some of the beauty of Cybertron as they try to emphasize what kind of idyllic place is being disrupted by the various factions (and we get more named by Bumblebee this time) so we can presumably appreciate what will be lost once the fighting starts.

I wonder if Megatron staged an assassination attempt, or if it was genuine?

I went ahead and put the series on my pull list. If I don't like it, I can always remove it later. So far it's a bit slow and talky, but still enjoyable. Somewhat sedate, much like Cybertron itself in this iteration. It's nice to look forward to a Transformers comic again.
Post Reply