The 2012 Botcon schedule is up,its a bust/awful/garbage.

[Dominic]

The G2 Sideswipe debacle is a perfect example of what 'not' to do, in my opinion. Instead, it should either be one of the convention figures (because the custom class figure is always a repaint of one of those anyway) or a recent retail figure. Because, to me, the experience should be about customizing the figure, and not about getting an exclusive toy. I would argue that, if it's supposed to be a "customization" class (and not "assemble your own exclusive Transformer" class) you should simply be supplied with a disassembled recent retail figure, which would cut costs, which leads me to my next point...

G2 Sideswipe was not a debacle. And, I am saying that as the person here who likes that mould more than I probably should. And, TFU Overkill set precedent for custom class figures being available at mass retail later.

The reason that the classes assume everybody is making the same figure is the same reason that most classes give out the same assignments to all students, so that the instructor can give one set of instructions while leading people along. It is not unheard of for one or two people to actually make their own character. But, the main reason to go the class is to get that exclusive figure and access to the specialized tools to assemble it.

Seating in the customizing classes is a huge problem though.

That's why, for me, the whole point of having a convention is so that fellow fans can interact with each other, not sit around ogling new toys that will be on the internet anyway.

This I agree with. My first priority is looking at the guest list and panels. (That is why I am not bothering with Boston Comic Con this weekend. It is not worth my ~$30 for admission as none of the panels interest me, and I have no need to visit the dealer room.)

I think one of the biggest missed opportunities is some kind of video/viewing room. There's 25 years worth of TF cartoons--throw them up on a projector throughout the day. Give people a chance to see TFTM, in all its animated glory, for example. Or play the Michael Bay movies. Hell, you could make a thing out of showing episodes of Headmasters, Masterforce or Victory.

As much as I like video rooms, they do (in theory) draw attention from the dealer room.

I think Botcon might be falling into a weird time period for Hasbro right now because they're probably planning on revealing a bunch of stuff at SDCC. Botcon should really be later in the year; if they continue doing it in these early months I will never be able to go because I always have MAGFest recovery time and eventually I want to start going to PAX East.

PAX East always sell through too quickly. But, it is by all accounts a superior convention.

I also like how BotCon is usually scheduled for when people and/or their kids are in school.

Yeah, I noticed that there's no "Feedback Panel" which is something I have seen every single other convention I've ever been to do (bar Steel City Con, which doesn't have ANY panels PERIOD) and that worries me.

Feedback panels at BotCon tend to be venomous affairs. Remember the fan base.

Of course, there are plenty of problems that Savage could address without a panel.....



Dom
-still wants Tracks....

[Sparky Prime]

I think one of the biggest missed opportunities is some kind of video/viewing room. There's 25 years worth of TF cartoons--throw them up on a projector throughout the day. Give people a chance to see TFTM, in all its animated glory, for example. Or play the Michael Bay movies. Hell, you could make a thing out of showing episodes of Headmasters, Masterforce or Victory.

A couple years they've had screenings of the movies or previewed the first episode of the cartoons.

Why can't I run my panel on "Beast Machines: Misunderstood Masterpiece?"

I can imagine the carnage that would unfold already.

[BWprowl]

First off, I don't like having to come in here as the moderator. The tone in this thread is awful, ugly, and unpleasant; the personal attacks on one of our members is unprecedented and unwelcome. We can have a grown-up discussion here without resorting to being nasty to each other, whether or not we agree with the original poster's sentiments. If you don't like what someone has to say, you can either be an adult in your response, or you can simply not read it at all, both are reasonable choices within your power. We are a group, we are supposed to be above this, to welcome other ideas and have a spirited discussion comparing those ideas, not to just dump on each other -- please remember that, it'll help keep our group together and growing. We can talk about childish things without acting like jerky little children.

You're right. I was out of line. Prowl might have started pushing the bandwagon, but that didn't stop me from jumping in and throwing a brick on the gas. Tigger called me on it and I politely said nothing to diffuse the situation.

I apologize too, as you may have been able to tell, my outburst was more due to a buildup of personal issues than an actual desire to attack TigerMegatron (I’ll also point out that I never once insulted his girlfriend). It was ill-advised on my part, and I’ll move forward by not pushing the issue any further.

I think one of the biggest missed opportunities is some kind of video/viewing room. There's 25 years worth of TF cartoons--throw them up on a projector throughout the day. Give people a chance to see TFTM, in all its animated glory, for example. Or play the Michael Bay movies. Hell, you could make a thing out of showing episodes of Headmasters, Masterforce or Victory.

This. Fanime has *dozens* of viewing rooms showing lots of different stuff all day, and this is great for my friends and I. Yeah, it’s easy to watch whatever anime I want at home on my computer, but in this context, it gives me an excuse to check stuff out. “Oh, there’s no panel we want to go to until like two hours from now.” “Well look, this room is showing the Lupin III Green vs Red special, I’d been meaning to check that out!” or “God dammit you guys why have you still not watched Madoka Magica it’s showing in this room we’re going to watch it right now.” Or we can kill time by sitting in something stupid like the Fatal Fury movies and yelling out various MST-ish lines and making everyone laugh because we’re awesome. I’m sure if I was at BotCon, I wouldn’t mind filling time by watching a couple episodes of Masterforce or RiD or something.

Arguably, the profits from scalping the exclusives could pay for your hotel, which isn't included in the $300+ for the set.

I’d still say you should have more of a choice in the matter.

I would like the customizing classes better if they were more accessible and less...cruddy. For one thing, the figures in the class shouldn't be "exclusives" unto themselves. The G2 Sideswipe debacle is a perfect example of what 'not' to do, in my opinion. Instead, it should either be one of the convention figures (because the custom class figure is always a repaint of one of those anyway) or a recent retail figure. Because, to me, the experience should be about customizing the figure, and not about getting an exclusive toy. I would argue that, if it's supposed to be a "customization" class (and not "assemble your own exclusive Transformer" class) you should simply be supplied with a disassembled recent retail figure, which would cut costs, which leads me to my next point...

I think the barrier of entry on the customizing class 'sucks.' If I'm not wrong, it costs an additional fee to get in, which, okay, I kind of understand. But it's an expensive fee! No matter how short-run these figures are, there's no doubt in my mind that they're making some kind of profit on them through this. This is why they should just provide us with retail figures who have been disassembled already, because that's what you do when you're customizing. You start with a retail figure. In addition, you have to register for it online in advance, which is a pain in the ass and cuts off people like me who don't want to spend $300 to go to a dealer room convention. In addition, the two classes are on Wednesday and Thursday which just further kills it. Fuck that, jam that shit into Saturday and Sunday like a real convention. God knows you need more weekend programming.

I don’t know much about what goes on at the customizing class, but (especially with recent years where the relevant toy was already cast in its intended colors) it seems less like instruction on toy customization and more like paying extra for the experience of working in a toy assembly line at a Hasbro factory. Do they actually give you, like, instruction on customizing techniques? Like “Here’s a good way to cover up darker colors with colors like yellow” or “Here’s a cool dry-brushing trick” or “If you cut away this part on the figure, then the range of motion on this part will increase and you can differentiate it from the base figure” or stuff like that? Or is it just “Here’s the tools, slap the thing together, paint on the details exactly how they look, there’s your exclusive toy”? Because if the latter…that’s kind of disappointing. Anyone can disassemble/reassemble a Transformer. A customizing class should actually teach you how to *customize* something.

That turns out to be super true, but I'd argue that this year's Botcon has less to offer for both, there's less of that weird stuff, and less of "here's what we're doing next" about it. There isn't even a damned TF:Prime panel, that's a fairly awful statement to make about what they think of the brand and its fans.

I don’t even care about TFPrime as a show, and I still realize that that’s mind-blowingly stupid.

It would be nice if the Q&A panels weren't full of occasional idiots who ask seriously bad questions, like, "When are you making [x]?" or "Hey what do you think about Warbot Defender?"

Well, we finally got Wheeljack out of the way, so people can stop asking about him. It seems like Gears is going to be the next character people Do Not Shut Up about Hasbro making a new version of.

There need to be MORE of these! Seriously. In all my years of going to the Botcon website, or reading their Twitter or whatever, I've never seen them advertising "Hey, if you want to run a panel, let us know! Give us an idea!" Otakon starts advertising for that shit in like February and they run in late July. What's the deal? Why can't I run my panel on "Beast Machines: Misunderstood Masterpiece?" Because Primus knows I can't try to sell that panel at Otakon, MAGFest or PAX or anything. Botcon is pretty much the only place where a panel like that would fly. (And for the record: Yes, I have pretty much that entire panel set up in my head.)

I’d attend!

Hey, let’s make our own convention! And it can be way better, with blackjack, and hookers! In fact, forget the convention! And the blackjack!

MAGFest has a great environment for this kind of thing. You can typically find many of the guests just wandering around, hanging out, throughout the days. It's great. (I often see bandmembers I've only talked to on Twitter or Facebook and we BS about what they're going to do next.)

For years, Fresno had this *really* shitty anime convention, which was really shitty, save for one thing: Johnny Yong Bosch would be there. The ONE year I was able to go, and…that was the year he didn’t come. QQ

Yeah, I noticed that there's no "Feedback Panel" which is something I have seen every single other convention I've ever been to do (bar Steel City Con, which doesn't have ANY panels PERIOD) and that worries me.

Part of me wonders if Hasbro isn’t somewhat scared of doing a ‘Fan Feedback’ panel on account of the…reputation Transfans can have regarding these things. Look, this place is pretty chill, and I’ve known a *few* other cool people, but a lot of Transfans just get fucking crazy and hate-filled whenever they feel things aren’t catering especially to them. All it would take is a couple people trying to make their opinions heard over each other in a feedback panel for things to turn dangerously venomous and an escalated brawl to break out.

…I might actually attend, in that case.

[Dominic]

Have you heard about the Hasbro panel at BC00, during the 3H days? I was there. It was every bit as bad as you probably heard.

don’t know much about what goes on at the customizing class, but (especially with recent years where the relevant toy was already cast in its intended colors) it seems less like instruction on toy customization and more like paying extra for the experience of working in a toy assembly line at a Hasbro factory.

The class is very basic. There are people who do not understand the importance of breaking a figure down before painting it. That, in and of itself, is a lesson for some people. Much the same can be said for basic painting techniques.

The class also gives people the the chance to work with high quality tools and paints that they probably would not be able to use anywhere else.


Running a convention is difficult and expensive. I used to talk to the Hartmans (no joke, their phone number was published in an old issue of Tomart's back in the 90s), and they had horror stories about things you would not even consider. And, that was when the convention was much smaller. At the very least, you have to secure a venue. It is usually possible to work out a deal with dealers. Guests can be problematic, especialy when they are not local. (Even if they do not charge for appearances, you have to pay for their transport, food and lodging.)


Dom
-would take the class in a heartbeat but for cost.

[Shockwave]

I didn't go to the customizing class in 09 because I already felt that I had skills necessary for customizing and didn't figure that I would be able to learn much. Now, the question I have is do you get to keep the tools they give you and how specialized are they? I didn't go in 09 because I thought since I already had a figure in the custom contest that it would be somewhat contradictory and I didn't want to pay the additional fee. And that year, the custom class fig was from the set.

I guess one of the reasons I'm surprised by all the complaining about current cons is because I remember a time when cons were literally only about fans getting together. You were lucky if there were guests to sign autographs and even then that was about it. Panels were virtually non existent and it was really the only way to buy/sell/trade with other fans. Granted, this was long before Al Gore invented the internet. Now, I went to Botcon back in 09 and it was the first con I'd gone to in easily over a decade and I was blown away by how much there was to do and see. It certainly was not just a glorified bazaar.

[BWprowl]

I guess one of the reasons I'm surprised by all the complaining about current cons is because I remember a time when cons were literally only about fans getting together. You were lucky if there were guests to sign autographs and even then that was about it. Panels were virtually non existent and it was really the only way to buy/sell/trade with other fans. Granted, this was long before Al Gore invented the internet. Now, I went to Botcon back in 09 and it was the first con I'd gone to in easily over a decade and I was blown away by how much there was to do and see. It certainly was not just a glorified bazaar.

Dude, we are Transfans. We Are Never Happy.

Have you heard about the Hasbro panel at BC00, during the 3H days? I was there. It was every bit as bad as you probably heard.

Oh man, no I didn't hear about it (I would have been barely 13 at the time, not really following fandom news). Please explain, this sounds like gold.

The class is very basic. There are people who do not understand the importance of breaking a figure down before painting it. That, in and of itself, is a lesson for some people. Much the same can be said for basic painting techniques.

Do they *give* you basic painting techniques? Thinning paints and using coats and keeping directional brush-strokes and the like? I dunno, it feels like they could do *more*. How long is the customizing class, anyway? "Take the figure apart before painting" shouldn't be a lesson that takes up more than one sentence at the beginning of the class.

On the other hand, maybe I'm seriously overestimating the learning capacity of the Transfans attending the customizing class. *shrug*

[Shockwave]

I guess one of the reasons I'm surprised by all the complaining about current cons is because I remember a time when cons were literally only about fans getting together. You were lucky if there were guests to sign autographs and even then that was about it. Panels were virtually non existent and it was really the only way to buy/sell/trade with other fans. Granted, this was long before Al Gore invented the internet. Now, I went to Botcon back in 09 and it was the first con I'd gone to in easily over a decade and I was blown away by how much there was to do and see. It certainly was not just a glorified bazaar.

Dude, we are Transfans. We Are Never Happy.

Have you heard about the Hasbro panel at BC00, during the 3H days? I was there. It was every bit as bad as you probably heard.

Oh man, no I didn't hear about it (I would have been barely 13 at the time, not really following fandom news). Please explain, this sounds like gold.

The class is very basic. There are people who do not understand the importance of breaking a figure down before painting it. That, in and of itself, is a lesson for some people. Much the same can be said for basic painting techniques.

Do they *give* you basic painting techniques? Thinning paints and using coats and keeping directional brush-strokes and the like? I dunno, it feels like they could do *more*. How long is the customizing class, anyway? "Take the figure apart before painting" shouldn't be a lesson that takes up more than one sentence at the beginning of the class.

On the other hand, maybe I'm seriously overestimating the learning capacity of the Transfans attending the customizing class. *shrug*

HAHAHAHAHA!! Ah yes, silly me, I forgot. It was the Trekkie in me.

I also would like to know more about the 2000 Debacle. I wasn't even on the internet at the time.

[Onslaught Six]

Both days, the customizing class runs from...9am to 5pm?! Jesus Christ! I want to paint a figure, but not for an eight-hour workday. I understand paint takes time to dry and such, but couldn't they rotate in different groups of people during that time period?

Regarding cons and activities, I'm paying between $40 and $75 for your average Fan Convention. (Otakon's standard prereg is seriously $75. Yes! That 'is' insane!) That's for, typically, Thursday to Sunday. I've always rationalized it by saying that a trip to Six Flags, Universal or Disney or somesuch would cost just as much for a 'single day,' and in my head that makes a lot of sense. So in keeping that same comparison, I expect the same general amount of "attractions" and other such Things To Do as I would any theme park.

That said, I do understand half the point of a con is to meet people and BS around. That's fine. I like that element, too! Some of my best friends, I met at conventions. But I'm a Transformers fan, and I can easily think of, fuck it, ten panels I alone could run, let alone anyone who actually was an expert on this shit:

1) Aformentioned Beast Machines debate panel
2) European Exclusives: G1.5
3) Headmasters - Zone panel
4) History of Marvel TF panel (this would be INCREDIBLY cool this year, as Furman would be there and Regeneration One is coming in June)
5) The Greater Movie Universe, aka why the movie universe is super-cool and the worst things in it are the movies themselves
6) Drift Appreciation Panel
7) Bruticus Hates You All: A Retrospective on the Combaticons and their many repaints & remoulds
8) Obscure Non-Toy Transformers Panel
9) Transformers in Music (songs about Transformers, bands that have made TF-related songs, etc.)
10) TF Licensed Crap: The Good, Bad and Ugly (panel about licensed items like hats, shirts, etc. showing a variety of really cool stuff and really obscure inane stuff, like the vintage Soundwave activity set)
Bonus 11th) Rodimus Prime Is Cooler Than Optimus Prime (special guest Tigermegatron)

Sure, the market might be limited on a few of those, but there's surely a ton of fans who, for example, don't even know that Bruticus was repainted a whopping seven times (eight if you count the reissue), or know anything about the Japanese cartoons and it could easily work as a quick primer. And sure, some of those are just designed to be outlets for arguments (the Drift panel would turn up just as many people who hate Drift as it would people who like him) but that's in the spirit of conventions, isn't it?

[Dominic]

Do they *give* you basic painting techniques? Thinning paints and using coats and keeping directional brush-strokes and the like? I dunno, it feels like they could do *more*. How long is the customizing class, anyway? "Take the figure apart before painting" shouldn't be a lesson that takes up more than one sentence at the beginning of the class.

From what I heard, the painting is very basic. But, the class takes several hours. In theory, if you work fast, it would be possible to finish the toy on site.

Somebody like Shockwave or myself would be at an advantage. We could paint the more difficult pieces with Hasbro's higher quality paints and then assemble specialized parts using Hasbro's tools. We could afford to be methodical on some things because we would have the skills necessary to finish the toys at home.

One of the problems with the class is that not everybody who gets in and gets a (very limited) figure can actually paint or assemble worth a damn. It is not unheard for figures to leave the room incomplete or unpainted, or to end up with scrapes and scratches.

From what I have heard, the tools are good for assembling rivets and such. (You might actually have them at home. But, few people would.) And, no, you do not get to keep them. Similarly, you may have the skills. But, not everybody does. I would personally go for the figure. The customizing class figure always shares tooling with somethin in the boxed set. But, if you like the base figure, that is a selling point. If not, well, I am given to understand that a BC10 Sideswipe sold for 1K about 15 minutes after the class ended.

I am not sure about the figure schematics. Hasbro might not want those getting out. But, I cannot say for sure.

Please explain, this sounds like gold.

If you want to know why Hasbro kept its distance from the fans for a few years a decade back, this is a big part of why. Every question was a complaint or insult. Hasbro wanted to spill the beans about upcoming stuff. But, the fans wanted to whine and complain, asking loaded questions about imports and just generally complaining.

Granted, this was long before Al Gore invented the internet.

Exactly. This was back when comics, gaming and sci fi were all pretty closeted hobbies. If you were lucky, there were one or two more like you in a given area. (I am just old enough to remember those times.) But, if you did not have a comic or gaming store, you were unlikely to meet those people. Over time, fandoms got more organized, even before the internet.

Conventions like BotCon are primarily about fostering commerce, which is why they are not taken seriously outside of the primary fan base. And, there is a suprisingly large number of fans who go to conventions primarily for the dealer rooms.

The draw for me is the panels because I cannot get those anywhere else, with autographs being a nice extra.

Both days, the customizing class runs from...9am to 5pm?! Jesus Christ! I want to paint a figure, but not for an eight-hour workday. I understand paint takes time to dry and such, but couldn't they rotate in different groups of people during that time period?

It takes time to paint and assemble a figure well, and you are paying enough for a figure you are only likely to ever get one shot at. If anything, 8 hours is short.

Dom
-still wants Tracks...

[JediTricks]

Yeah, they always say that the one best thing about Sacramento is that it's in the middle of everywhere so it's easy to leave Sacramento. Although with my current budget I'd be lucky to even afford a trip to SF much less anywhere else. I'd love to go to SDCC sometime but have never been able to afford it.

Ha! Every road leads out of Sacramento, eh?

The key to trips like that is to make friends in the area that can put you up, or can even get you a way into the show for free. It's worth it. Careful planning can also make a meal out of a day at a convention. SDCC is a beast of a convention and requires a TON of resources either in cash or in very careful planning, but if you're only going to go to 1 convention in your life, it's the one because it has so much of everything. I'm kinda surprised to hear though that a trip to San Fran would be a budget-buster for someone in Sacramento.

Well color me wrong then. I just assumed that random fans handing out detailed in depth ideas for toys they won't make would just annoy the shit out of them. But hey, if they really do listen then yeah, I say go for it, Deathy! You may just get that MP Galvatron after all. I guess the main reason I said this is because I don't even give a fuck what I think and as such I don't expect anyone else to either and sometimes I extend that to everyone else.

It's easier to have faith when you see it year after year in action, I suppose. Going to Comic Con every year for the past 6 years has opened my eyes a lot to the things that do and don't work, and listening to the Hasbro guys talk at panels beyond just the basic "here's what's new" comments has some insight too (although I can see someone taking their comments as blowing smoke, but it's not always - check out the full videos of those panels if you can). Don't be too harsh on yourself, Hasbro TF isn't deaf to its fans, it's just hard to tell sometimes that they are listening.

Because conventions were originally started as a way for fandoms to interact with each other. The first conventions were Star Trek conventions started in the late 60's, early 70's and they were put on by fans for other fans to interact with other fans. It's only in the last couple decades that conventions have turned into large corporate marketing juggernauts for the purpose of consumer feedback, exclusive sales, and more market research. That's why, for me, the whole point of having a convention is so that fellow fans can interact with each other, not sit around ogling new toys that will be on the internet anyway. It's an experience, not a newspaper, or at least it should be. That's how I felt when I went in '09 and they did a good job of making it feel like an experience rather than some corporate shill event, even if that's what it's become. I mean, if you're not going to bother interacting with people and all you want is to look at new toys, either go to a toy store or browse the internet. Then you don't have all those pesky "people" getting in your way. But if you actually want some real social interaction, THAT'S why you go to a con, because there are people there that like the same thing you do.

Cons still are about those things, and part of our fandom is learning about new product. It just doesn't make sense to me that any of us should be telling another how THEY should enjoy their convention experience. Comic-Con was always intended to be about fanboy comics and movies and collectibles, that's what its creator Shel Dorf had in mind, from Comic-Con in '76 a little presentation started the ball rolling on what would become the largest movie franchise in history - Star Wars. In a little room in the Grant hotel, a hundred or so people looked at art and stills from the production listening to Lucasfilm's marketing guy sell the first Star Wars movie ideas, while in the next room were panels about comics and fantasy novels and all sorts of things. Fan-interest conventions are supposed to be for everybody, whether you like the social aspect, the merchandising aspect, the artistic aspect, the collecting aspect, the creative aspects, whatever your brand of geek draws to you there should be room for all of us to enjoy it our way. Besides, just because someone goes to a con for only one thing doesn't mean that's how it'll end up - one might go for the new toys and strike up a friendship talking about them with a fellow fan there for the same thing.

You're right. I was out of line. Prowl might have started pushing the bandwagon, but that didn't stop me from jumping in and throwing a brick on the gas. Tigger called me on it and I politely said nothing to diffuse the situation.

Thanks for saying so. It's quite a thing seeing how you've grown up from an angry(ier) kid on the internet to a more mature person today.

I think one of the biggest missed opportunities is some kind of video/viewing room. There's 25 years worth of TF cartoons--throw them up on a projector throughout the day. Give people a chance to see TFTM, in all its animated glory, for example. Or play the Michael Bay movies. Hell, you could make a thing out of showing episodes of Headmasters, Masterforce or Victory.

YES! This is so true (they had a viewing of TFTM during Botcon last year, but it was held at a theater 20 miles west), Botcon has a panel for this, but Star Wars Celebration IV had not 1 but 2 theaters set up constantly running videos - one was fan films, the other was pop culture stuff (commercials, parodies, what have you) and it was a great way to fill downtime at the convention. I think Botcon would need to grow bigger to be able to do that though, as they'd need more than 1 panel room and they'd need to be able to hire staff to run it. Shout Factory should sponsor evening content for the next Botcon though now that they've put out Headmasters, they have the right sensibilities and access to make that work.

I think you've got the wrong context here. Prowl was under the impression that Tigger was actually paying to attend Botcon, which changes things. I think the core of it is, "Why are you paying to go to Botcon if you apparently hate everything about Botcon? That makes no sense, at all." Which it doesn't! But since he's not going to Botcon, that's a little different.

I mean, last year it got to the point where my complaints about going to Otakon (for both reasons related to the convention and unrelated personal issues) outweighed the positives, and said positives could be achieved otherwise anyway, so this year I pretty much made the decision not to go. Complaining that Otakon isn't going to have very much stuff for me, the literal non-con goer, to do, is kind of inane.

I did understand, and actually it's even worse that way because Prowl thinking TM was going should have made it MORE reasonable that TM was complaining - imagine someone has paid over $500 to go to Botcon and 2 weeks before the show, when airline tickets and hotel rooms and convention badges have all been set in stone and purchased, that is when Botcon reveals the convention has virtually NO interest for that person, wouldn't they have an even BETTER right to complain?

Voicing one's frustration with an event seems like a way to raise the discourse about the problems with the event which in turn could help the promoters of the event make it better next time.

I can get pretty much the same experience by going to Steel City Con in Pittsburgh on a Sunday for $12, and that's maybe a two or three hour drive at best.

It's different here in LA, we have a twice-weekly bazaar (Frank & Son collector show) that has a decent TF presence, and then a monthly con that may or may not - I've never been - but I am told by scalpers that they go so it seems like our area is saturated in the wrong level of bazaar-ness, going to Steel City actually seems cooler because it doesn't overwhelm your local market week after week.

Arguably, the profits from scalping the exclusives could pay for your hotel, which isn't included in the $300+ for the set.

My point was more to Botcon prices being high to justify toys that many only buy to pay for going to Botcon, it's a downward spiral for the Botcon promoters.

I would like the customizing classes better if they were more accessible and less...cruddy. For one thing, the figures in the class shouldn't be "exclusives" unto themselves. The G2 Sideswipe debacle is a perfect example of what 'not' to do, in my opinion. Instead, it should either be one of the convention figures (because the custom class figure is always a repaint of one of those anyway) or a recent retail figure. Because, to me, the experience should be about customizing the figure, and not about getting an exclusive toy. I would argue that, if it's supposed to be a "customization" class (and not "assemble your own exclusive Transformer" class) you should simply be supplied with a disassembled recent retail figure, which would cut costs, which leads me to my next point...

I don't at all agree with this. One of the very points of customizing is to make something that the company won't make, if Hasbro and even FunPub ain't gonna make a Minerva or G2 Sideswipe available in another way, someone's going to do it as a custom so why not have them in the customizing class? Granted, having them actually manufactured and decoed does make them seem more like impossible-to-get "products" than customs, but it's a class.

I think the barrier of entry on the customizing class 'sucks.' If I'm not wrong, it costs an additional fee to get in, which, okay, I kind of understand. But it's an expensive fee! No matter how short-run these figures are, there's no doubt in my mind that they're making some kind of profit on them through this. This is why they should just provide us with retail figures who have been disassembled already, because that's what you do when you're customizing. You start with a retail figure. In addition, you have to register for it online in advance, which is a pain in the ass and cuts off people like me who don't want to spend $300 to go to a dealer room convention. In addition, the two classes are on Wednesday and Thursday which just further kills it. Fuck that, jam that shit into Saturday and Sunday like a real convention. God knows you need more weekend programming.

Consider it lab fees. Having the larger public at those classes would make them impossible to give the way they are now. I do see your point in those frustrations though.

I highly doubt they're making profits on the figures, they give the rest away to volunteers and I think the runs on Minerva and G2 Sideswipe are like 100 each, at $50 a pop that's probably a loss in a vacuum and thus absorbed into the overall cost of the show. If FunPub is actually making any money on these shows, it really can't be much, and they may have to pay taxes on the left-over exclusives and shirts which they cart out to the next shows (any unsold merch after a year is subject to federal tax).

Ouch, I didn't even notice! You'd think they would want to tease story bits for the next year or something. Jesus.

I think Botcon might be falling into a weird time period for Hasbro right now because they're probably planning on revealing a bunch of stuff at SDCC. Botcon should really be later in the year; if they continue doing it in these early months I will never be able to go because I always have MAGFest recovery time and eventually I want to start going to PAX East.

Not having anything for TF:P sends a bad message, intentional or not.

Hasbro always has had to juggle what they show at Botcon and what they show at SDCC - Botcon gets a few exclusive looks that aren't allowed to be shown online (that's why the Hasbro slideshow isn't given out or allowed to be photographed at Botcon) and then a couple months later SDCC and the other cons on the circuit get a look at some of that stuff but not all, but since they're further along in the development cycle they get a look at newer stuff too. Late April vs mid-May isn't really a change in timing concerning SDCC because this year SDCC has also moved up 2 weeks to July 11th.

It would be nice if the Q&A panels weren't full of occasional idiots who ask seriously bad questions, like, "When are you making [x]?" or "Hey what do you think about Warbot Defender?"

No kidding dude, I have heart for everybody in the hobby but it's a hobby that invites some folks who are socially-skewed enough to not know that asking a litany of those sorts of questions (or worse, the ULTRA SPECIFIC "why did you make this with that thing on the arm when you should have made it over there on the leg instead because of one frame from the Japanese OVA when they... " question guys) and it gets tiring when there's a friggin' clock running AND I'm trying to type up every question for news.

Also there's the handful of geniuses who get in line and ask about when they're going to release something we JUST saw in the slideshow, as if they had dozed off or something. SO ANNOYING.

There need to be MORE of these! Seriously. In all my years of going to the Botcon website, or reading their Twitter or whatever, I've never seen them advertising "Hey, if you want to run a panel, let us know! Give us an idea!" Otakon starts advertising for that shit in like February and they run in late July. What's the deal? Why can't I run my panel on "Beast Machines: Misunderstood Masterpiece?" Because Primus knows I can't try to sell that panel at Otakon, MAGFest or PAX or anything. Botcon is pretty much the only place where a panel like that would fly. (And for the record: Yes, I have pretty much that entire panel set up in my head.)

Comic-Con would have draw for it, if you have the cash, you could get a 200-person room and probably fill it halfway at minimum. But Botcon is the best place by far, and yet you're totally right that they don't have any open area to create panels. That's a shame, it seems like they're setting up their own inability to grow by not giving fans a better ability to have their own voice THROUGH CASH!

(I was also being sarcastic about the "women are fickle and sometimes undesirable" bit. I was trying to make Prowl feel better about being single.)

I didn't get the sarcasm, it seemed to me to be doing the opposite of what you intended, so I guess that one is misunderstanding all around.

Yeah, I noticed that there's no "Feedback Panel" which is something I have seen every single other convention I've ever been to do (bar Steel City Con, which doesn't have ANY panels PERIOD) and that worries me.

Yeah, it makes it seem like a fiefdom, like the convention is a one-man-band that way.

Another thing I just found, this year's Botcon has priority seating, so general admittance ticketholders cannot sit in the first 3 rows - that's different from the 2 Botcons I've been to, and it'd be more annoying but they've never filled any panel to capacity ever, according to their page. And now I'm seeing general admittance is offered in an "early bird" option to get in at 9am on Saturday for only TRIPLE the cost of the regular ticket, which is a lot of yuck.

Seating in the customizing classes is a huge problem though.

I've heard that they've not sold every seat/set to date between the 2 classes at each show, but I can only speak thirdhand on the matter.

As much as I like video rooms, they do (in theory) draw attention from the dealer room.

Bah! The dealer room/exhibit hall gets boring after a while, even if you want to see more you still get tired of being hawked at and shilled at and having elbows put in your face and flashes blasting in your eyes. And then you have to head back in at certain times for certain events but you don't have a panel you want to see to kill that time.

I also like how BotCon is usually scheduled for when people and/or their kids are in school.

That's why general admittance is held on the weekend. There were a TON of kids on the weekends at '09 and '11, they loved it, and the exhibitors held back swag specifically for those days.

I think one of the biggest missed opportunities is some kind of video/viewing room. There's 25 years worth of TF cartoons--throw them up on a projector throughout the day. Give people a chance to see TFTM, in all its animated glory, for example. Or play the Michael Bay movies. Hell, you could make a thing out of showing episodes of Headmasters, Masterforce or Victory.

A couple years they've had screenings of the movies or previewed the first episode of the cartoons.

As panels though, not as rooms. It's a different experience, Comic-Con has an entire side theater in a hotel next door that for the entire 5 days does nothing but show movies I think 24 hours a day.

I can imagine the carnage that would unfold already.

The best con panels are the ones with the most vitriol!

I apologize too, as you may have been able to tell, my outburst was more due to a buildup of personal issues than an actual desire to attack TigerMegatron (I’ll also point out that I never once insulted his girlfriend). It was ill-advised on my part, and I’ll move forward by not pushing the issue any further.

Thanks for saying that.

I’d still say you should have more of a choice in the matter.

You do, there's the $150/$225 (club/non-club) Protoform packages that don't include the figures, and the $90 Minicon package that is a non-figure package as an add-on to a Primus-holder (so it's the "guest you suckered into coming to a convention they barely have any understanding about" package ).

Well, we finally got Wheeljack out of the way, so people can stop asking about him. It seems like Gears is going to be the next character people Do Not Shut Up about Hasbro making a new version of.

This is another reason I hate Legends/Legion, just because they barfed out an unfindable Brawn in Legends now Gears gets the focus. We need a non-sucky Brawn figure before we get Gears, I say! But noooo, stupid Legends has a Brawn mold so that makes it drop down the list again. Ass. Stupid Legends!

(Have I complained enough yet to be obviously Gears-themed?)

Hey, let’s make our own convention! And it can be way better, with blackjack, and hookers! In fact, forget the convention! And the blackjack!

Excellent, we can build it on the moon.

For years, Fresno had this *really* shitty anime convention, which was really shitty, save for one thing: Johnny Yong Bosch would be there. The ONE year I was able to go, and…that was the year he didn’t come. QQ

Fresno is the "Newman!" of towns. "Fresno!"

Part of me wonders if Hasbro isn’t somewhat scared of doing a ‘Fan Feedback’ panel on account of the…reputation Transfans can have regarding these things. Look, this place is pretty chill, and I’ve known a *few* other cool people, but a lot of Transfans just get fucking crazy and hate-filled whenever they feel things aren’t catering especially to them. All it would take is a couple people trying to make their opinions heard over each other in a feedback panel for things to turn dangerously venomous and an escalated brawl to break out.

Feedback panels are specifically about the convention, not general feedback about the brand, so only FunPub would be there to listen.

Running a convention is difficult and expensive. I used to talk to the Hartmans (no joke, their phone number was published in an old issue of Tomart's back in the 90s), and they had horror stories about things you would not even consider. And, that was when the convention was much smaller. At the very least, you have to secure a venue. It is usually possible to work out a deal with dealers. Guests can be problematic, especialy when they are not local. (Even if they do not charge for appearances, you have to pay for their transport, food and lodging.)

Yeah, this is so truth! I looked into starting a convention (not for any of our interests) and it was all like that, all problems and expenses, no real benefit without the passion of doing it.

I guess one of the reasons I'm surprised by all the complaining about current cons is because I remember a time when cons were literally only about fans getting together. You were lucky if there were guests to sign autographs and even then that was about it. Panels were virtually non existent and it was really the only way to buy/sell/trade with other fans. Granted, this was long before Al Gore invented the internet. Now, I went to Botcon back in 09 and it was the first con I'd gone to in easily over a decade and I was blown away by how much there was to do and see. It certainly was not just a glorified bazaar.

To me, Botcon '09 was very similar to the Trek cons I went to in the '80s, 1 panel room for events and then a big dealer room, except the Botcon dealer room also had exhibits unlike those '80s Trek cons (even the big ones Creation put on). I didn't go to the ancillary events at Botcon '09 though, now that I think about it, just Friday, Saturday, and Sunday at the convention center. Those poor confused old ladies at the craft convention sharing our part of the convention center.

But compared to Star Wars Celebration and Comic-Con, Botcon seemed quaint, and hard to see where the money is going when it's comparably priced to those conventions. Botcon barely beat out Wizard World LA, and that show was a bust.