Are the newer 2012/2013 TF toys superior to previous years?

[JediTricks]

I noticed this with the Avengers and GI Joe lines a little bit--figures are starting to vary a lot more in terms of quality on a figure-to-figure basis. I mean, with TF, it's always kind of been like that, because each one is usually so different, but like...even more so. It seems like Hasbro "knows" they can cheap out on certain figures because of what they are, and they assume that collectors--the people who would actually notice these drops in quality--so they concentrate on other toys.

Your Smokescreen example reminded me of that. Smokescreen is, for all intents and purposes, a more desirable figure than, say, BH Bumblebee or Wheeljack is, because he's a unique new character, he's a show character, and so on. Hasbro knows they can cheap out on Bumblebees because collectors don't care as much. It's the same reason they could release a Roadblock last year with a gimmick thing moulded to his hand, and missing ankle articulation and double-jointed knees--because fans were probably gonna skip him anyway and get the movie-accurate Wave 2 Roadblock. (Of course, now that the delay happened, there's an even better Roadblock coming in Wave 3, so...)

It's not that they're trying to game the market, it's that they're suffering budgetary constraints while trying to balance quality against play-worthiness and appeal. They want every figure to be its best, but they also have to do so on a set budget so compromises have to be made, they make a compromise we don't like and if it hurts sales they learn from this and try to not make the same mistakes again. So where Bumblebee didn't sell well last year, they make sure the budget balance ensures that Smokescreen will be a better figure to avoid the mistakes. It's give and take, and if the market doesn't show that it cares about missing articulation then Hasbro doesn't correct that choice.

[Onslaught Six]

Well, that and I think the size classes have gone through some weird growing pains. The GI Joes missing articulation has been all but eradicated now.

[Tigermegatron]

2012 toys are not superior to 2011 toys, which themselves are not superior to 2010 toys. I'd say probably 2009/2010 toys were the pinnacle of the brand and it's been on a downhill slide since, but is now starting to show signs of finding its new levels. TFPBH Smokescreen is very good. Generations Soundwave and ilk are good. The upcoming Generations product looks very promising, as does TFPBH Shockwave. But I'm certainly not ready to say 2013 is better than 2010.

I think the brand was getting better and better coming off of Energon, after Energon it started to get better and better, then the movie hit and the design kicked up a notch which left Alternators feeling a little simple and brittle, and I think design hit its pinnacle in the 2009 era with both ROTF and Animated. Classics' first wave feels quaint by today's standards too.

Jedi,Are you a fan of the 2009 Animated TF toy line?

Personally,I felt the 2009 TF animated toys were pure garbage & wastes of fine plastic. . The Animated toys had so many budget cuts & cut corners in them like Simplified sculpts+engineering. The sculpts were so bad I refer to them as "highly stylized play-school go-bots TF toys." I didn't like the overly simplified robot heads as they either had smiley faces or frowns. The toys were too mis-proportioned in the body parts & limbs. Hasbro was trying to go for the super hero design with these animated toys by having skinny legs with bulky chest & partial 50% bulky arms. CLEARLY these 2009 Animated toys were aimed at a slightly lower kids age group than previous TF toys lines years. The factory applied colors/paint was another budget cutting corners thing by hasbro as most animated toys had extremly dull colored plastic/paint on them.

The 2009 Animated TF toys I felt were inferior to previous TF toy lines that had cartoons/movies like AEC,2001 Rid & the movie-verse.

[Sparky Prime]

CLEARLY these 2009 Animated toys were aimed at a slightly lower kids age group than previous TF toys lines years.

Animated was not aimed for kids younger than any other mainline Transformers toy line has been. Yes, the Animated figures designs was a bit more superhero-esk, and simplified looking, but that was to match the art style used for the cartoon. It doesn't mean they cut corners any more than they usually do for any other TF line, or that they had simplified engineering. Now don't get me wrong, I wasn't a big fan of the Animated art style myself which is why I skipped the toys, but I have had the opportunity to transform a few of them back and forth. They really aren't as bad as you make them out to be. I'd really say they are on par with most other Transformers figures.

[Tigermegatron]

CLEARLY these 2009 Animated toys were aimed at a slightly lower kids age group than previous TF toys lines years.

Animated was not aimed for kids younger than any other mainline Transformers toy line has been. Yes, the Animated figures designs was a bit more superhero-esk, and simplified looking, but that was to match the art style used for the cartoon. It doesn't mean they cut corners any more than they usually do for any other TF line, or that they had simplified engineering. Now don't get me wrong, I wasn't a big fan of the Animated art style myself which is why I skipped the toys, but I have had the opportunity to transform a few of them back and forth. They really aren't as bad as you make them out to be. I'd really say they are on par with most other Transformers figures.

I'm a mild level kitbasher,I often take apart TF toys from every TF toy line to either swap parts between recolors or to kitbash parts. When I took apart a few 2009 Animated toys,I noticed they were almost hollow inside,void of pressured springs,gears,slots,etc...
The Animated toys had less parts inside & out,taking them apart & putting them back together was a breeze & far easier than taking apart & putting back together 2001 Rid,AEC & Movie-verse toys.

When I took apart a few 2001 Rid,AEC & Movie-verse TF toys,those toys were not hollow inside,They were loaded/stuffed with pressure springs,gears,slots,etc.. It was far harder trying to figure out where all the parts went when putting back together these 2001 Rid,AEC & Movie-verse TF toys. SO CLEARLY THE 2009 ANIMATED TF TOYS WERE OVERLY SIMPLIFIED INSIDE/OUT & CUT CORNERS.

[Sparky Prime]

When I took apart a few 2001 Rid,AEC & Movie-verse TF toys,those toys were not hollow inside,They were loaded/stuffed with pressure springs,gears,slots,etc.. It was far harder trying to figure out where all the parts went when putting back together these 2001 Rid,AEC & Movie-verse TF toys. SO CLEARLY THE 2009 ANIMATED TF TOYS WERE OVERLY SIMPLIFIED INSIDE/OUT & CUT CORNERS.

You're talking about toys lines that were heavy on the use of some gimmick and needed those internal parts for those gimmicks to work. Like Cybertron had the Planet Key activated stuff. Energon had the powerlinking for the Autobots while Decepticons had additional weapons and stuff. Armada had the mini-cons activated gimmick. ROTF figures had an 'Automorphing' gimmick so that part of their transformation would work automatically. And so on... The difference here is that Animated was the first line in a long time that didn't make use of some line wide gimmick. That doesn't make those toys 'overly simplified' just because they didn't do a gimmick that needed parts inside them or that they cut corners. I mean, would you say the same thing about the Beast Wars figures? Or Classics/Generations? Lot of those figures have hollow parts too.

[Tigermegatron]

When I took apart a few 2001 Rid,AEC & Movie-verse TF toys,those toys were not hollow inside,They were loaded/stuffed with pressure springs,gears,slots,etc.. It was far harder trying to figure out where all the parts went when putting back together these 2001 Rid,AEC & Movie-verse TF toys. SO CLEARLY THE 2009 ANIMATED TF TOYS WERE OVERLY SIMPLIFIED INSIDE/OUT & CUT CORNERS.

You're talking about toys lines that were heavy on the use of some gimmick and needed those internal parts for those gimmicks to work. Like Cybertron had the Planet Key activated stuff. Energon had the powerlinking for the Autobots while Decepticons had additional weapons and stuff. Armada had the mini-cons activated gimmick. ROTF figures had an 'Automorphing' gimmick so that part of their transformation would work automatically. And so on... The difference here is that Animated was the first line in a long time that didn't make use of some line wide gimmick. That doesn't make those toys 'overly simplified' just because they didn't do a gimmick that needed parts inside them or that they cut corners. I mean, would you say the same thing about the Beast Wars figures? Or Classics/Generations? Lot of those figures have hollow parts because they don't have any internalized gimmicks.

Clearly you've never taken apart TF toys,Because Pressured springs,Gears,slots,tabs,etc.. are not used just for activated gimmicks. Hasbro used some of those Pressured Springs,gears,slots,tabs to make the 2001 Rid/AEC/Movie-verse joints more stiff & too make the toys less loose/floppy in the joints. The main reason most 2009 Animated TF toys are loose/floppy in the joints/parts is because their hollow inside & lack the pressured springs,gears,slots,tabs,etc,to make the joints/parts more tight.

[Sparky Prime]

Clearly you've never taken apart TF toys,Because Pressured springs,Gears,slots,tabs,etc.. are not used just for activated gimmicks. Hasbro used some of those Pressured Springs,gears,slots,tabs to make the 2001 Rid/AEC/Movie-verse joints more stiff & too make the toys less loose/floppy in the joints. The main reason most 2009 Animated TF toys are loose/floppy in the joints/parts is because their hollow inside & lack the pressured springs,gears,slots,tabs,etc,to make the joints/parts more tight.

Actually, I have taken apart a few of the Transformers figures that I own. Take Excellion (a repaint of Hot Shot) for an example, from the Cybertron toy line. The only part of him that has any parts like what you're describing is the tail wings that pop out when activated by the planet key gimmick. His chest and legs however are hollow and his joints are either ball joints or simply hinges, just like the Animated figures, and most other Transformers figures. Very few actually have parts in their joints like that, so the Animated figures are hardly the only ones prone to having loose joints.

[Tigermegatron]

Clearly you've never taken apart TF toys,Because Pressured springs,Gears,slots,tabs,etc.. are not used just for activated gimmicks. Hasbro used some of those Pressured Springs,gears,slots,tabs to make the 2001 Rid/AEC/Movie-verse joints more stiff & too make the toys less loose/floppy in the joints. The main reason most 2009 Animated TF toys are loose/floppy in the joints/parts is because their hollow inside & lack the pressured springs,gears,slots,tabs,etc,to make the joints/parts more tight.

Actually, I have taken apart a few of the Transformers figures that I own. Take Excellion (a repaint of Hot Shot) for an example, from the Cybertron toy line. The only part of him that has any parts like what you're describing is the tail wings that pop out when activated by the planet key gimmick. His chest and legs however are hollow and his joints are either ball joints or simply hinges, just like the Animated figures, and most other Transformers figures. Very few actually have parts in their joints like that, so the Animated figures are hardly the only ones prone to having loose joints.

I'm not going to waste any more time in this debate with you,especially when your going the extra mile by saying your right & i'm WRONG.

In closing,Please take apart more TF toys from 2001 RID (13 new molds),AEC & Movie-verse,Their you will find plenty of TF toys that use pressured springs,gears,ratchets,slots,tabs,etc,on the joints to make all the joints more tighter/stiff/sturdy.

Sparky,You've admitted in this thread to skipping/not buying any of the 2009 Animated toy. You need to play with the toys to fully understand what their like.

I,On the other hand did buy all the 2009 TF Animated toys,Played with them & displayed them on shelves. After a year or two, I gave 90% of these Animated toys away to younger relatives because I didn't want them anymore.

[Sparky Prime]

I'm not going to waste any more time in this debate with you,especially when your going the extra mile by saying your right & i'm WRONG.

How am I going an extra mile? By providing some examples to support my argument? Clearly you're not a fan of the Animated figures, and I'm not either, but your arguments are based on generalizations. All I'm doing is pointing out the Animated figures really aren't all that different from any other main Transformers toy line. The only real difference for Animated (besides being less gimmicky as other recent lines had been) is the design style used for the series, giving it a much more cartoony look.

In closing,Please take apart more TF toys from 2001 RID (13 new molds),AEC & Movie-verse,Their you will find plenty of TF toys that use pressured springs,gears,ratchets,slots,tabs,etc,on the joints to make all the joints more tighter/stiff/sturdy.

What would taking apart even more figures prove? A ball joint isn't going to have any other parts to it no matter what figure it is. And most hinges on the figures don't either. Granted, there are some, but it's by far not the majority. Most internal parts like that is going to be part of a gimmick.

Sparky,You've admitted in this thread to skipping/not buying any of the 2009 Animated toy. You need to play with the toys to fully understand what their like.

I had also said in that same post I have had the opportunity to play with some of the Animated figures, despite skipping them for myself. I know some people that own them. They really weren't bad figures. I just wasn't a fan of the design style of the series.