TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Ancillary, non-main-line stuff. Star Wars TF, Speed Stars, Titanium Series, Robot Heroes, that sort of thing. They're kinda neat, but we all know they're not really that important. Admit it, you know it's true.

Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Postby BWprowl » Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:57 am

Given that the art and dialogue themselves are intentionally of a lower quality (with even the paper it's printed on mimicking a lower-quality paper), does it not make sense for the layouts and editing to be similarly faux-bad? In the case of the overly-large word balloon covering up the other guy's dialogue: Scioli had to draw that. He had to specifically draw one word balloon, then draw another, larger word balloon over it and the dialogue he already wrote and allotted space for. He specifically drew that word balloon 'too big' so it would cover up the other dialogue. As you said, if he had just drawn it smaller, it wouldn't have covered it up, but he didn't, he specifically did it this way.

Yes, editing fuck-ups do happen from time to time (I still chuckle at Batwoman and Batman getting their balloons switched in that issue of "Batman & Robin"). But given the 'pedigree' of the creator on this book, and the effect it's going for, and the sheer magnitude of what's wrong with what you're seeing, I have no problem believing it was an intentional decision.
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Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Postby Shockwave » Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:25 pm

I guess, but that just makes it so much worse on so many levels. On the one hand, it's like Scioli is saying "Even I don't give a fuck what I've written." and also flipping a giant middle finger to readers. I mean, he had a chance to raise himself to the level of a legitimate comic book writer and artist and instead he decided to take something that could have been good and used it to make fun of and insult comics, artists, writers and readers and the industry as a whole. On the face of it, there's nothing wrong with using a comic to comment on the industry, Morrison does it sometimes, but the difference is that Scioli has never demonstrated any real talent and as such comes off as a whiny fuckwit bitching because he's never received any recognition for "work" that really isn't worthy of recognition in the first place.

Oh and the back of the books has interviews with Scioli and Barber. I could not read these. I got two comments into it and realized that it's not really an interview but an excuse for Scioli and Barber to rant and rave about how great Scioli is. Fuck that. He's not great, he's bad and he should feel bad and IDW should feel bad for hiring him.
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Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Postby JediTricks » Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:03 pm

Finally got around to reading issue 2, the one Barber told me personally to wait for. While it does have more Transformers, and it does have more ideas, this issue is also not as driven as intended. There's not much death, just {SPOILER - Mouse-over to read:}Scourgewhich Barber points out is unintentionally tragically hilarious since {SPOILER - Mouse-over to read:}Scourgehas been dead in the other TF books since he came on board, so it's not hardcore. The action's scope is quite a bit smaller which kills the compression that had been in this series' favor up until now. And there's less POV-switching, which feels far too linear for a book like this. There's one big art misfire that I didn't understand until I got to the commentary: Trypticon and Devastator are shown the same size, but that's intentional because Dev is flying closer to the "camera", except there's no flight pose or flight lines or blurring or anything to sell that Dev is flying, and since this series is inconsistent with shadows anyway, the lack of one doesn't sell that at all. The rest sells for what it is, and King Kirby's name is once again brought up in the commentary because Scioli is trying so hard to be something else and Barber is his enabler.

The story puts Joe boots on the ground, but doesn't feel as grand as the first 2 issues in that respect, it didn't feel alien and large enough. The Autobots are totally subjugated by the Decepticons ever since Optimus was defeated by Megatron off-planet and has been missing, and live under curfew. There are a lot of wacky ideas, some are fan-wank and tons of goofy nods and some are Scioli just jacking off, but it's still surprisingly readable for hipster nonsense, it's just not as fascinating art as the first 2 issues.

Shockwave wrote:I get that the art "style" is on purpose, but having said art actually cover up dialogue? I have a hard time believing that's intentional. Especially since It didn't seem to happen in the second issue (yes, I forced myself to trudge through it).
If you had read the commentary, you would have seen that indeed it was intentional. And with as many fucking words are crammed into this series, I highly doubt the egos on the writing staff (Scioli, Barber) would allow their precious words to get lost by accident.

And this is hardly Scioli trying to flip us the bird, it's meant to be a stylistic homage while staying as hardcore as his dreams will allow. That's not speculation, he and Barber discuss this in the commentary section of each issue, they think this will be embraceable.

So, did they give you your money back?
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Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Postby Dominic » Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:30 am

the one Barber told me personally to wait for.


Issue 2 was supposed to be the one that improved the series?

No. Just....no.


Why are you even buying this crap? (I bought the first issue because it was auto-added to my pull-file. I should have known that was going to happen and dropped it before it came out.)


Knowing this book exists, and that Barber is directly involved, diminishes my interest in TF comics as a whole.


And this is hardly Scioli trying to flip us the bird, it's meant to be a stylistic homage while staying as hardcore as his dreams will allow.


I take the style as a bird-flipping.
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Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Postby JediTricks » Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:18 pm

Dominic wrote:
the one Barber told me personally to wait for.
Issue 2 was supposed to be the one that improved the series?

No. Just....no.
That's what the man told me. I suspect he misunderstood my complaints as merely not having enough Transformers, rather than having serious barriers to storytelling coming from the impetus of style over substance. Issue 2 definitely didn't endear me to the series though.

Why are you even buying this crap? (I bought the first issue because it was auto-added to my pull-file. I should have known that was going to happen and dropped it before it came out.)
Because I'm not a closed-minded person, because I was able to get beyond the overstylization to actually find some redeeming features about the first 2 issues, and enjoyed the compressed storytelling that just kept leading to bigger and bigger things.

Knowing this book exists, and that Barber is directly involved, diminishes my interest in TF comics as a whole.
That's the other reason, that rigid thinking is the sort of thing I want to avoid, I don't want to be a closed-minded, walled-garden fanboy who takes offense at anything remotely touching the things I like.
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Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Postby Dominic » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:00 am

Because I'm not a closed-minded person, because I was able to get beyond the overstylization to actually find some redeeming features about the first 2 issues, and enjoyed the compressed storytelling that just kept leading to bigger and bigger things.



But, it is not getting better. The art still sucks. The writing still sucks. Scioli sucks.


That's the other reason, that rigid thinking is the sort of thing I want to avoid, I don't want to be a closed-minded, walled-garden fanboy who takes offense at anything remotely touching the things I like.


The fanboy is going to buy it because it has Transformers in it.

The fact that Barber is on this book and he is writing one of the other TF books is what is putting me off. I think Barber and associate him with this garbage.
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Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Postby JediTricks » Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:53 am

Dominic wrote:
Because I'm not a closed-minded person, because I was able to get beyond the overstylization to actually find some redeeming features about the first 2 issues, and enjoyed the compressed storytelling that just kept leading to bigger and bigger things.
But, it is not getting better. The art still sucks. The writing still sucks. Scioli sucks.
You asked why I bought it, and how would I know if it's getting better or not if I don't give it chances? The art may be overly flawed and stylistically backwards-gazing, but it does convey what it intends to if you give it a chance. The writing doesn't "suck", it's fast-paced and has characters engaging with events, it just doesn't match your preference because it too is massively stylized.

That's the other reason, that rigid thinking is the sort of thing I want to avoid, I don't want to be a closed-minded, walled-garden fanboy who takes offense at anything remotely touching the things I like.
The fanboy is going to buy it because it has Transformers in it.
:roll:
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Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Postby andersonh1 » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:32 am

Dominic wrote:The fanboy is going to buy it because it has Transformers in it.


Not this Transformers fan, but then that's due to a lack of interest in GI Joe rather than being put off by the art. It's so deliberately patterned after early Marvel TF that it's an obvious homage, so that wouldn't put me off by itself.
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Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Postby BWprowl » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:41 am

andersonh1 wrote:Not this Transformers fan, but then that's due to a lack of interest in GI Joe rather than being put off by the art. It's so deliberately patterned after early Marvel TF that it's an obvious homage, so that wouldn't put me off by itself.

I'm not reading it either (not just because of a disinterest in GI Joe but also because the far-backwards-looking intent of the series is pretty much the opposite of what I want in TF stories), but I will point out that Re-Generation 1 nicely paid homage to Marvel G1's art without looking like a coloring book.
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Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Postby Shockwave » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:56 am

Not the Transfan either. Thing is, the art is actually worse than early Marvel. Heck, the art is worse than early... anything. Everything. It sucks. And even if the story gets better, 2 x 0 still = 0. I have yet to take them back, but the comic shop owner has said that I can return them. I'll take them back next time I go in. I would have taken them last time but it was an impromptu visit.
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