radio program about toys

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Dominic
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radio program about toys

Post by Dominic »

The local NPR affiliate ran a show about the differences between boys and girls toys. I figure it may spark some discussion.

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2013/12/11/holi ... girls-boys


My (semi-sarcastic) thoughts:

They spent way too much time talking about Lego, and not enough time on how much Lego sucks.

No joke, I winced when one of the guests mentioned having big pile of Lego on her kitchen table. From what she said, she not only buys her kids crap, but the sets are not even kept complete, which is only going to lead to worse projects.


Seriously, Lego sucks. It is impossible to get good results using Lego, even when using purpose moulded bits. How the hell is a kid supposed to be encouraged to be creative and industrious is they are not given the tools and material to produce something *good*?

When I was a kid, I gave up on creativity very early because I was unable to produce anything good. As an adult, I can look back on those times and understand that I was never given any qualitative guidance and did not have the tools needed to produce something good. At the time, when I was a kid? It was a crushing blow.

Even when I realized that I needed better tools and materials, it as a steep learning curve in terms of figuring out what those tools were and how to use them.


I wonder how many kids (male and female) have the drive to be creative and inventive crushed out of them simply because they are not given a chance (or even the guidance) needed to produce something worthwhile. How many kids simply conclude that they cannot create something, rather than that they simply need to learn and use the right tools?



(Seriously, I fucking hate Lego.)
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Shockwave
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Re: radio program about toys

Post by Shockwave »

Then you were doing it wrong. Lego is just fine, if you do it right. You just have to be creative in making something in that aesthetic. You may hate that aesthetic and that's fine, but the creativity problem is not the fault of the toys, it's the lack of imagination on the user. If you can't take a house and turn it into a spaceship using Legos then something's wrong with you. Is the house going to look like the house you live in, detail for detail? No. But that's not the point of Lego. It's like Mighty Muggs. I frickin' hate those things, mostly because I don't like the aesthetic, but the Transformers Mighty Muggs they made were accurate representations of those characters in that aesthetic and the same concept applies to Lego.
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Dominic
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Re: radio program about toys

Post by Dominic »

My point is that both the house and the space ship are going to look like crap.

Somebody can buy an Ertl or a Snap-Tite kit and make a *good* spaceship. They can customize that kit *if* they have the tools/resources on hand and have been given substantive instruction beyond "use your imagination!"

A damned popsicle stick house is likely to look better than something made of Lego bricks.
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Shockwave
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Re: radio program about toys

Post by Shockwave »

Dominic wrote:My point is that both the house and the space ship are going to look like crap.

Somebody can buy an Ertl or a Snap-Tite kit and make a *good* spaceship. They can customize that kit *if* they have the tools/resources on hand and have been given substantive instruction beyond "use your imagination!"

A damned popsicle stick house is likely to look better than something made of Lego bricks.
That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. Just understand that most people who play with Legos are going to disagree with you.

But it's also like saying that any 8-bit game made today is going to look like crap simply because one could make a game with better graphics. Sometimes that's not the point. The same concept applies to SD figures, bobbleheads, or any cutesy/chibified figures. It's about interpreting those things in those specific aesthetics and most Star Wars Lego sets look great within that aesthetic. That's my opinion, not everyone is obligated to agree with me.
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Almighty Unicron
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Re: radio program about toys

Post by Almighty Unicron »

Lego strikes a good balance of verisimilitude and fun. I had a variety of construction toys as a kid, K'nex, erectors, etc, but I always went back to legos. And then they came out with fuckin' mindstorm. That was my jam, yo.


Also who the fuck listens to radio? "Be sure to drink your ovaltine".
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JediTricks
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Re: radio program about toys

Post by JediTricks »

Holy shit, I totally was thinking about "be sure to drink your Ovaltine", and then I went and drank some!


LEGO is awesome, and the fact that the kids can freeform build is great, that was one of my favorite things to do back in the day. I loved the big sets that came with a ton of parts and an "idea book" that had a few pared down instructions and a lot of pictures of good models that could be built from the pieces in the box. They still do that sort of thing, although the line's reliance on minifigures and licenses and complete models does change its focus, and I've been trying to find a home for my 30 years of LEGO since I moved.

The challenge of building with LEGO is making something fun out of so little choices. Premade everything is ruining the fun, not everything has to be spoonfed to kids, there should be a learning process to building for one's own story that they make themselves.

You are such an OCD nut about "gotta have all the pieces" in every toy, as if play must fit what came in the box. Just because you didn't enjoy it doesn't mean other kids cannot, I remember parents would just buy toys at yard sales without any understanding of what was supposed to be there, and the kids still had fun with the toys.

That said, LEGO is a bad example of a "boys toy", it's a gender-neutral toy and there's really not much else like it right now.

Here are some knock-togethers I built back in the day, pardon the dust, these were just quick reference shots in case anything got "unbuilt" during the move (none did, because I build 'em good):
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See, that one's a camcorder, that one's a camera, that one's a phone, and they're doing "Speak no evil, See no evil, Hear no evil", get it?
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JediTricks
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Re: radio program about toys

Post by JediTricks »

I put features on all of these, btw. None have names though, oddly.

The red one is a re-purposed Star Wars Jedi Starfighter set, the canopy is hinged with flush seal, and the rear flaps fold up. Its design was intentionally made to be as sleek as the set would allow, the shortest height possible while still aesthetically pleasing and fully sealing.

The little yellow one is actually a scout shuttle for a larger one I chose to scrap, the little ship was my challenge to build the smallest sealed ship possible that can still open, it has a hinge-back opening roof and a 2x1 smooth control surface inside the window, the rear engines hinge all the way around to the sides which looks slick.

The first black one is actually meant to be a speedboat/submarine, the rear of the cockpit is on rails (with fold-up locks) for submarine mode, and the cockpit interior has a lower seat with control sticks and display; with the cockpit slid open there's an upper control surface and the pilot sits up high with his head around the canopy top. The rear side guns rotate, and the reason there's an image of the underside is because the center pulls down to reveal a little weapons drone docked inside.

The second black one is a starfighter, it has forward and rear guns plus gullwings with guns, and the wings fold up. The rear gunner seat rotates around to allow access.

Anyway, you might look at them and think they look like garbage, although the first and third are I think really slick-looking designs if I do say so myself, but I had more fun building and imagining what each concept's purpose was than any toy I could buy or any model kit LEGO could come up with.
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See, that one's a camcorder, that one's a camera, that one's a phone, and they're doing "Speak no evil, See no evil, Hear no evil", get it?
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Dominic
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Re: radio program about toys

Post by Dominic »

But, they all still look like Legos, complete with obvious little "brick bumps". And, I recall you calling me out for my Kre-O customs not so long ago. So it is kind of odd to hear you defending Lego on the basis of its potential for making custom sets.

I have never, at any point in my life been able to make something out of Lego that did not make feel that I had wasted my time. (And, as a kid, this was crushing.) When I got older, I would see custom projects in Wizard (later Toy Fair) magazine or in various gaming magazines. *Those* were impressive. They looked like what they were supposed to be evocative of. The guys who made them not only had the right tools, they had the skills to use those tools for something definite.
I loved the big sets that came with a ton of parts and an "idea book" that had a few pared down instructions and a lot of pictures of good models that could be built from the pieces in the box.
I tried those. I always cycled through at least a few of the official models....and was never happy. Even putting aside the figures (stiff and under-detailed even for 25+ years ago), the results of the building were always lacking. As a kid, I knew that I would not be as good as the adults who wrote the instructions, so my stuff was not likely to be as "good" as the official stuff. And, I was meticulous about following the instructions and thus knew that the poor results were not my fault. (The sets were only going to look so good.)

This was compounded when I was about 10 or 11, and started making regular (if somewhat clandestine) trips to the local hobby shop. It was only 15 minutes from home. But, it was just far enough and required crossing two major streets, meaning that I was not guaranteed to get clearance from my parents. The stuff on display there was amazing. (It still impresses me to this day.) Lead gaming figures were about the same scale as Lego figures, but they looked better than full sized action figures. The play sets? They were comparable in price to Lego figures, but they looked incomparably superior.

My custom Kre-O are some of the least of my recent work. Yeah, they are quick and easy. But, they are hardly my best. I may have cobbled together an IDW inspired Kreon Devastator. But, all it really did was remind me that I did not have a *good* IDW Devastator. Frankly, I found it to be a poor enough substitute that I broke it back down and sent the parts off to Shockwave.

(One of the reasons that I cut back on customizing of late is that I do not have the time or money to do it right. I am considering buying an extra Trailbreaker and Hoist so that I can make Flatline once my situation stabilizes a bit. But, for now, it ain't gonna happen.)

Premade everything is ruining the fun, not everything has to be spoonfed to kids, there should be a learning process to building for one's own story that they make themselves.
Agreed.

Eventually, I got started on something from that hobby shop. It was a wolf-drawn goblin cart. (It think it was made by GW. But, I cannot be sure.)

My results were mixed. I had 2 or 3 brands of paint, (including *shudder* Testors, whose most useful product seems to be a paint remover). My brushes ranged in quality and were mostly too big. (I learned through experience and later conversations that there was a reason for variable brush sizes.) Most of the insights I gained from this project were learned through experience....because nobody fucking told me how to do it. All things considered, the results were pretty good considering that I was 12 and had no experience with that sort of project. But, the results would have been better (and I would have learned more) had I had some practical guidance before hand.

After a few more years of (expensive for my then age) trial and error, I gave up on customizing because it was just too disappointing. (Even after I started learning about techniques, I still had to practice them.) Years of frustration caused by building with Lego or drawing with crayond (impossible to draw clean lines with) nearly snuffed out any drive for creativity or industry that I had.

But, I learned to respect the guys who could put a model together well, to say nothing of the guys who could kit-bash (even if I did not know the term).

I remember parents would just buy toys at yard sales without any understanding of what was supposed to be there, and the kids still had fun with the toys.
I was always good about spotting where a part was missing, even if I could not figure out what the part was.



That said, LEGO is a bad example of a "boys toy", it's a gender-neutral toy and there's really not much else like it right now.
One of the points from the broadcast was that Lego is splitting by gender. Their "default" (the city or space sets, to say nothing of their licenses) are targeted towards boys, and there is a dedicated sub-line for girls.

Also who the fuck listens to radio? "Be sure to drink your ovaltine".
It makes for good background noise while I am doing something on a computer. And, I generally wake up to it.
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Shockwave
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Re: radio program about toys

Post by Shockwave »

Well that explains why there was so much there. I thought I'd be getting a few heads and some random bricks, but there was a whole Devastator and Bruticus as well as parts from other bots (I think I even made a complete Scourge). On the upside, they did go to someone who is enjoying them as I do find them fun to fiddle with.

As for creativity, by the time I got my hands on Legos, I'd already been plenty creative, practicing techniques with things like colored pensils, paints and yes, even crayons and markers. I was always one of those kids that would color the coloring books inside the lines in the colors they appeared in the cartoon/toy. And I would also draw original artwork. Customizing toys wasn't something I'd even thought about until adulthood and made toy collecting that much more enjoyable as a hobby.
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Re: radio program about toys

Post by Dominic »

Well, the Devastator was not complete. I know that I kept one or two of the heads from that set for customizing. But, even the "successful" custom Kreons are only so rewarding.
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