Comics are Awesome III

[andersonh1]

I read it. Nice how it blows away "Convergence" (which established that the original "Crisis on Infinite Earths" never happened) and.... Yeah, Johns really thought this through.

Just reading between the lines, I think plans at DC changed rather quickly after Convergence. The plan was to get old readers back with that filler series, then get them to stay for DC You. When sales on that began to tank very quickly, they had to figure out another direction fast. Note that both Titans Hunt and Lois and Clark were solicited as ongoings, then 12 issues, then 8, all before there had even been enough time to really look at sales. I think everything's been up in the air for most of the past year. It's possible that since Didio and Lee's New 52 fizzled, tptb decided to give Johns a shot at it instead. And here we are.

But you're right that what was shown in flashbacks is still largely the post-Crisis universe. Wally's parents, for example, were much more generic and "good parents" pre-Crisis, but all that changed afterwards. And then there's the scene from Crisis 12, which the artwork even copies from the Perez original, where Wally puts on Barry's costume and takes his identity. So yeah, not everything about Crisis was erased... but having it changed off-panel was kind of a lame idea anyway. The seminal event for DC Comics is erased, and we don't even get to see it? I don't blame Johns for just ignoring that.

I like how Wally's memories are of the pre/post-Crisis DC, while Barry's are of the New 52. That was a nice touch. Wally remembers the original Teen Titans from the 60s, while Barry remembers the Titans Hunt version.

[Dominic]

We know that "Convergence" changed just by reading the last issue of "Convergence". DC got better buzz and reception on "Convergence" than on anything they had done for several years. The one definitive thing was that "Crisis on Infinite Earths" had been prevented. But, now, with "Rebirth", CoIE might be back on the table.

I tend to think that DC's plan after "Convergence" was to muddy the water up as much as possible, letting them use as much old stuff as they could. But, now, they have to start making decisions.

(I am still sore about the new 52 multiverse though. I really wanted follow-up to "Master Men".)

[Sparky Prime]

(I am still sore about the new 52 multiverse though. I really wanted follow-up to "Master Men".)

Still don't see why you seem to think this discounts the New 52 Multiverse when nothing suggests they're dropping that...

[Shockwave]

Indeed, it seems like they're keeping everything for everybody. Not unlike what I was suggesting a few pages back. I'm cautiously optimistic, but if this actually sticks for any length of time, I might be in for this.

[Sparky Prime]

So Rebirth...

It's interesting to see at the start of the issue as Wally reflects on his history, he sees history as we know it. Everything from "Crisis on Infinite Earths" to "Flashpoint". But at the end of the issue, when Barry remembers history, the history he knows is still of the New 52, only with Wally a part of it with the forgotten original Teen Titans of the New 52. It's going to get a bit confusing with two character's named Wally West now. But I like that they made them cousins who both just happened to have been named after their Great-Grandfather, allowing them to have both the new Wally and the original. Really love how this issue shows off the whole concept of legacy is back in the DCU with so many heroes and their protegee's appearing. Great to see the Aqualad (Jackson) back. It was dumb they introduced in him with Brightest Day, and then they promptly forgot about him when the New 52 launched. I recall the writer of the Teen Titans at the launch had said he had plans to include him, but it never happened. Seeing Pandora on the run and then exploding really hammers in the message that they messed up with the New 52. Still not sure how exactly "Watchmen" will fit into it, given they don't really go much into that in this issue.

Overall, I really enjoyed this book. It'll be great to see where they take this.

[andersonh1]

Death of Rorshach/Death of Pandora.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/05/26/ ... e-gibbons/

[Dominic]

till not sure how exactly "Watchmen" will fit into it, given they don't really go much into that in this issue.

If I (and a number of other people) read it right, current DC (and possible the alternate worlds described in "Multiversity") is the result of Manhattan tinkering with reality, likely the creation he was talking about at the end of "Watchmen". When time re-combobulated at the end of "Flashpoint", Manhattan influenced the process, resulting in the flawed new universe.

The idea is probably going to be that Manhattan (hailing from a harder and more cynical world) made the current DC universe too hard and cynical.


My concern over "Master Men" depends on two things. How will DC handled their alternate worlds after this shake-up? And, how hard will DC push the idea of comics being positive and sunny? (A series focusing on a guilt-burdened Nazi Superman who fights a rabid Uncle Sam is not going to match that editorial zeitgeist.)



And, I saw "X-Men: Apocalypse".

It is better than Batman/superman. Not as good as "Captain America: Civil War".

"X-Men: Apocalypse" is....generic. It has some good parts. Some missed marks. But, it has all of the story beats of a summer action movie, complete with "laugh line here". (One or two of them were funny, if only because of the actors selling them. And, I am guessing there was at least one derptastic set-piece that was removed.) There are a few very contrived scenes. (

Spoiler

McTaggert just happens to be in Cairo the day that Apocalypse wakes up.....

)

The movie has enough cliche beats that I am unsure why it felt the need to telegraph a cliche that it did not use (even if somebody clearly wanted to. (

Spoiler

Several characters go to the movies, and see "Return of the Jedi". Later, the movie teases, and specifically avoids, having Quicksilver redeem Magneto.

)

The "redeem the monster" scenes are iffy. The above mentioned

Spoiler

scene with Magneto

is annoying for

Spoiler

apparently congratulating itself on not using a cliche

, but is otherwise okay. If nothing else,

Spoiler

Magneto's

misdeeds are mitigated

Spoiler

by the fact he was having an exceptionally bad day

.

But, the movie commits a common mistake to licensed films with another "monster gets redeemed" scene. It not only assumes that the audience knows who and what the characters are, it assumes that the characters themselves know how the movie is supposed to end. (

Spoiler

Objectively, Storm switching sides at the end makes her look worse. She waits until Apocalypse is more or less defeated before turning on him. And, the X-Men are okay with this....because Storm is supposed to be an X-Man or something.

) Such are the benefits enjoyed by characters with 4 decades of history and branding.

(Say what one will about Bay. But, the scene where Optimus shot Sentinel and gutted Megatron should not have been exceptional. Sometimes, saying "sorry" ain't gonna cut it.)


The bad movie physics are more than I am willing to tolerate. (

Spoiler

Magneto's antics should have blown away every piece of electronics on the planet.

)


Worth sitting through, but do not make time for it.

[Sparky Prime]

If I (and a number of other people) read it right, current DC (and possible the alternate worlds described in "Multiversity") is the result of Manhattan tinkering with reality, likely the creation he was talking about at the end of "Watchmen". When time re-combobulated at the end of "Flashpoint", Manhattan influenced the process, resulting in the flawed new universe.

That's not what I meant. The obvious implication is that Dr. Manhattan has been tinkering with reality, having stolen 10 years from the DCU, and as Wally suggests, may have been tampering with events a lot longer than just since "Flashpoint". But what I'm talking about is more to do with how the Watchmen characters fit into the DCU now that there is that connection. Is the DCU something Dr. Manhattan created, or did he discover the reality and decided to experiment with it? Or could the Watchmen characters have been a part of the DCU originally and somehow removed themselves from it? That's not something this story touched upon, the nature of the relationship between Watchmen and the DCU.

My concern over "Master Men" depends on two things. How will DC handled their alternate worlds after this shake-up? And, how hard will DC push the idea of comics being positive and sunny? (A series focusing on a guilt-burdened Nazi Superman who fights a rabid Uncle Sam is not going to match that editorial zeitgeist.)

That's the thing about alternate reality stories though... Being their own self contained universes, they're not concerned with the editorial zeitgeist of the mainline. That's kinda the point to why they had a multiverse in the first place. They can do things in other universes they couldn't do in the mainline. And as far as we know, the multiverse isn't being affected with this shake up. Earth 2 is continuing despite the original JSA returning to the mainline.

[andersonh1]

Superman Rebirth #1 preview: http://comicvine.gamespot.com/articles/ ... 00-155541/

Not a lot to go on yet, apart from enjoying Doug Mahnke's artwork, but I like the fact that Superman expects this world's Superman to come back, just like he did. Of course we now know this isn't another Earth at all, so history isn't likely to repeat itself. I'm guessing it will be seeing Lex Luthor in the Superman armor that will provoke post-Crisis Superman into putting on the blue and red suit again and going public.

[andersonh1]

Here's a very good interview with Geoff Johns about Rebirth and the process leading up to it, and a couple of things jumped out at me as fairly revealing.

https://www.yahoo.com/movies/rebirth-ge ... 33866.html

#1: Didio and Lee have no new ideas, apparently. just start over with a new #1 for everything.

But how it came about - Dan [Didio, DC co-publisher] and Jim said that they wanted to stop everything at issue 52 and restart all the titles again, and my first reaction was probably everyone's reaction: Why? Why do that beyond having a new No. 1? Dan said that he wanted to call it Rebirth, and I said, "Woah woah woah. Let me sit with this and come back with you."

Well, Rebirth is yours. You're the one who wrote Green Lantern: Rebirth, and Flash: Rebirth, after all. You basically invented the brand for the company.

#2:This comment pretty much sums up how I felt about all of DC after the New 52.

Very, but at the same time, what happened with the New 52 was that a brick wall had been built between that and everything that had happened before. In my mind, it was like a brick wall, and it felt like, say, the version I read of Raven wasn't the Raven I'm reading now. It felt like the emotional connection I had with the character broke. I'll tell you a character specifically, and I'll be candid about it: Superboy, Connor Kent.

One of my favorite characters of all time, and I had a great time writing him in Teen Titans, and I loved writing him in his solo run [in Adventure Comics]. They reintroduced him in the New 52 and he was so different, so vastly changed, that I couldn't connect with the book that well. The emotional tie just severed, and it didn't sever in the way that made me angry, it was worse than that: I had apathy for it. I didn't care anymore.