Does anyone plan of buying the SWTF Darthvader 4 changer toy

[Dominic]

Aside from "not being the originals", what is wrong with the prequels?


Dom

[Onslaught Six]

Honestly, I'm going to say that most of the designs are just plain uninspired and ehh. Seriously, the visual style of the prequels is what I dislike the most. Also, the way Anakin developed just kind of made him whiny instead of awesome.

Also, six words. "She's lost the will to live!" Yeah okay.

[Gomess]

Well, forgive my lack of big words, but to put it simply, they're incredibly boring. The pacing is jerky, the set pieces are... crap... (the pod race, Baby Anakin Flies a Plane, Yoda vs. Dracula and Emo Anakin on Lava World spring to mind) mostly because they lack any kind of character.

Yeah, the characterisation was really a big flaw... I dunno if Natalie Portman *always* acts like that, but bloo-dy hell. Instant interest killer. She really lit up those gripping senate 'scenes'. It was like A Few Good Men up in here. Then there was Darth Maul, pitted as the next big thing, and only had one line. Yay.

And Qui.. Gon.. Jin? I'm not gonna look it up. Liam Neeson. Yeah, his character was a waste of space. The protagonist's teacher's teacher? Ahuh. Just another white human who happens to be a main character in a movie set in a galaxy far, far away. And Anakin's "development" is incredibly stilted and at times misleading. Why do they set him up as a mechanical genius? Because he's going to swear vengeance for his mother and girlfriend by letting someone *else* turn him into a cyborg?

Also they weren't fun.

The shiny, overused CG gave me a headache.

And, yes, Jar-Jar really WAS that offensive.

EDIT: I apologise in advance for not being able to talk eloquently about this. I've got a cold, I've only seen these movies once, and I'm not a Star Wars fan so I couldn't tell you how they could've made them better. Well, maybe I could. Don't have Yoda fight with a lightsaber, for a start.

[Onslaught Six]

She really lit up those gripping senate 'scenes'. It was like A Few Good Men up in here.

I once saw someone describe the original trilogy as an epic space adventure about saving the world, while the prequel trilogy is about a bunch of guys not wanting to pay their taxes.

Then there was Darth Maul, pitted as the next big thing, and only had one line. Yay.

You know, I love Darth Maul, I don't care, because he really was hyped to be awesome and then they just kill him off. Forget "Count Dooku" (one of the worst character names ever), Maul should have been the main villain in both films.

And Qui.. Gon.. Jin? I'm not gonna look it up. Liam Neeson. Yeah, his character was a waste of space. The protagonist's teacher's teacher? Ahuh. Just another white human who happens to be a main character in a movie set in a galaxy far, far away.

I didn't mind Qui-Gon, but that's me. I like to think the whole midichlorians thing is him BSing, though, like trying to tell a small child his theory about God.

As for the "white human" bit, well, we did get Mace Windu. That's the one thing, the original Clone Wars series was far and away the coolest part of the prequel trilogy. Tartakovsky took those characters and made them all far more badass than Lucas (or the guys doing the new Clone Wars series) ever did. I saw that and expected Greivous to be a serious threat in Revenge of the Sith, but nope. He just coughs a lot, is a pussy and dies in the first few minutes.

And Anakin's "development" is incredibly stilted and at times misleading. Why do they set him up as a mechanical genius? Because he's going to swear vengeance for his mother and girlfriend by letting someone *else* turn him into a cyborg?

Ahahaha, oh wow I never even thought of this.

To be fair, making him a good pilot was an important thing since Vader was a good pilot and Obi-Wan specifically says to Luke, "You know, your dad was a good pilot."

[Gomess]

To be fair, making him a good pilot was an important thing since Vader was a good pilot and Obi-Wan specifically says to Luke, "You know, your dad was a good pilot."

To be EXTRA fair, Dom specified we weren't to compare them to the original films. ;] But point taken, I'm always willing to learn.

Also, if Darth Maul, Amidala and Qui-Gon have *zero* personality, then Mace Windu must be in the minuses. I forgot he even existed. It's nice that, knowing they couldn't have the original movies' token black guy, they took the time to construct a charismatic and attention-grabbing new one. Gawd, at least Lando had some sort of personal narrative. OOPS, shouldn't compare to the old ones, sorry! =3

[Dominic]

Also, the way Anakin developed just kind of made him whiny instead of awesome.

That is the thing, Anakin was *meant8 to be whiny. Yes, Anakin is an ass. He was supposed to be. Lucas wanted Anakin to be a jack-ass. And, it he gave us that. It is not about what you wanted Vader to be based on ~20 years of foggy memories.

the set pieces are... crap...

The asteroid filed chase in Episode 5 was fucking tedious as hell. (Ohohoho, space worm!) What about the Death Star infiltration from 4? Set pieces in general are crap. Anakin v/s Kenobi was actually a good fight, and it was important to the movie.

Yoda vs. Dracula

The complaints about Yoda fighting are some of the most obviously transparent "they changed it from what I remember" complaints about the prequels. (The fight between Yoda and Sidious in the senate chambers is probably the the most important in the prequels.)

Yeah, his character was a waste of space. The protagonist's teacher's teacher? Ahuh.

Given that lineage/legacy is a huge theme in "Star Wars", it makes sense to show the teacher's teacher.

It's nice that, knowing they couldn't have the original movies' token black guy

You obsess about race in your fiction more than anyone I know. Seriously.


Dom
-not sure what "Star Wars" toyhacks are called.

[Gomess]

The complaints about Yoda fighting are some of the most obviously transparent "they changed it from what I remember" complaints about the prequels.

Uh... Remember who you're talking to. I don't give a crap about "what I remember". I don't *like* Star Wars. The fight had zero build-up, zero meaning, and predictable choreography. Oh, the little guy does flips! I get it. Like that other tiny-but-agile character from every other work of fiction ever. Christopher Lee fighting a CG muppet should've been way more fun than that was. Yoda seemed more like the kind of character to fight without weapons, too, even just based on his appearances in the first two prequels.

You obsess about race in your fiction more than anyone I know. Seriously.

Representation is part of what I do for a living, and something I've always cared about. I don't call you out on your obsession with shouting down "toyhacks" by using TEH BLITHERING MANCHILD TYPEFACE!!!11!1, so why call me out on my obsession with race? Seems like a douchey thing to bring up at the end of an otherwise reasonable post.

[Dominic]

The fight had zero build-up, zero meaning, and predictable choreography.

What do you mean it had zero build up and meaning?

That scene was Yoda realizing that his student had gone and made a heel turn. Saying it had predictable choreography is like saying that a story with standard narrative structure is predictable.

Seems like a douchey thing to bring up at the end of an otherwise reasonable post.

It came out a bit more testily than I wanted it to. But, you do focus way more on race than is necessary. And, it really does not help.

When I am reading/watching something, (or, by some miracle, trying to write something), the last thing I want to do is count beans. I do not care where somebody's ancestors were from in real life. And, unless it is relevant to the story, I care even less in fiction.

Bean counting is why Terry was whitened up in the "Spawn" movie. Apparently, there were too many blacks in the movie for the studio's liking. And, they were really nervous about how well (cough*white*cough) audiences would handle a black man being portrayed as a responsible father and loving husband. (This was, at the very least, the assumption of racism. I was offended by how the studios thought I and people who like like me would react to the character to portrayed as he was in the source material the movie was drawn from.) Bean counting is also why we get foolish marketing ploys like making Heimdall black. (Because, uh, apparently there were black norse gods?) Apparently, studio execs are thinking that having too many white guys in a movie is also bad.

Bean counting is why comic readers had to sit through ~20 years of Luke "Sweet Christmas" Cage, a character who was only a step removed from being a black-face parody. (Yeah, good things have been written using Luke Cage since then. But, that is despite, not because of, the character's origins in the 70s.)


Gomess, you may work in marketing(?). And, yeah, there are segments of the market that are racist. But, calling out a movie/novel/cartoon/whatever for not counting the beans is arguably a balkanizing act in and of itself.


Dom
-notes that "balkanizing" is arguably a slur, but is often used in polite company.

[Gomess]

What do you mean it had zero build up and meaning?

"Zero build up" can't really be explained any more concisely. There was no suspense. As for its meaning, as far as I was concerned, it didn't matter whether Yoda or Dooku won. What was at stake? Maybe I missed something. Just seemed like a grudge match.

Saying it had predictable choreography is like saying that a story with standard narrative structure is predictable.

Nnno it isn't. Standard narrative structure is faaar more widespread than the Agile Midget Warrior cliche. My main problem is just that Yoda used a lightsaber. I thought we were gonna see some real Jedi Mind Trickery. Whatevs.

But, you do focus way more on race than is necessary. When I am reading/watching something, the last thing I want to do is count beans.

Well, you don't get to decide what's "necessary" in a conversation. If you think I bring up racism too much, fair enough, just put it that way. There's no need to frame it like I'm breaking the Preapproved Rules of TFViews Discourse. Racism has been more of a factor in my life than I'd like it to be. I'm sure if we were discussing rehoming dogs, you'd have more to say than I would, but I'd never tell you that you're saying "too much". Yeah, I'm a bean counter. We both have our flaws, but hopefully we can agree to disagree when it comes to more personal stuff like this.

marketing(?)

I'm an evaluator for a media company. Representation in Media was also my main module in my Media Studies Degree, and I was a bit of a firebrand back then too. Arguing with lecturers is a good way to determine who your friends are, I'll tell you whut. I've gotten much better at reining it in, believe it or not!

Oh, hey, big question: "Always two, there are; master, and apprentice". Can someone write out a little Sith Pairs Timeline for me so I understand who these pairs were throughout all six movies? I don't get it.

[Gomess]

Ok, I'll have a go:

Darth Maul under Darth... Tyrannus?

Then Darth Maul dies, so it's Darth... Tyrannus... under Darth... Sidious...?

Then Darth Tyrannus dies, so it's Darth Vader under Darth Sidious?

no, i'm confused already =/