Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Postby Dominic » Mon May 13, 2019 7:34 am

Not really. They don't seem to be monitoring Cyclonus like that. And remember, they are looking for a murderer here, someone who doesn't want to be found.


They specifically mention that they track individuals (like Cyclonus) who produce their own food. (If they know who those individuals are, they have a list.)


My guess is that he gets lumped into the monitoring of the Rise as just one more "off the grid" nutjob, and that stigma is what helps propel him into joining the Decepticons when they form.


Oh, that never happens. There is absolutely not precedent for that in real life.

I'm gonna side with Sparky on this one, I didn't get that they were suspicious of Cyclonus because he was off the grid, they were interested in him as a potential witness to a murder.


They also made clear that they were assuming he knew something. (And, they are pressuring a guy who is clearly crazy, and might not be the best witness.) The fact that they are tracking others who grow their own food shows that Cybertron tracks those who want to be left alone.

Stuff like that is why actual 911 calls are anonymized.
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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Postby Ursus mellifera » Mon May 13, 2019 7:54 am

Dominic wrote:
My guess is that he gets lumped into the monitoring of the Rise as just one more "off the grid" nutjob, and that stigma is what helps propel him into joining the Decepticons when they form.


Oh, that never happens. There is absolutely not precedent for that in real life.


I'm very tired, and I need you to tell me that you're joking. Please. If you've ever loved me.

I'm gonna side with Sparky on this one, I didn't get that they were suspicious of Cyclonus because he was off the grid, they were interested in him as a potential witness to a murder.


They also made clear that they were assuming he knew something. (And, they are pressuring a guy who is clearly crazy, and might not be the best witness.) The fact that they are tracking others who grow their own food shows that Cybertron tracks those who want to be left alone.


I forgot about his proximity to Brainstorm's lab! Also, yes, the Autobots are tracking Cybertronians who grow their own food, and live in the wilderness like hermits, and that does not change the fact that Cyclonus went from being one of those random survivalists to a person of interest once Brainstorm was murdered. It isn't one or the other. It's both.
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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Postby Dominic » Mon May 13, 2019 9:15 am

I'm very tired, and I need you to tell me that you're joking. Please. If you've ever loved me.


I am kidding. Overbearing authority (law enforcement, regulatory, or even zoning) generally creates push-back.



I forgot about his proximity to Brainstorm's lab! Also, yes, the Autobots are tracking Cybertronians who grow their own food, and live in the wilderness like hermits, and that does not change the fact that Cyclonus went from being one of those random survivalists to a person of interest once Brainstorm was murdered. It isn't one or the other. It's both.


Exactly. This sort of thing discourages witnesses. The pushier an authority gets, the less people will want to interact with that authority, even if they might otherwise have chosen to do so.

About 7 years back, i witnessed a shooting. It was a targeted fight between two idiots. But, at the time, there was no way to know that. I called 911, to let the cops know what happened (and by extension, that there was a potentially dangerous gunman about). If I thought that the police would order me to stay in the area, or something similar, I would not have called them in the first place (and would not have given them what information I was able to).

In the comics, Prowl and Chromia keep a list of individuals who do not interact with the state enough (by growing their own food). That indicates constricting degrees of social control, exactly the the thing that Megatron is standing against.
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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Postby Ursus mellifera » Mon May 13, 2019 10:19 am

Dominic wrote:In the comics, Prowl and Chromia keep a list of individuals who do not interact with the state enough (by growing their own food). That indicates constricting degrees of social control, exactly the the thing that Megatron is standing against.


I'm really interested to see how they get to where (we all already know) they're going to end up. Megatron is an imperialist; he is greedy, and he is somewhat of a brute, and at the same time I completely see how he feels like he has no choice but to be that way. Based on Rubble's and Bumblebee's earliest conversations it seems clear that the Autobots' were attempting to create a peaceful life for all Cybertronians by making sure that everybody had all the things they really needed; like the Federation from Star Trek, but with robots. Except the only way for that to function is for everyone to agree on what things actually are really needed, which was never going to happen, so the Autobots have to try and force everyone to agree on the same sets of priorities, which is how we end up with a mostly homogeneous culture where the non-conformists are viewed with fear and disdain even if they're just living in the woods growing crops and talking to ghosts or whatever and not bothering anybody, and Megatron is just standing in the middle like, "I'm so fucking done with people trying to tell me what my priorities are," and he's so pissed about it at this point that he can't help but push back against it with more force than is necessary. I think what I'm trying to say is that Megatron is a jerk, but I understand why, and I feel for him, man. I really do.
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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Postby Dominic » Mon May 13, 2019 11:02 am

Megatron is an imperialist; he is greedy, and he is somewhat of a brute, and at the same time I completely see how he feels like he has no choice but to be that way.


The thing is that we really cannot assume this.

On their first run with the license, IDW redefined Megatron. (5 years ago, Megatron having a degree of redemption or nobility appeared likely to be a new constant for the character.)

The single most damning thing about Megatron is that he is using Quake (described in the current series as being a monster). And, that is arguably a question of Megatron working with who he can (a common problem in politics).

Based on Rubble's and Bumblebee's earliest conversations it seems clear that the Autobots' were attempting to create a peaceful life for all Cybertronians by making sure that everybody had all the things they really needed; like the Federation from Star Trek, but with robots. Except the only way...


Yup.

Even an ostensibly benign scheme relying on compulsory (or even "strongly encouraged") buy in is probably going to fail at some point.

In this case, Megatron and the Ascenticons have decided that they (and Cybrtron) can do better. (This is not inherently evil.) Megatron is not necessarily a jerk, thus far.
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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Postby Sparky Prime » Mon May 13, 2019 11:22 am

Dominic wrote:They specifically mention that they track individuals (like Cyclonus) who produce their own food. (If they know who those individuals are, they have a list.)

They mention in the preview for the next issue that they can look up when someone hasn't been taking their allocations. That's really not the same thing as specifically tracking individuals who produce their own energon though. And based on how surprised Chromia is when Sideswipe reports just how many have fallen off the grid (not to mention they hadn't even finished going through all the records yet), it appears that it isn't something they normally monitor regularly. And, they called in Geomotus to actually help them track down Cyclonus when they wanted to find him. It seems they knew he lived out there, not not exactly where out there.

They also made clear that they were assuming he knew something. (And, they are pressuring a guy who is clearly crazy, and might not be the best witness.) The fact that they are tracking others who grow their own food shows that Cybertron tracks those who want to be left alone.

Because Cyclonus lives somewhere nearby the outpost where Brainstorm was murdered and figure he might have seen something. They don't make it clear they assume he knew something, they just want to know if he saw something. Which he does when confirms he'd seen Brainstorm arrived, but then refuses to tell them them anything else.
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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Postby Ursus mellifera » Mon May 13, 2019 11:30 am

Dominic wrote:In this case, Megatron and the Ascenticons have decided that they (and Cybrtron) can do better. (This is not inherently evil.) Megatron is not necessarily a jerk, thus far.


He's enough of a jerk for me, and it's not his view of the Autobots, or his indifference to violence; it's his attitude of "Cybertronian Exceptionalism." The very first speech we actually see him give is already heavy with undertones of how Cybertron is owed everything it is capable of taking based on divine providence.
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issue 5

Postby Dominic » Wed May 15, 2019 11:41 am

Megatron is not saying "take everything" so much as saying that they can/should have more. (Note that Megatron does not argue for extirpating non-Transformers from Cybertron.)

Cybertron is a planned economy (based on rationing food/fuel despite having large stocks and the means to easily harvest more). The surveillance mentioned above, is likely a function of the planned nature of that economy. But, it also gives the state a means to monitor (if not outright control) citizens.

Transformers
Issue 5:

The big question that everybody has been asking since the first issue is answered. What happens to Rubble?

{SPOILER - Mouse-over to read:}Rubble dies at the hands of Quake.

Despite it being largely predicable/predicted, Rubble's fate works. Rubble was the point-of-view character in a story about order collapsing and losing an innocent view of the world. This was not the only way that it could have ended. But, it is thematically consistent.

Ruckley ends the first arc by blurring the lines between factions. {SPOILER - Mouse-over to read:}Not only is Rubble dead. But, his mentor is meeting with Soundwave. It is possible that Soundwave does not even know what Quake is doing, let alone that he spontaneously killed Rubble.

Soundwave does not trust Bumblebee because the latter has ties to the Autobots (despite Bumblebee neutral and having Ascenticon friends). And, Soundwave suspects that the Autobots were behind the attack in issue 3.


This is the most interesting that Bumblebee has been in *years*.


There are still questions (both plot and premise). But, that is to be expected in any comic. But, Ruckley has earned my faith with this first arc.
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Re: issue 5

Postby Ursus mellifera » Thu May 16, 2019 9:15 am

Dominic wrote:Megatron is not saying "take everything" so much as saying that they can/should have more. (Note that Megatron does not argue for extirpating non-Transformers from Cybertron.)


I was happily surprised this issue to find that Cybertron has an extensive non-Cybertronian population. Megatron has down-graded his douchiness in my eyes.


Dominic wrote:There are still questions (both plot and premise). But, that is to be expected in any comic. But, Ruckley has earned my faith with this first arc.


I, on the other hand, am more concerned than I first was due to {SPOILER - Mouse-over to read:}Rubble's death just being at the hands of a known murderer. It seemed predictable to me, and it causes me to think that I may have given Ruckley too much credit.

But... BUT.... it is the most interesting I've found Bumblebee in a while.
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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Postby Dominic » Thu May 16, 2019 10:08 am

The fact that Quake was previous described as a violent malcontent was foreshadowing the fact that the Ascenticons are going to become violent, possibly counter to Megatron's inclinations. Quake having a track record for being violent also highlights how fragile the "peace" was.

{SPOILER - Mouse-over to read:}Quake killed Rubble because Rubble was there, without any premeditation.

Presumably, Quake killed the hive-monkey thing because it was a witness, or likely witness, to Brainstorm's murder. But, Quake likely did not even know that the Rubble recognized the hive-monkey thing, let alone found the body.


The fact that Ruckley made Bumblebee interesting is enough to maintain his credibility.
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