What do TF:P, WFC,TF:U and Exile have to do with each other?

No noses? No problem! Zombiebots? Sure, why not. A confusing new canon that allows loose and contradictory material? And now a new sequel show with an entirely different art style that takes place way in the future!
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Onslaught Six
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Re: What do TF:P, WFC,TF:U and Exile have to do with each ot

Post by Onslaught Six »

JediTricks wrote:Visuals are one thing, though how War for Cybertron and TF:P can exist in the same universe is baffling, especially Soundwave; but I'm talking about stuff like Dark Energon having different behaviors and meanings, having more understanding in WFC and then less understanding in TF:P, and being entirely opposite actions when Cybertron is infected by it; or Sentinel Prime and Zeta Prime being different characters yet both being Optimus' direct predecessor (and Hasbro's "Sentinel Zeta Prime" thing doesn't really address how WFC attends to the character, IIRC); and WFC and Exodus tell stories of the same war yet with at times entirely different situations.
Hey, I agree with you. I think it's lazy and cruddy too. (For what it's worth, though, from what I've seen of Exodus, it basically amounts to telling about events that happen "around" the game. Actual events that happen in the game's storyline are usually just kind of alluded to or glossed over. "And then the Autobots fought Trypticon and won.") But as for things like Prime being called Orion Pax in Exodus and Prime but just "Optimus" in WFC...yeah. (That said, I think WFC is supposed to be the most "mainstream" of the new universe, and definitely before Hasbro came out about this whole aligned continuity thing, they were definitely pitching it to people as a prequel/reboot of the G1 cartoon. Mainstreamers won't know that Optimus Prime was named Orion Pax before he was Optimus Prime, so he just becomes Optimus before that. Or...someone on WFC's writing team really didn't like Orion Pax. Or they didn't feel like having you play through half the game as "Orion Pax" instead of Optimus Prime, The Franchise Star.)
It's that they're all made without any intended intention to tie into the greater TF story, they are produced to stand-alone with less restrictions as to their storylines.
I don't like the idea of there being a "greater TF story" in that sense, I think that's more restrictive than anything else. But then, I've been dying for a series with no Prime or Megatron for *years* and the comics are finally giving it to me...Imagine if Hasbro said IDW's continuities needed to align with this now. I'd definitely be out.
Also, Hasbro is only a helper monkey on the UT, there are enough storylines and elements from those 3 shows to prove they were produced as much for a non-US audience, if not moreso.
Nah, Aaron Archer came up with all the concepts for the shows--the whole thing with the Minicons, the whole thing with Energon's whatever-the-fuck, and Cybertron's whole going-to-different-planets-to-get-the-keys thing. Takara just put it through the Japan Filter and messed up a lot of it.
I like WFC though, Exodus and TF:U sounded interesting, so it is a curiosity to me to have Hasbro claim all these clearly different entertainment vessels are related and telling the same story. If you told the Aligned canon as a single narrative, you'd have characters appearing and disappearing in the same paragraph, and contradictory sentences leading into each other. I find that odd considering Hasbro is trying to build a larger new Transformers ethos and yet it doesn't seem to fit together all that well from the outset.
I'm honestly thinking what happened was Hasbro had all these kind-of similar things that were already being worked on, and then haphazardly decided they were all supposed to fit together, and thusly wrote some vague rules. Or maybe the vague rules came first, and Hasbro has been lax about some of them. I dunno.
Lucas has so much "expanded universe" materials that the Star Wars universe is now broken up into levels of canon, that's how fractured it can be. Movies are one level of canon, Marvel comics are a lower level, Ewoks & Droids cartoons still a different level, the new cartoon a TV level while the previous cartoon a lower level, and so forth.
I've got this little mental version of it. To me, Prime is obviously meant to be the flagship of the canon, if such a thing can even be called a canon. Obviously whatever happens in Prime is how Hasbro sees it going down. If the novels or games deviate from this, it's on their head, I feel.
I think the key here was that mistakes which confuse the story were less acceptable, but in TF sometimes color is the only clear element to differentiate a character in a shot, a lot of the TFs are drawn somewhat similar to others.
Shooter was also a stickler for typos and making sure things were spelled correctly. He was very concerned with comics reading well.
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Re: What do TF:P, WFC,TF:U and Exile have to do with each ot

Post by JediTricks »

Onslaught Six wrote:Hey, I agree with you. I think it's lazy and cruddy too. (For what it's worth, though, from what I've seen of Exodus, it basically amounts to telling about events that happen "around" the game. Actual events that happen in the game's storyline are usually just kind of alluded to or glossed over. "And then the Autobots fought Trypticon and won.") But as for things like Prime being called Orion Pax in Exodus and Prime but just "Optimus" in WFC...yeah. (That said, I think WFC is supposed to be the most "mainstream" of the new universe, and definitely before Hasbro came out about this whole aligned continuity thing, they were definitely pitching it to people as a prequel/reboot of the G1 cartoon. Mainstreamers won't know that Optimus Prime was named Orion Pax before he was Optimus Prime, so he just becomes Optimus before that. Or...someone on WFC's writing team really didn't like Orion Pax. Or they didn't feel like having you play through half the game as "Orion Pax" instead of Optimus Prime, The Franchise Star.)
It's also kinda difficult to play as someone named "Pax" when you start out blasting the shit out of everything around you. ;)
It's that they're all made without any intended intention to tie into the greater TF story, they are produced to stand-alone with less restrictions as to their storylines.
I don't like the idea of there being a "greater TF story" in that sense, I think that's more restrictive than anything else. But then, I've been dying for a series with no Prime or Megatron for *years* and the comics are finally giving it to me...Imagine if Hasbro said IDW's continuities needed to align with this now. I'd definitely be out.
RID and the UT show that without a guiding framework, things can fall apart quite badly for a TF expression. Then again, Animated wasn't actively tied to the "greater story" and it did well, but BW was tied to the "greater story" and it also did well. I think though if you let your brand get too fractured and faceted, it risks not connecting with audiences at all.
Also, Hasbro is only a helper monkey on the UT, there are enough storylines and elements from those 3 shows to prove they were produced as much for a non-US audience, if not moreso.
Nah, Aaron Archer came up with all the concepts for the shows--the whole thing with the Minicons, the whole thing with Energon's whatever-the-fuck, and Cybertron's whole going-to-different-planets-to-get-the-keys thing. Takara just put it through the Japan Filter and messed up a lot of it.
I'm not talking about concepts, I'm talking about final product - the writing, the way it's expressed - that was clearly produced as much for Japan as it was for the US. The show was a co-production specifically for that, Takara's first co-production with Hasbro I believe, and they had it produced there and final writing was over there too. Look at the writers and directors on each episode, they're all Japanese names. Only Cybertron even had separate US writers involved.
I'm honestly thinking what happened was Hasbro had all these kind-of similar things that were already being worked on, and then haphazardly decided they were all supposed to fit together, and thusly wrote some vague rules. Or maybe the vague rules came first, and Hasbro has been lax about some of them. I dunno.
I'm quote confident it's the opposite, Hasbro with the movie realized they had a branding juggernaut that could finally take wings above the level it had been for the first 20 years - that of kids stuff - into the greater realm of general pop culture alongside Indiana Jones and Spider-Man and such, and wanted to take greater control of the brand's expression in the public eye -- keeping stuff like RID and the UT from happening again and confusing audiences. "Why is that robot fighting with that frog?"

I have no problem with Hasbro letting their separate entertainment vessels have artistic license, I think that's admirable after watching what too much control has done to the Star Wars expanded universe content, turning it bland, repetitive, angry, and uninspiring.
I've got this little mental version of it. To me, Prime is obviously meant to be the flagship of the canon, if such a thing can even be called a canon. Obviously whatever happens in Prime is how Hasbro sees it going down. If the novels or games deviate from this, it's on their head, I feel.
Really? I was seeing it more as Exodus and Exiles were the ones they had the first real baseline from, and Prime is the one that ill-fits those novels and the games and the MMO. Like, when we talk in this section of the forums, it's ONLY about the show product, the games have always ended up in Generations forum despite being supposedly this same continuity.
Shooter was also a stickler for typos and making sure things were spelled correctly. He was very concerned with comics reading well.
I know, almost every one of his blog posts to this day still hammer that home. His is the only blog I read regularly (although he's not posted in weeks now).
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Re: What do TF:P, WFC,TF:U and Exile have to do with each ot

Post by Dominic »

RID and the UT show that without a guiding framework, things can fall apart quite badly for a TF expression.
As much as I liked the UT, I admit that it could have been handled better.

But, RiD did exactly what it was supposed to do. It delivered kick-ass toys and the context was not trying to be ambitious. RiD did not so much lack focus as it just aimed low.
I think though if you let your brand get too fractured and faceted, it risks not connecting with audiences at all.
I partially agree here. But, TF a brand over-all does have enough staying power. And, without frequent reboots, the brand would become too weighted with its own baggage.

I know, almost every one of his blog posts to this day still hammer that home. His is the only blog I read regularly (although he's not posted in weeks now).
I should be reading that blog.


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-of course, Hasbro is now doing less than anybody to keep the franchise alive...
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Re: What do TF:P, WFC,TF:U and Exile have to do with each ot

Post by JediTricks »

Dominic wrote:
RID and the UT show that without a guiding framework, things can fall apart quite badly for a TF expression.
As much as I liked the UT, I admit that it could have been handled better.

But, RiD did exactly what it was supposed to do. It delivered kick-ass toys and the context was not trying to be ambitious. RiD did not so much lack focus as it just aimed low.
I didn't say it lacked focus, I said it lacked a framework, which it did. They made it for a very young Japanese audience, and then Hasbro slapped a cheap, seat-of-the-pants dub onto it to get it on the air as fast as possible. Also, RID only delivered a dozen or so original toys: OP, UM, the car brothers, the Rail Racer trio, the build team, Gigatron, and the Spy Changers.

I think though if you let your brand get too fractured and faceted, it risks not connecting with audiences at all.
I partially agree here. But, TF a brand over-all does have enough staying power. And, without frequent reboots, the brand would become too weighted with its own baggage.
I think even at that time it wasn't so easy to say it had staying power. It had just shifted back to Hasbro's management from Kenner's temporary control, and was years away from a central statement either from movies or comics or TV.
-of course, Hasbro is now doing less than anybody to keep the franchise alive...
Now now, that seems a little harsh. They're doing a lot, it's just sorta... incompetent flailing (Bot Shots, anyone?).
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