TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Ancillary, non-main-line stuff. Star Wars TF, Speed Stars, Titanium Series, Robot Heroes, that sort of thing. They're kinda neat, but we all know they're not really that important. Admit it, you know it's true.

Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Postby JediTricks » Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:05 pm

BWprowl wrote:
andersonh1 wrote:Not this Transformers fan, but then that's due to a lack of interest in GI Joe rather than being put off by the art. It's so deliberately patterned after early Marvel TF that it's an obvious homage, so that wouldn't put me off by itself.

I'm not reading it either (not just because of a disinterest in GI Joe but also because the far-backwards-looking intent of the series is pretty much the opposite of what I want in TF stories), but I will point out that Re-Generation 1 nicely paid homage to Marvel G1's art without looking like a coloring book.
Be fair, the inking on TF vs GI Joe is far worse than you'd get in a coloring book... on purpose.

Perhaps the intent is to shock fans while making newcomers feel uninhibited by the art, letting the art be a throwback to shoddiness so that it doesn't say "I'm much more important than the story", minimizing the intent. Or maybe he's just jacking off trying to abuse the pretenses of art, but I don't get that feeling, this may be his lazy doodling but it's his lazy doodling that puts 30 unique characters and vehicles and settings into a single panel without fear while trying to pay homage to his and Barber's experiences with classic comics during childhood.
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Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Postby andersonh1 » Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:05 pm

BWprowl wrote:
andersonh1 wrote:Not this Transformers fan, but then that's due to a lack of interest in GI Joe rather than being put off by the art. It's so deliberately patterned after early Marvel TF that it's an obvious homage, so that wouldn't put me off by itself.

I'm not reading it either (not just because of a disinterest in GI Joe but also because the far-backwards-looking intent of the series is pretty much the opposite of what I want in TF stories), but I will point out that Re-Generation 1 nicely paid homage to Marvel G1's art without looking like a coloring book.


That's why I specified early Marvel, the really rough art from some of the single digit issues. Later Marvel was much improved artwise. But Shockwave thinks it's worse than that early art, and it may well be. I haven't picked up the books, so I'm judging based on cover art and what I've seen online.
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Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Postby JediTricks » Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:06 pm

andersonh1 wrote:
BWprowl wrote:
andersonh1 wrote:Not this Transformers fan, but then that's due to a lack of interest in GI Joe rather than being put off by the art. It's so deliberately patterned after early Marvel TF that it's an obvious homage, so that wouldn't put me off by itself.

I'm not reading it either (not just because of a disinterest in GI Joe but also because the far-backwards-looking intent of the series is pretty much the opposite of what I want in TF stories), but I will point out that Re-Generation 1 nicely paid homage to Marvel G1's art without looking like a coloring book.


That's why I specified early Marvel, the really rough art from some of the single digit issues. Later Marvel was much improved artwise. But Shockwave thinks it's worse than that early art, and it may well be. I haven't picked up the books, so I'm judging based on cover art and what I've seen online.
TWINSIES! We posted at the same time.
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Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Postby BWprowl » Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:24 pm

JediTricks wrote:this may be his lazy doodling but it's his lazy doodling that puts 30 unique characters and vehicles and settings into a single panel without fear while trying to pay homage to his and Barber's experiences with classic comics during childhood.

Hey, George Perez could do that and actually make it look good, but admittedly, not a lot of artists are George Perez.

And maybe I already mentioned this, but FunPub's 'Shattered Expectations' April Fool's comic did pretty much everything this comic is apparently trying to do, did it only three pages, and was funnier and looked better doing it.
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Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Postby Dominic » Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:13 am

Prowl nailed it.

Or maybe he's just jacking off trying to abuse the pretenses of art, but I don't get that feeling, this may be his lazy doodling but it's his lazy doodling that puts 30 unique characters and vehicles and settings into a single panel without fear while trying to pay homage to his and Barber's experiences with classic comics during childhood.


The only idea this book has is to show how shitty TF and Joe are. You yourself called it hipster fodder a few months back, and now you are giving it all kinds of credit for being clever?

And, as has been said before, maybe if Scioli had any demonstrable talent to do something better, this would be okay. But, he does not have that talent .

Competent illustration does not over-shadow the writing, it serves the writing. Of course, in this case, the writing is also problematic.

Why waste time on this book when there is better stuff on the shelves?
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Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Postby JediTricks » Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:44 am

BWprowl wrote:
JediTricks wrote:this may be his lazy doodling but it's his lazy doodling that puts 30 unique characters and vehicles and settings into a single panel without fear while trying to pay homage to his and Barber's experiences with classic comics during childhood.

Hey, George Perez could do that and actually make it look good, but admittedly, not a lot of artists are George Perez.
I grew up on New Teen Titans, Perez can dump a lot of characters onto the page but not as much with objects.


Dom wrote:The only idea this book has is to show how shitty TF and Joe are.
You are such a child, it's doing nothing of the sort, there isn't remotely that implication, you are inferring something not intended and then blaming it for your hangup.

Or maybe he's just jacking off trying to abuse the pretenses of art, but I don't get that feeling, this may be his lazy doodling but it's his lazy doodling that puts 30 unique characters and vehicles and settings into a single panel without fear while trying to pay homage to his and Barber's experiences with classic comics during childhood.
You yourself called it hipster fodder a few months back, and now you are giving it all kinds of credit for being clever?
In what way are the things I cited contradictory?

And, as has been said before, maybe if Scioli had any demonstrable talent to do something better, this would be okay. But, he does not have that talent .
That is very meta. "It'd be acceptable if he weren't earnest, but since he's earnest it's garbage." So it's ok for talent to make lower-level quality because it's a STATEMENT? Scioli was raised somehow in the shadow of New Gods and thinks that's the ultimate, there's always someone going to be influenced by something the rest of us can't fathom, and his art skills aren't impressive for their quality, but they convey and they show that even if he does have limits to his ability to make it pretty he is still working despite that handicap.

Why waste time on this book when there is better stuff on the shelves?
Because not everybody has the same tastes as you.
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Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Postby Dominic » Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:42 pm

You are such a child, it's doing nothing of the sort, there isn't remotely that implication, you are inferring something not intended and then blaming it for your hangup.


You yourself said this sort of thing was a snide way for hipsters to celebrate what they do not like when this book was first announced.


That is very meta. "It'd be acceptable if he weren't earnest, but since he's earnest it's garbage." So it's ok for talent to make lower-level quality because it's a STATEMENT?


Yes, it would be more acceptable if Scioli had talent and were saying something rather than just being unable to write or draw well.


his art skills aren't impressive for their quality, but they convey and they show that even if he does have limits to his ability to make it pretty he is still working despite that handicap.


Sciloi's style is bastardization of something from 4 decades ago. He had not grown as an artist or a writer.

His skills are not impressive. Working despite "that handicap" is not praiseworthy. It just means he lacks talent or the ability to cultivate talent. And, that lack of talent shows in his work.
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Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Postby JediTricks » Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:38 pm

Dominic wrote:
The only idea this book has is to show how shitty TF and Joe are.
You are such a child, it's doing nothing of the sort, there isn't remotely that implication, you are inferring something not intended and then blaming it for your hangup.
You yourself said this sort of thing was a snide way for hipsters to celebrate what they do not like when this book was first announced.
I said this book is being marketed to the indie crowd because it's hipster, but I didn't say they were highlighting how shitty they thought the the brands are, that was something you added to the mix. The hipster element is using semi-classic licenses in a way that's a throwback, it's hipster to call back to 1970s comicdom and to 1980s marketing, but it's playing relatively straight with the licenses.

Yes, it would be more acceptable if Scioli had talent and were saying something rather than just being unable to write or draw well.
That is a flawed, elitist way of looking at it. That's putting something that looks like a child's drawing on a brick wall in a gallery and sticking a name on it - either the art does its own lifting or GTFO.

I think Kirby's art is highly overrated nowadays, it's all elevated to "nectar of the gods" status despite a lot of it being pretty sloppy, especially that New Gods stuff which is now being treated as found treasures - I'm not trying to knock Kirby, he did great work but only within the limitations of the medium such as printing and timing, the guy had to crank out hundreds of pages a month. I don't accept the artificial inflation on Kirby nor do I accept this meta sliding scale working against Scioli.

his art skills aren't impressive for their quality, but they convey and they show that even if he does have limits to his ability to make it pretty he is still working despite that handicap.
Sciloi's style is bastardization of something from 4 decades ago. He had not grown as an artist or a writer.

His skills are not impressive. Working despite "that handicap" is not praiseworthy. It just means he lacks talent or the ability to cultivate talent. And, that lack of talent shows in his work.
First off, "grown as an artist"? This is I believe his first major label series, and he's got a whopping 3 issues printed. Second, art is an evolutionary medium, styles borrow from styles, he's just doing it loudly and obnoxiously. And third, what gives you the right to say that there's not skill or talent going on here? He's consistent as fuck on this book, that's already better than expected, and he hasn't blown a deadline yet - that's skill and talent, no matter whether your SUBJECTIVE TASTE doesn't approve of the content being produced.
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Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Postby Dominic » Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:45 am

That is a flawed, elitist way of looking at it. That's putting something that looks like a child's drawing on a brick wall in a gallery and sticking a name on it - either the art does its own lifting or GTFO.


Well, the art sucks and the writing sucks. This book needs to go away.



I think Kirby's art is highly overrated nowadays, it's all elevated to "nectar of the gods" status despite a lot of it being pretty sloppy, especially that New Gods stuff which is now being treated as found treasures - I'm not trying to knock Kirby, he did great work but only within the limitations of the medium such as printing and timing, the guy had to crank out hundreds of pages a month. I don't accept the artificial inflation on Kirby nor do I accept this meta sliding scale working against Scioli.


Kirby was a design guy who broke the industry's habit towards overly simplified designs. He was a middling (at best) artist and wholly un-qualified to write.

Scioli is a knock-off (at best) of Kirby.


First off, "grown as an artist"? This is I believe his first major label series, and he's got a whopping 3 issues printed. Second, art is an evolutionary medium, styles borrow from styles, he's just doing it loudly and obnoxiously.


He had at least one book before this (I think it was published through Image) and plenty of web comic experience. He has not improved.


And third, what gives you the right to say that there's not skill or talent going on here?


He produces low-grade genre riffs and parodies, nothing else.


I said this book is being marketed to the indie crowd because it's hipster, but I didn't say they were highlighting how shitty they thought the the brands are, that was something you added to the mix


Go look at your early comments on this book.

You called it out for highlighting how shitty the brands are. You called the art out for sucking. And, now you are praising it.
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Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Postby Dominic » Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:46 am

JediTricks wrote:5 preview pages of FCBD issue

http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-new ... ew-179279/

Oh, what an epic shame. This is not only intentional fan art, which is to say, intentionally '80s-awful, but it's also repugnant writing. It is the definition of wrong-headedness, how IDW agreed to publish this train wreck is discomforting, and how these panels are supposed to entice readers to jump onto this line is beyond me. I know IDW made hay out of the retro-comic thing with ReG1, but that's a totally different ball of wax. This is just wrong on so many sides.

If this is just a gag, then they have lost the battle by not informing their audience as such, since knowing is half the battle.


The first of more than one post by you along these lines.
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