Are the newer 2012/2013 TF toys superior to previous years?

[Tigermegatron]

I see those threads/Replies on various TF forums sites from those groups of TF fans who think all the newer TF toys are superior to the older TF toys. GRANTED I CAN UNDERSTAND IF WERE COMPARING TF TOYS FROM 2012 TO ONES CREATED 20 YEARS AGO. But to compare 2012 TF toys to 2003,2004,2005,2006,2007,2008,2009,2010,2011,2012,2013 & Onwards TF toys makes no sense DUE TO HASBRO MAKING ALL THESE DRASTIC CUT BACKS DUE TO THE ECONOMY LIKE CHEAPER PLASTIC,SMALLER TOYS IN THEIR SIZES,LESS GIMMICKS,Less bang for your buck as TF toys now cost 50% more than they did Three years ago,ETC...

I noticed here,That Jedi,was complaining about the 2012 TFP toys being too short,thin,light & less bulky in their size levels & I think he didn't like the sculpts. So clearly Jedi doesn't think the 2012 TFP toy line was more superior than previous years worth of TF toys lines.

Personally I think AEC was the golden ages of the TF toy lines years. I hated 90% of the 2008 Animated toys,Didn't like 70% of the movie-verse TF toys. only thought 20% of the 2012 TF toys were decent. So I didn't think the 2007 thru 2012 TF toys were vastly superior in every way compared to previous years worth of TF toys like AEC,2001 Rid,BW,etc...

I'm curious to see everyone's elses view on this matter.

[Onslaught Six]

Honestly, I can't really speak for the last year or so, but the majority of the Classics/Universe toys have been vastly superior to a lot of what came before it. Cybertron was good, Energon was half great and half shit, and Armada was almost all shit. (I seriously got ahold of a lot of my old Armada toys and I can't even be bothered to put them on eBay.)

[Tigermegatron]

Honestly, I can't really speak for the last year or so,

But that's the whole point of this thread since their are large groups of on-line TF fans out their saying anything recently new surpasses previous years worth of TF toys lines. TF Prime 2012 & 2012 FOC are recently new TF toys,Surely you have a opinion on TFP & FOC toys,Whether you think their inferior or superior to previous years worth of TF toys lines. Even if you don't own any,you've seen high resolution pics on-line,enough to like or hate the designs.

but the majority of the Classics/Universe toys have been vastly superior to a lot of what came before it. Cybertron was good, Energon was half great and half shit, and Armada was almost all shit. (I seriously got ahold of a lot of my old Armada toys and I can't even be bothered to put them on eBay.)

Yeah But what about the other TF toy lines that came out from 2006 thru 2013. Like all the Movie-verse toys,2008 Animated toys,PCC combiners,Do you think any of these are more superior than the 2001 Rid toys or the AEC toys?

Do you think the Alternity which is more newer is more superior than Alternators/BT toys?

How does the 2008 Animated & TF Prime newer toy lines compare to the older AEC & 2001 RID toy lines?

[Onslaught Six]

I hated Alternators, so comparing anything to them is moot.

[Shockwave]

Why did you hate Alternators? I loved that line. But then again, I am kinda the resident Geewunner.

Having said that, I'm apparently getting Beast Hunters Shockwave and Henkei Rodimus for my Birthday in a couple of weeks so I'll compare them then and post thoughts here.

On a basic fundamental level it would make sense for toys now to be better than toys past (regardless of how past) since technology develops and advances it would make sense that the quality would too. However, where this breaks down is, like TM said, because of the economy and the cutbacks. Things like cheaper materials and missing/cancelled gimmicks can wind up devolving whatever tech advances might be there.

[Tigermegatron]

However, where this breaks down is, like TM said, because of the economy and the cutbacks. Things like cheaper materials and missing/cancelled gimmicks can wind up devolving whatever tech advances might be there.

Exactly the point behind this thread.

Examples:

1- The Armada toys were stuffed with Gimmicks yet most fans viewed them as inferior toys,Due to them having Less poseable articulated joints than CR/RID 2000/2001 TF toys. Aaron Archer the lead TF Hasbro toy designer traded poseabilty for extreme gimmicks & this back fired badly.

2- 2008/2009 Animated TF toys were inferior toys compared to AEC & Movie-verse toys. Due to all the cut backs & the lower spending toy line budget. The Animated toys were almost void of Gimmicks & overly simplified in transfotmations,sculpt & details.

[andersonh1]

Why did you hate Alternators? I loved that line. But then again, I am kinda the resident Geewunner.

Seconded. I loved Alternators. And G1 is still my sentimental favorite line. Most of the (admittedly small) number of figures I still buy these days are new versions of G1 characters.

1- The Armada toys were stuffed with Gimmicks yet most fans viewed them as inferior toys,Due to them having Less poseable articulated joints than CR/RID 2000/2001 TF toys. Aaron Archer the lead TF Hasbro toy designer traded poseabilty for extreme gimmicks & this back fired badly.

Did it? I was under the impression that Armada was fairly successful as a line, despite the flaws you mention. I wish the chart in this thread viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1302 went back another few years so we could compare Armada to what came before.

2- 2008/2009 Animated TF toys were inferior toys compared to AEC & Movie-verse toys. Due to all the cut backs & the lower spending toy line budget. The Animated toys were almost void of Gimmicks & overly simplified in transfotmations,sculpt & details.

I'm not a huge fan of the Animated style, though I enjoyed the show due to the writing. But the sculpting and design was the gimmick for Animated. The new look was the gimmick. And it sold far better than any of the UT lines did, largely due to riding the success of the movie.

[Onslaught Six]

Why did you hate Alternators? I loved that line. But then again, I am kinda the resident Geewunner.

A hell of a lot of reasons. Scale (they were too damn big and didn't display well with anything besides Masterpieces, of which I own none), lack of cool weapons (they all sucked), toys that barely resembled the characters they were supposed to be (mismatched vehicle modes, paint schemes, heads, names, etc.), poorly-done fiddly transformations that took too long and weren't fun...that's just the start of it.

Did it? I was under the impression that Armada was fairly successful as a line, despite the flaws you mention. I wish the chart in this thread viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1302 went back another few years so we could compare Armada to what came before.

Armada might have been a (somewhat) financial success, but critically (in the eyes of collectors) it wasn't that great, and obviously Hasbro agreed because they managed to steer the toys back in the direction of more detailed figures that didn't sacrifice articulation for gimmickery. The Energon Decepticons reached a balance that, I feel, carried through the whole way into the first Movie toyline.

In fact, if you ask me, it was with Universe 2.0 and, especially, ROTF that we saw a shift to even more complicated and detailed figures. Compare ROTF Leader Prime to the first Movie Prime toy--it's like night and day. Regardless of some of the design choices, a lot of the ROTF toys were a huge step up in terms of making them actually look like the Movie designs. DOTM was a step back down, a little bit, which is really weird, but it was budget cuts, so.

Honestly, if the price hike had come with the ROTF figures instead of when it did, I think everybody would be a lot cooler with it.

[JediTricks]

2012 toys are not superior to 2011 toys, which themselves are not superior to 2010 toys. I'd say probably 2009/2010 toys were the pinnacle of the brand and it's been on a downhill slide since, but is now starting to show signs of finding its new levels. TFPBH Smokescreen is very good. Generations Soundwave and ilk are good. The upcoming Generations product looks very promising, as does TFPBH Shockwave. But I'm certainly not ready to say 2013 is better than 2010.

I think the brand was getting better and better coming off of Energon, after Energon it started to get better and better, then the movie hit and the design kicked up a notch which left Alternators feeling a little simple and brittle, and I think design hit its pinnacle in the 2009 era with both ROTF and Animated. Classics' first wave feels quaint by today's standards too.

[Onslaught Six]

I noticed this with the Avengers and GI Joe lines a little bit--figures are starting to vary a lot more in terms of quality on a figure-to-figure basis. I mean, with TF, it's always kind of been like that, because each one is usually so different, but like...even more so. It seems like Hasbro "knows" they can cheap out on certain figures because of what they are, and they assume that collectors--the people who would actually notice these drops in quality--so they concentrate on other toys.

Your Smokescreen example reminded me of that. Smokescreen is, for all intents and purposes, a more desirable figure than, say, BH Bumblebee or Wheeljack is, because he's a unique new character, he's a show character, and so on. Hasbro knows they can cheap out on Bumblebees because collectors don't care as much. It's the same reason they could release a Roadblock last year with a gimmick thing moulded to his hand, and missing ankle articulation and double-jointed knees--because fans were probably gonna skip him anyway and get the movie-accurate Wave 2 Roadblock. (Of course, now that the delay happened, there's an even better Roadblock coming in Wave 3, so...)