Universe2.0/Generations Review Thread

[Sparky Prime]

Any new mold meant to homage the 1987 Fort max toy designs & media persona needs to be at least Supreme or titan sized since the 1987 toy was 22 inches tall in robot mode. to be true to the 1987 toys size scale,Anything smaller would be majorly 1987 toy inaccurate. Even though supreme size is smaller than titan,at the very least it's big enough to be considered beyond huge.

But that's the thing, IDW Fort Max isn't the 1987 toy. He's a different version of the character. A homage doesn't mean it replicates a previous version of the character to the degree you're suggesting here. If they base a figure on a version of a character, it needs to remain true to that version, not to some other version of the character. To do otherwise would be inaccurate to the version of the character it's supposed to be. And the IDW version of Fort Max isn't a city bot, he's only a bit larger than the majority of Transformers, thus the scale would need to be adjusted accordingly.

To the point... It doesn't matter what the scale of the G1 toys were. The IDW versions of the characters aren't all to the same scale because they are somewhat different versions of the characters.

I'm not a Fan of the story telling,art designs & radical character persona re-writes that IDW does with some of the TF characters in their TF G-1 comics titles/issues. ----> If Hasbro/Takara is going to make any homage toys for the G-1 characters in the Classics-Generations toy lines,then I'd prefer they be based off the 1980's toys/cartoon designs/persona's.

I get you're a huge original universe G1 fan. But the thing to remember is IDW's universe isn't that universe. Their versions of the characters are a bit different so any homages they make based on the IDW versions aren't necessarily going to sync up.

[Tigermegatron]

Any new mold meant to homage the 1987 Fort max toy designs & media persona needs to be at least Supreme or titan sized since the 1987 toy was 22 inches tall in robot mode. to be true to the 1987 toys size scale,Anything smaller would be majorly 1987 toy inaccurate. Even though supreme size is smaller than titan,at the very least it's big enough to be considered beyond huge.

But that's the thing, IDW Fort Max isn't the 1987 toy. He's a different version of the character. A homage doesn't mean it replicates a previous version of the character to the degree you're suggesting here. If they base a figure on a version of a character, it needs to remain true to that version, not to some other version of the character. To do otherwise would be inaccurate to the version of the character it's supposed to be. And the IDW version of Fort Max isn't a city bot, he's only a bit larger than the majority of Transformers, thus the scale would need to be adjusted accordingly.

To the point... It doesn't matter what the scale of the G1 toys were. The IDW versions of the characters aren't all to the same scale because they are somewhat different versions of the characters.

I'm not a Fan of the story telling,art designs & radical character persona re-writes that IDW does with some of the TF characters in their TF G-1 comics titles/issues. ----> If Hasbro/Takara is going to make any homage toys for the G-1 characters in the Classics-Generations toy lines,then I'd prefer they be based off the 1980's toys/cartoon designs/persona's.

I get you're a huge original universe G1 fan. But the thing to remember is IDW's universe isn't that universe. Their versions of the characters are a bit different so any homages they make based on the IDW versions aren't necessarily going to sync up.

The Majority of on-line/off-line TF fans would rather Hasbro/Takara created a Titan sized 1987 Fortress Maximus toy Similar to Titan Metroplex. or at the very least settle for a Supreme size newer toy that homage the 1987 fort max toy/cartoon designs/persona.

Hasbro/Takara isn't going to cater to the Minority of On-line TF fans by creating a IDW version of Fort max in the leader size or supreme size level. Because more than 90% of the Worldwide TF fans/kids/parents/casual buyers are NOT buying the IDW TF comics,With sales so low,the IDW TF comics might as well be invisible because hardly anyone is buying them.

Hasbro/takara will NEVER,EVER,Create a new mold Fort max toy for generations that doesn't Transform into a city/base mode because it's a bad idea that the majority will hate. Creating the bigger scaled TF toys takes years,more money,more talent & more engineeering involved,Might as well just give the majority what they want,"Which is a Titan sized 1987 Styled/designed Fort Max toy with a city/base mode." ---> Not a 8 inch Ultra or leader sized IDW Fort max toy that Transforms into a tank alt mode with no city mode,no headmasters & no 1987 Homage weapons/accessories.

Just because Hasbro created a few new molds TF toys in the IDW TF comics designs/persona's,does not mean the Generations TF toy lines will now turn into a 100% IDW TF comics toys designs fiesta. Hasbro/Takara knows where their bread & butter profits arise from,Fans/buyers want 1980's designed homage new mold TF toys,Not some IDW TF different universe TF toys designs.

The sheer fact Hasbro included some IDW TF comics with some IDW Designed TF toys means HASBRO KNOWS 90%+ OF IT'S TF TOY BUYERS ARE NOT BUYING THE IDW TF COMICS. ----> In short words,the comics were included to help buyers figure out where these designs came from.

Kids who never read/bought the IDW TF comics WIL NOT start buying the IDW TF comics based off them reading a few issues that got included with a few IDW Styled Generations TF toys. IDW nor Hasbro isn't expecting a huge spike in IDW TF comics sales from kids/buyers who bought the IDW TF styled toys with the comic included. Most kids don't buy comics these days,The majority of comic sales come from adult men.

The main reason why the IDW styled TF toys are only deluxe size & not Voyager size scale,is because they didn't deserve the voyager,due to them being advertised in a IDW TF comics that 90% of it's TF toy buying base does not read. Hasbro saves the bigger size scaled TF toys like voyagers,ultra's & leaders for the best characters they know will sell better from it's toy buying base.

[Shockwave]

The sheer fact Hasbro included some IDW TF comics with some IDW Designed TF toys means HASBRO KNOWS 90%+ OF IT'S TF TOY BUYERS ARE NOT BUYING THE IDW TF COMICS. ----> In short words,the comics were included to help buyers figure out where these designs came from.

Then why would they bother with the resources to begin with if it's such a waste and an obvious money loser?

Look, we get it: you wish you could go back to 1987 and you don't care about the toys looking like the fiction. You have to realize that you're in the minority on that.

[Sparky Prime]

With sales so low,the IDW TF comics might as well be invisible because hardly anyone is buying them.

You keep saying this but it's simply not true. If sales were actually that bad, do you think they'd still be publishing them?

Hasbro/takara will NEVER,EVER,Create a new mold Fort max toy for generations that doesn't Transform into a city/base mode because it's a bad idea that the majority will hate.

I wouldn't be so sure on that. If it's a good figure, the majority of fans might not care. They made a Metroplex figure in Cybertron that was an excavator instead of of a city/base, and it seemed to be fairly well received.

Just because Hasbro created a few new molds TF toys in the IDW TF comics designs/persona's,does not mean the Generations TF toy lines will now turn into a 100% IDW TF comics toys designs fiesta. Hasbro/Takara knows where their bread & butter profits arise from,Fans/buyers want 1980's designed homage new mold TF toys,Not some IDW TF different universe TF toys designs.

No one is saying they should turn to 100% IDW designs. But a lot of fans do seem to be excited for a lot of the upcoming IDW inspired figures. And a homage simply refers to paying respects to something, it doesn't mean they replicate the previous versions. Like Cybertron Hot Shot being a homage to G1 Hot Rod in some respects. An IDW version of Fort Max could homage the original, even if he wasn't a city-bot. And it's toys that sell that is their bread & butter, regardless of what fictional universe they come from. It's not strictly new molds of 1980's figures fans and buyers want at all.

The sheer fact Hasbro included some IDW TF comics with some IDW Designed TF toys means HASBRO KNOWS 90%+ OF IT'S TF TOY BUYERS ARE NOT BUYING THE IDW TF COMICS. ----> In short words,the comics were included to help buyers figure out where these designs came from.

Hasbro prints where to find the cartoons on the packaging. Does that mean no one watches it? No, it's just a means to promote it. Including the comic with the toys doesn't mean no one is buying the comics.

The main reason why the IDW styled TF toys are only deluxe size & not Voyager size scale,is because they didn't deserve the voyager,due to them being advertised in a IDW TF comics that 90% of it's TF toy buying base does not read. Hasbro saves the bigger size scaled TF toys like voyagers,ultra's & leaders for the best characters they know will sell better from it's toy buying base.

Again, untrue. Springer was based on Nick Roche's designs from the IDW comics and that's a Voyager class figure. Granted, it is a lot closer to the G1 version than other figures, but still.

[andersonh1]

Megatron/Chop Shop

$10 for a slightly larger Legends class figure and a glorified accessory as a second figure is probably a little expensive. That being said, this is a good set.

Megatron - based on the miner we saw in Megatron Origins, with the yellow hazard stripes on the helmet. The mix of cool and warm greys works reasonably well, even if the figure doesn't really scream "I'm a young G1 Megatron" as a result. Transformation involves the arms and torso becoming the tank turret (the tank gun barrel is attached to the arm permanently, but rotates), while the legs unfold on the sides of the feet and form a sort of "envelope" that creates the bottom of the tank. The wheels have a decent amount of clearance, plenty for a figure this small to be able to roll. The turret rotates 360 degrees. Articulation is pretty good for a figure this size. It's a great little design.

Chop Shop - a targetmaster version of the G1 deluxe Insecticon. Lay him on his belly, he's a beetle. Stand him up, he's a robot. That's all there is to it. The arms rotate at the shoulders, and he can do leg splits (which also widen the beetle jaws), but otherwise there's no articulation. Still, he's smaller than the typical mini-con, and essentially an accessory rather than a full figure, so it's not a big deal. The targetmaster gun handle folds out from the middle of his chest. The tech specs mention his kleptomania, so bonus points for that.

[Shockwave]

Metroplex: This thing is HUGE. It's actually bigger than Fortress Maximus in robot mode I think (I don't have Fort Max to compare it to, but it feels bigger). the city mode is bigger at the very least. The robot mode certainly has a lot more articulation than the original and can take a lot of poses. He can even take a pose very close to the one on the box (which is usually my articulation test). One interesting feature is light up eyes, and you can even move the eyes so that he's looking in different directions. My only complaint there is that the lights blink rather than stay lit for a time after the button is pressed. Metroplex is billed as being in scale to legends class figures, but I've found that he can hold standard deluxe size Autobots as well. Bluestreak was able to fit in his chest compartment with no problem. Having said that, there are also several features that are sized for legends figures. The right arm opens out to a cannon with a place for a legends figure to stand to operated it, there is also a gun on the left shoulder that reveals a place for a figure to fire that one and there is also a console type area on the helipad. At first, it's a little vexing to why there is a helipad on his left arm, but it actually functions as the helipad in "vehicle" mode. I have yet to actually convert it to it's rolling aircraft carrier mode but having gone from city to robot I can say that there's a lot going on here. The "cockpit" or command center or whatever you wanna call it functions as the button that activates the lights and sounds. And there's a lot of sounds. It alternates between phrases and sounds, some that sound like mechanical sounds, some like battle. Phrases include "Metroplex heeds the call of the last Prime!" and "Decepticon elimination initiated" as well as about 8 others. There are just under 100 stickers to put on Metroplex. When I heard that there would be some, I was unconcerned, but now that I have one, I can't help thinking that some of this, a lot of this actually, could have been tampo'd. Especially the Autobot logo on the chest. My only gripe with this is that while I was applying the stickers for the command center, one of fell into his chest. The only way to retrieve was to remove the back and get it out from the inside. Fortunately, that wasn't that complex of a process and I had retrieved it within a few minutes. Other than that, the stickers don't bother me. Most of them actually do fit the locations where they go which has kind of been hit and miss over the years.

TL;DR: Metroplex is Huge, with a lot of fun features and details and I think well worth the price of $80 that he was at Costco. Heck, I'd even go so far as to say that he'd be worth full retail. It's reall that fun and works as a great way to display your figures. Even if you don't like the stickers, then just don't put them on, the only thing missing without them is his Autobot logo but all of the functionality is still there.

Generations Legends:

Megatron/Chop Shop: this is one of the best of the four that came out. Anderson covered a lot in his review, particularly about Chop Shop, so I'll just expound on Megatron: The design is based on his appearance in "Megatron: Origin". He looks good and has decent articulation in robot mode and the tank mode looks pretty decent in spite of the simple transformation. Getting both figures for $10 certainly seemed worth the price.

Optimus/Roller: Apparently Roller is his own character now, rather than a drone like in G1. I'm perfectly ok with this. Optimus is based on his IDW appearance during the ongoing. Particularly the cover with Menasor. Again, like Megatron, good articulation and detail and both modes function well. Roller provides an added accessory in addition to Prime's signature rifle. There's not much to Roller, his arms are the only things that move but given that he's an accessory first and a figure second it's forgivable. Again, definitely worth the $10.

Starscream/Waspinator: Starscream is the only one of these that really gave me a problem. I like the design, particularly in robot mode but the transformation to jet mode feels... lazy for lack of a better word. I really feel like the arms should go somewhere other than just sit there. They don't detract too much from the vehicle mode, but they do a little. Waspinator is at least on par with Chop Shop and is again good for what he is and the size.

Bumblebee/Blazemaster(?): Bumblebee is loosely based off his WFC/FOC character model, that is, the robot mode is. The vehicle seems to be based on Animated. The only compaint I have with this one is the feet in robot mode. They flip up to become the underside of the car in vehicle mode and if loose, can make Bee fall over pretty easily. Other than that, he's pretty decent. Blazemaster is... reminiscent of Armada Hot Shot's minicon (who might have been named Blazemaster as well for all I know). He's about as articulated as Roller and is the only gun bumble bee comes with. I can't help feeling that if Bee came with another smaller gun like Prime did, he'd be more functional as he can't stand while holding Blazemaster because of the feet thing. If there's one of these you need to skip on, this is the one. I'm not sorry I bought it, but I may wind up getting rid of it since I have better versions of Bumblebee already in this scale, I certainly don't need two.

[JediTricks]

Super shorties, I intended to put more time into these but ran out.

Legends Optimus w/ Roller - Not a great set, Optimus is pretty chintzy in both modes, the robot has the chest/shoulders not locked down and it harms things. Roller is fun but painfully simple.

Dlx Armada Starscream - deco and sculpt could be a smidge better at this price. Some nice touches, pretty good Armada homage, swords aren't much to write home about and wings get in the way of shoulders. Overall, recommend, has enough going on even without the homage to grow on you.

Dlx Minicon trio Centuritron - set has charms, but also is not a particularly good toy. Finicky and spindly, monotone and simplistic, but there are 3 bots that combine better than previous Minicons (they're larger for it) and despite kibble and a face for a hiney, Centuritron gets away with it. Doesn't quite feel finished. Some will like it, some will not.

[Dominic]

I went back to Target and grabbed Scoop the other day. Short review.

Scoop: robot/bulldozer

"Generations" Scoop is probably the most direct update of a G1 figure (note, "figure" not "character") since "Universe" Cyclonus. Despite being cast from an all-new sculpt, Scoop is clearly drawn from original control art and the G1 figure (released 25+ years ago). Scoop is not an old character given an updated character model so much as a new toy based on an old character model. The moulded details on the new figure were stickers on the old figure. The best way to think of Scoop is to compare this figure to a Luke Skywalker figure released in the last 15 years as compared to a Luke Skywalker figure released in the 1980s.

Scoop is fairly simple. The transformation has a few flourishes that seem intended to keep Scoop from being too simple. (The way the chest turns in to the front of the dozer actually detracts from the alternate mode. Part of me wonders if a more simple design may not have been better.) Over-all, Scoop is comparable to a figure from a bit more than a decade ago, albeit one that has aged fairly well.

There is more moulded detail than paint. And, many of the details (such as the teeth on the shovel) demand to be painted by customizers. (I might get an extra Scoop and do this.)

The Targetmaster figures, Holepunch and Tracer/Caliburst (renamed for trademark reasons), are..... Well, they are a vast improvement over the originals. Of course, the originals were released 25+ years ago and were lousy toys even by the standards of a quarter-century past. As with Scoop, current Holepunch and Caliburst evoke toys from about a decade ago. Unfortunately, they evoke a lower grade of toy. A decade ago, Holepunch and Caliburst would have been on the low side of acceptable. The main flaw is that the handles for their gun modes are lodged between their feet. While this is a huge step up from "handle jutting out of the chest" (as was the case for the originals), it looks terrible. It is possible to remove the handle pieces. But, "transform by dis-assembly" is hardly anything to be praised, especially when it is a fan-fix applied to a design flaw that should have been rectified several steps before wax/resin proto-typing.

For those wondering, Holepunch and Caliburst/Tracer are referred to as "Targetmasters", rather than as "Minicons" or "Nebulans" on the packaging and in ad-copy.


Scoop and the Targetmasters are an odd choice for a line like "Generations". Really has not done much of anything anywhere before being used in IDW's "Robots in Disguise" comics. (And, those appearances were almost certainly mandated by Hasbro.) Before that, Scoops' most important moment was being present for the "Invasion" depicted in the BotCon 2012 comic (which may have been Hasbro mandated). (And, one might argue that Scoop's off-hand attitude contributed to the outcome of that battle and the destruction of a universe. But, that is a topic for another thread in another sub-forum.)

I actually checked the wiki, to double check Scoops' significance in TF. And, uh, there is not much. He showed up as a minor character early in Furman's run. (I am not even sure if his guns are depicted as Targetmasters or as normal weapons.) He had one or two more similar appearances in the UK comics. And, he did not do much more in Japan. A significant part of Scoop's media presence consists of animation used in a commercial that ended up getting recycled for a filler sequence in the "Generation 2" cartoon.

I would guess that the only reason Scoop got made is that somebody at Hasbro, for some reason, likes Scoop.


Grade: B/C


All told, I like Scoop. As a toy, Scoop is a competent (if simple) effort. The Targetmasters are a loss. But, they form a passable rifle. Scoop has the distinction of probably being the only old character to get a new toy who is less important that Windcharger. (Windcharger did more than Scoop, albeit not by much. And, that is with the advantage of appearing on the cartoon.)

But, despite all that, I like Scoop. The simple design has a certain appeal. And, while I cannot fathom why anybody would specifically want Scoop, I can see the appeal of a figure that can appropriately stand in for either the original or modern iteration of a character. (As much as I like '08 "Universe" Sunstreaker, it is not a good representation of G1 Sunstreaker. Similarly, I really like '06 Mirage. But, it is not a good representation of the character from any episode/issue where Mirage did anything important.)

[JediTricks]

Nothing about that review sounded like I'd enjoy Scoop.


Picked up Whirl from TRU Culver City, hours after an order from HTS that won't ship until the end of the month. I'm considering taking that one and returning the one I got when it gets here, as there's some scratches on the right shoulder on mine.

Very good figure, one of the best callbacks to G1. I haven't put on the stickers yet, I hate stickers, but he definitely will look sharper with them (although he doesn't need them, except the Autobot logo, as his paint is adequate). There are a lot of things the instructions leave out, like the shoulders telescoping in for stability and a narrower look, the neck telescoping up for a more comic book look, the antenna rotating forward to cover the lightpipe, the null ray module fitting over the wrist-stumps, the rotor module rotating in bot mode, the cockpit opening. It's an interesting transformation, a little complicated in spots but satisfying; if the digitigrade upper knee joints weren't so horrendous, I'd use them since they look more like the IDW character; and the tail rotor joint is the single most difficult transformation joint. The shoulder stalks are packed upside-down, just rotate them for more range of motion.

Whirl's bot mode is lean and taller than expected using straight legs, definitely works as a voyager rather than feeling like an upscaled deluxe, and the height gives him intimidation factor. It's not as alien as the G1 figure because that one was very lanky while this is more proportional, but it still is striking with the mono-eye head and big claws. There is a little bit of gap from the side, but it's not too bad.

The gerwalk mode "heloped" is clever and likable, the shoulders sag in this mode from using the telescoped-out joint stop, but it's still better than nothing. Moving the tail under the body definitely gives me hope that someone still cares.

Vehicle mode is nice, the paint is a bit underwhelming in the twin intakes since it cuts off early, but overall it's a good representation of the AH-1 Cobra knockoff used in the G1 line. The only really questionable thing is why the chin gun weapon hangs so much lower than the skids.

Overall, this is a big winner, and definitely unvincible!

[JediTricks]

Swerve and Flanker.

Flanker is a drone jet, and it doesn't really translate that well, especially with the bio missing the drone portion. Robot mode is essentially "stand up, you're a robot", but apparently it's an homage to a G1 figure. It looks good enough on its own, the arms move at the shoulders. Weapon mode is not too bad and has a real tranformation move involved which is almost clever.

Swerve is 90% of everything he needs to be. He's got an open-mouthed smirk smile on his face, the head tilts up and down but doesn't rotate. There's no waist articulation. His stubby arms have ball-jointed shoulders and elbows, so he can be posed fairly well. The whole thing has a larger-than-life feel to it in spite of some limitations.

Vehicle mode delivers, and transformation has a bit of cleverness for a little guy, but I wonder if some folks might find it frustrating since it doesn't lock together until the final move.

Pretty good, I'd recommend, probably a 7.5/10 or higher, definitely a "B" grade.



Cosmos and Payload.

Payload is a shuttle, and while the back of the shuttle is a bit gappy and there are arms just right there on the sides, it still holds up nicely. Robot mode is also SUYAR and another homage to G1. Weapon mode also uses one clever move, and it's not entirely obvious because the instructions are backwards here, transforming weapon to robot, but the majority of the legs slide upward to reveal gun barrels.

Cosmos is a total pimp, awesome awesome. Good articulation, good range, better than Swerve, looks spot on, some good and fun detailing, clever transformation, fully sticks the landing.

There's no 5mm holes in vehicle mode though, the connection with Payload is to dock the shuttle onto the front laser cannons, very odd.

Nailed it, top marks.