Deviations (IDW's themed cross-over)

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Re: Deviations (IDW's themed cross-over)

Postby andersonh1 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:12 pm

Full review:

In theory, it's a nice idea to take the Transformers movie and run with an alternate series of events to see what happens. If only Hot Rod hadn't gotten in the way.... Optimus Prime would have won that fight, right?

In this version of events, Kup doesn't just tell Hot Rod to stay out of the way, he grabs him to make sure that he does, so Optimus takes that last shot and kills Megatron after Megatron had fired at him. Starscream mocks his fallen leader and leads the Decepticons on a retreat using Astrotrain as a transport. It's much the same as the move plotline. The wounded Decepticons are cast out, but without Megatron to bargain for them, they are consumed by Unicron. All well and good, since this is the point where the first half of the movie featuring the older G1 characters ends, and the second half kicks off.

And I guess what I would expect from a "what if" story where Optimus survived is an exploration of what that would mean. But we dont' really get that. The book continues to follow the plotline of the movie with some changes here and there, with bad characterization of the G1 characters, and pointless rabbit trails to Quintessa and Junkion, neither of which are necessary to the plot. And all the nonsense about Hot Rod seeing the "true" timeline where Optimus died and he inherited the Matrix... what is the point? In a universe of infinite possibilities, why is one path any more valid than another? It's basically just a plot contrivance so that Hot Rod takes the Matrix at the end and is able to save Optimus from "Megascream", and using the Matrix to destroy Unicron only to die in the explosion.

It' just seems to me that if they were going to tell an alternate version of events that they should really have gone for it, and really shaken things up. The writer hews too close to the plot of the movie, with the result that the whole thing feels too much like the original. As much as I enjoy this version of the characters, it does feel like a wasted exercise.

Add to that I feel ripped off... I'm quite sure that extra dollar I paid for the book is because of all the ad space for IDW's regular Transformers series in the back. Maybe the last fifth of the book is ads... I don't know without counting pages, and I can't be bothered.

Dom said it felt like a Fun Publications comic. Yeah, I agree. That's exactly what it feels like. It should have been much better than it was.
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Re: Deviations (IDW's themed cross-over)

Postby Dominic » Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:11 pm

Sparky, do you mean "In Darkest Night", where Batman got a power ring? Either way, fair point. DC later made that the basis for a " mash-up heroes" world. (Mash-up being the stupid gimmick.).


As for "Deviations", the " Reveal the Shield" pack-in was better.
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Re: Deviations (IDW's themed cross-over)

Postby Sparky Prime » Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:27 pm

Dominic wrote:Sparky, do you mean "In Darkest Night", where Batman got a power ring?

No, that's another story with the same basic idea, only with Batman. The story I was referring to was definitely Superman who got a power ring. Actually, come to think of it, they did a couple Elseworld stories where Superman became a Green Lantern... One is "Superman Last Son of Earth". And another I know of, Superman was sent to Oa rather than Earth, but I don't know what the title of that one is.
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Re: Deviations (IDW's themed cross-over)

Postby Shockwave » Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:11 pm

I heard there was also a JLA/Avengers crossover where Superman had Thor's Hammer, Captain America's shield and a Green Lantern ring.
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Re: Deviations (IDW's themed cross-over)

Postby Dominic » Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:13 pm

"Avengers v/s Justice League" was something else entirely. It was written by Busiek.

The reason for the initial fight being rooted to basic differences between Marvel and DC (Marvel's heroes are not as trusted by people as as DC's, leading to the obligatory misunderstanding) was good. But, there is also plenty of fannish stuff in there as well.
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Re: Deviations (IDW's themed cross-over)

Postby Shockwave » Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:57 pm

It was still a thing that happened and still counts as a time when Superman had the Green Lantern ring. Y'know, if we're just counting times he had the ring.
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Re: Deviations (IDW's themed cross-over)

Postby Sparky Prime » Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:47 pm

Shockwave wrote:I heard there was also a JLA/Avengers crossover where Superman had Thor's Hammer, Captain America's shield and a Green Lantern ring.

You're right about the shield and hammer... But he didn't wear a Green Lantern ring in that mini-series.

Dominic wrote:The reason for the initial fight being rooted to basic differences between Marvel and DC (Marvel's heroes are not as trusted by people as as DC's, leading to the obligatory misunderstanding) was good. But, there is also plenty of fannish stuff in there as well.

I'd have to say the reason for the initial fight was because the Grandmaster and Metron were pitting the heroes against one another to collect various powerful artifacts from both universes as a means to stop Krona... The differences between Marvel and DC were noted, and Batman ended up beating up the Punisher as a result, but otherwise both sides avoided conflict because they didn't know how things worked in each others universe.
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Re: Deviations (IDW's themed cross-over)

Postby Shockwave » Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:27 am

Ok, so I picked this up yesterday after getting new glasses. I more or less enjoyed it, with a few exceptions. I didn't like how they kept berating Hot Rod. It just felt so mean spirited. I get that it showed his reckless side, but I think they could have done it better without literally everyone around him calling him stupid. I also felt like the conversation between Starscream and Unicron felt forced and unnatural. Like it would have been better if it had gone more like the original conversation between Megatron and Unicron. And Megascream? Yeah, he probably could have picked a better name. And I also feel like there should have been more design differences between his original version and the upgraded design. Minor nitpicks, but problems none the less. As for the art, I liked it. It felt like I was watching an alternate version of the movie, so they at least succeeded in that. I like the concept and I would actually like to see them continue with "Deviations" from other common events in the TF universe. Maybe one where the Ark lands on Earth intact rather than crashes. Or maybe they don't land on Earth at all. The possibilities for this are endless.
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Re: Deviations (IDW's themed cross-over)

Postby Dominic » Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:52 pm

Execution matters as much as the concept. And, IDW consistently botches the execution on this sort of thing. "Hearts of Steel" had potential, but it was inexcusably bad. I am all for letting the idea do the heavy lifting. But, execution matters.

The differences between Marvel and DC were noted, and Batman ended up beating up the Punisher as a result, but otherwise both sides avoided conflict because they didn't know how things worked in each others universe.


The initial fight was triggered by the DC characters noticing how 616 natives were more afraid of the 616 heroes (a Marvel cliche) than DC natives were of DC heroes (the latter being more trusted by the public).
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Re: Deviations (IDW's themed cross-over)

Postby Sparky Prime » Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:29 pm

Shockwave wrote:And Megascream? Yeah, he probably could have picked a better name. And I also feel like there should have been more design differences between his original version and the upgraded design.

Yeah, I'd have to agree. When the Decepticons in the movie were upgraded by Unicron, they essentially became all new bots. Why didn't that happen in this story?

I like the concept and I would actually like to see them continue with "Deviations" from other common events in the TF universe. Maybe one where the Ark lands on Earth intact rather than crashes. Or maybe they don't land on Earth at all. The possibilities for this are endless.

Yeah, I'd like to see some more "What if" outcomes as well. I'd kinda like to see what might have happened if the Maximals hadn't been able to save Optimus Prime's life for example.

Dominic wrote:The initial fight was triggered by the DC characters noticing how 616 natives were more afraid of the 616 heroes (a Marvel cliche) than DC natives were of DC heroes (the latter being more trusted by the public).

The initial fight was the result of Grandmaster and Metron pitting the heroes against one another in their quest to collect various powerful objects from both universes. The heroes noted the differences between the universes prior to meeting each other, which didn't help their initial perceptions of each other, but that wasn't what triggered the fight at all. It was all a part of Grandmaster's plan to outwit Krona, and thus the heroes had been manipulated to come into conflict with each other accordingly. It's even pointed out by their teammates that Captain America and Superman's behavior in the moments leading up to the fight isn't how they'd normally act. Ultimately, it was Thor who starts the fight, declaring the DC heroes are invading their realm and are collecting powerful weapons, while accusing the Avengers of being malefactors. As the fight begins, Grandmaster notes it's begun and while they don't know it, they're playing a game of his devising, confirming he's manipulated things to result in this conflict between the heroes.
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