TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Ancillary, non-main-line stuff. Star Wars TF, Speed Stars, Titanium Series, Robot Heroes, that sort of thing. They're kinda neat, but we all know they're not really that important. Admit it, you know it's true.
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Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Post by Dominic »

The more I see, the less impressed I am.

Links to the interviews in question:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=51417

http://comicsalliance.com/tom-scioli-jo ... interview/

http://www.freecomicbookday.com/Home/1/ ... eID=143725


The question:
CBR News: John and Tom, aside from the obvious implications of the title, what exactly is "Transformers vs. G.I. Joe" all about?
The answer:
We're pretty close to figuring that out ourselves...
Translation: Duuuurrrururururururrrrrp.

We'll see the origins of our heroes; we'll see first meetings and secret pasts. This is the ground floor of an astounding new reality, here.
Yeah, it is another reset.

So far, the script for this first issue, which we're close to finishing, is the best thing I've ever worked on. I've spent more hours per page on this than anything I've done before, and the results are better than I could've imagined.
This is from the guy who releases story in one page chunks? Wow, we must be working with multiples of 1/10 of an hour here. Amazing.

A preview page:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_ ... &oid=51417

Yay, retro-style shit!

(Seriously, "Robot Chicken" has more to say.)

Because there is not yet a definitive version of these characters (the way '60s Kirby comics are the definitive Marvel comics, the way the original "Star Wars" trilogy is definitive), I plan to make this the definitive version of both those universes. In my mind, at least.
Wow, when a writer is calling the the least articulate iterations of (Marvel) characters from 5 decades ago "definitive", there is a huge problem.

My god, Scioli sucks. (Plenty of jems from him in the interview actually.)


From Scioli:
Early drafts were extremely serious, hard sci-fi, with absurdist touches and pitch black dark humor. John's brought a little more of a sense of adventure and fun to it. We're folding all of that stuff together and hammering it into what feels like a real, breathing universe from which we can pluck any story we need.
Oh, yeah, based on Scioli's previous work, this is totally credible.


The CA interview:
CA: That’s something I wanted to bring up, too. The Free Comic Book Day book is always big for every publisher, it’s the book you want to put out into as many people’s hands as you can. I remember seeing a ton of kids come to the store on FCBD, and I am legitimately jealous of a kid who gets this as his first comic. I can only imagine how mind-blowing this book is going to be, which I think is going to replicate your experiences as fans. You’re going to blow minds the same way that your minds were blown.
Yeah, this book, with its backwards ass art style and writing is exactly what mainstream audiences want on FCBD. And, we all know that TF and Joe are exactly what the deconstuctionist Cambridge types love!


From the FCBD.com interview:
FCBD: Tell FCBD fans why they should pick your book first on Free Comic Book Day!

Tom: "It’s a complete mini-movie. It’s the guiding principle for the series, to make each issue a satisfying experience that the reader will cherish, re-read, and share with others. There’s human drama, grand spectacle, and things that can only happen in a comic book. It’s your chance to get in on the ground floor of a giant mega-epic we’re weaving out of a series of single-issue epics. It also happens to be the best single comic I’ve ever worked on. I put every ounce of my being into it. It’s my thesis on everything I learned from my decade-plus of making comics. You get a graphic novel’s worth of sci-fi action, adventure and heartbreak in a single issue."

John: "Well, that about covers it… I don’t even know what I could add there. Is this the absolute pinnacle of human achievement? Pick it up. You be the judge."
Yeah, a clearly sarcastic over-sell. Nothing says "good comics" like a clearly sarcastic over-sell!

Why in the hell is IDW marketing TF/Joe to the indie crowd? Seriously? What the fuck?



Another jem from FCBD:
FCBD: What other titles would you associated with your FCBD book? “If a comic reader likes _______ , they should pick up my title"?

Tom: "If you like superhero movies, the comics of Jack Kirby, Stan Lee, Frank Miller, Alan Moore, and Jim Steranko, Star Wars, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Dune, the eighties, the seventies, the sixties, NES games, and the films of Quentin Tarantino you should pick up TRANSFORMERS VS. G.I. JOE. To name a few specific titles: Batman Year One, Ronin, The Avengers, New Gods, Fantastic Four, Judge Dredd, The Forever People, Prophet, Cannon, RASL, The Spirit, Spacehawk, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Lone Wolf and Cub, The Micronauts, Sgt. Fury and the Howling Commandos, The Dark Knight Returns, Captain America, Dune, Nick Fury and the Agents of Shield, Nextwave, Hawkeye, Daredevil, Sin City."

John: "I think that might be everything I like, there, Tom. I think if you’re loving comics like Hawkeye, Black Science, Pretty Deadly, Prophet, Glory—the comics with unique individual voices that are having a renaissance in the comics mainstream, check this out. And if you love any of Tom’s comics like American Barbarian or Godland or Final Frontier, if you love G.I. JOE and TRANSFORMERS comics from the past or the present, this is a comic for you."
Those are the most incoherent lists of junk I have every seen. (There is good stuff on the lists. But, there is no reason or explanation for how it is relevant.) I love how they jump from specific stories like "Lone Wolf and Cub" to general stuff like "Captain America" (which has been around for decades under a dozen or so writers). Oh, and "Prophet" (a Liefeld book?) makes the cut.


I no longer make the long-runs on FCBD. I hit one, maybe two, stores.

If the local shop only allows for one free book, I dunno that I will bother with this one. (Avatar is releasing an "Uber" special with new content. I dislike new-content books on FCBD. But, I am not going to pass up new content for a *good* book for the sake of getting junk.
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Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Post by JediTricks »

Dominic wrote:It looks and reads like an in-house "Mad Magazine" style parody of a style that existed 30 years ago.
That is exactly what it is! Thank you, I couldn't put my finger on it before, but that's what it looks like, not an homage, a parody. And it's a parody on both sides of the coin, writing and art.
Here is some (not safe for work) "Satan's Soldier". The comments are also worth reading.

http://www.ambarb.com/?p=775
http://www.ambarb.com/?p=798
I was expecting something more outrageous, this was not much at best.

If this were just an issue of artistic quality, I might have to ask "why are we so focused on art quality if it tells the story? Are we comic art snobs?" but the truth is that there's more to it than just art at this point.
The more I see, the less impressed I am.

Links to the interviews in question:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=51417

http://comicsalliance.com/tom-scioli-jo ... interview/

http://www.freecomicbookday.com/Home/1/ ... eID=143725
Not me, my interest bottomed out with the first FCBD images and these have only kept it steadily dead.
The question:
CBR News: John and Tom, aside from the obvious implications of the title, what exactly is "Transformers vs. G.I. Joe" all about?
The answer:
We're pretty close to figuring that out ourselves...
Translation: Duuuurrrururururururrrrrp.
Actually, I think the translation is: "we're trying to be hip, no matter the cost, no matter the lack of sense."
We'll see the origins of our heroes; we'll see first meetings and secret pasts. This is the ground floor of an astounding new reality, here.
Yeah, it is another reset.
You'd prefer this mess in an existing continuity???
So far, the script for this first issue, which we're close to finishing, is the best thing I've ever worked on. I've spent more hours per page on this than anything I've done before, and the results are better than I could've imagined.
This is from the guy who releases story in one page chunks? Wow, we must be working with multiples of 1/10 of an hour here. Amazing.

A preview page:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_ ... &oid=51417

Yay, retro-style shit!

(Seriously, "Robot Chicken" has more to say.)
Yeesh, that's really bad. That coupled with his comments about Hama not having a Hama to look to and Kirby not having a Kirby to look to suggests that this guy can only look backwards, can only regurgitate what has come before. He can take the toys and put them in new scenarios and mash them together, but they always have to be based on something else for him.
My god, Scioli sucks. (Plenty of jems from him in the interview actually.)
Truly outrageous. Truly. Truly. Truly.
FCBD: Tell FCBD fans why they should pick your book first on Free Comic Book Day!

Tom: "It’s a complete mini-movie. It’s the guiding principle for the series, to make each issue a satisfying experience that the reader will cherish, re-read, and share with others. There’s human drama, grand spectacle, and things that can only happen in a comic book. It’s your chance to get in on the ground floor of a giant mega-epic we’re weaving out of a series of single-issue epics. It also happens to be the best single comic I’ve ever worked on. I put every ounce of my being into it. It’s my thesis on everything I learned from my decade-plus of making comics. You get a graphic novel’s worth of sci-fi action, adventure and heartbreak in a single issue."

John: "Well, that about covers it… I don’t even know what I could add there. Is this the absolute pinnacle of human achievement? Pick it up. You be the judge."
Yeah, a clearly sarcastic over-sell. Nothing says "good comics" like a clearly sarcastic over-sell!

Why in the hell is IDW marketing TF/Joe to the indie crowd? Seriously? What the fuck?
Why market to the indie crowd with an oversell? Because this is hipster junk, this is a brand new pair of corduroy pants with packaging throwback text. This is a pair of thick-rimmed glasses that are horribly out of vogue. This is some simplistic trinket that is meant to feel like something nobody would want but has intrinsic value beyond its failings that causes it to be lauded by those who want to deconstruct a medium without any effort. This is for lazy-minded PBR-guzzlers who define themselves by what they hate and can laugh at rather than by what they like.
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Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Post by Dominic »

Gotta love how this thread is turning in to JT and I arguing about how the book sucks, while agreeing that it sucks. :lol:

PBR-guzzlers
PBR?


If this were just an issue of artistic quality, I might have to ask "why are we so focused on art quality if it tells the story? Are we comic art snobs?" but the truth is that there's more to it than just art at this point.
I will call out style because I expect craft and skill. Scioli's work is just....crude on every level. He has nothing to say, and he cannot even make that nothing interesting. ("Earth 2" is not the most articulate book. But, the first year and a half were readable. And, the art is still pretty to look at even if the book is not living up to its promise.)

You'd prefer this mess in an existing continuity???
Ah, no. You misunderstand.

I was calling out Barber's comments for being an over-sell of "another divergent setting".

Even more to the point, it was Barber trying not to say "we really do not have anything significant to say about this book because the book has nothing significant to say".

He can take the toys and put them in new scenarios and mash them together, but they always have to be based on something else for him.
This is a common problem though. So much stuff is derivative or assuming pre-established interest. "This story or type of story....but with licensed characters!"

Scioli has no business being in comics. He is playing at deconstructing the industry....and his points of reference are *decades* old. Hama's best work was 25+ years ago. Kirby's last guttering effort was nearly 40 years ago.

We have gotten deconstructions and mature consideration of Superman from DC, never mind from other competent writers. What is Scioli's contribution?



The worst part is that this book could be so much. It could be....great.

McDonough made a respectable effort right before Dreamwave collapse in '04.

And, I cannot help but wonder what a guy like Kieron Gillen could do with TF or Joe (never mind both), simply by applying the themes and ideas he is using in "Uber" or "Iron Man".


But, no, we are getting this junk.
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Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Post by JediTricks »

Dominic wrote:
PBR-guzzlers
PBR?
Pabst Blue Ribbon, the hipster's beer of choice.
You'd prefer this mess in an existing continuity???
Ah, no. You misunderstand.

I was calling out Barber's comments for being an over-sell of "another divergent setting".

Even more to the point, it was Barber trying not to say "we really do not have anything significant to say about this book because the book has nothing significant to say".
That wasn't very clear. But it's better to make this mess its own continuity than sully another, waste of time or not.

The worst part is that this book could be so much. It could be....great.
It could be, and maybe even under Scioli it will be once it shakes out some bugs, but it's currently letting style choices stand LOUDLY in the way of any success.
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Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Post by Onslaught Six »

Wanna know the worst part of this trainwreck? This is IDW's ONLY GI Joe-related product during the summer. Full stop. Everything kind of died, and will continue to be dead, until the fall, for some reason.

I mean, shit, I know GI Joe in general is being mishandled like nothing I've ever seen before (and I know it isn't all Hasbro's fault, there's retailer bullshit and kid interest in there too) but to literally just stop the comic for six months for no real reason? That's bad. And IDW is usually immune to this kind of misstep.
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.
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Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Post by Shockwave »

Having finally clicked on the links to Scioli's art.... Shit, I could draw better than this! Seriously, how is this guy employed in the comics industry?
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Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Post by Tigermegatron »

I keep reading conflicting news reports. Initially it was billed as a limited series run. Fast Forward,now it's being billed as a On-going series. Which is it the former or the later?
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Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Post by Dominic »

Tiger, last I heard, the cross-over was billed as an on-going. Now, how long it can go on is another story.


That wasn't very clear. But it's better to make this mess its own continuity than sully another, waste of time or not.
IDW is launching yet another alternate timeline or whatever. And, they are over-selling it. And, they have nothing to say to justify yet another book with yet another setting. That is what I was mocking.

It could be, and maybe even under Scioli it will be once it shakes out some bugs, but it's currently letting style choices stand LOUDLY in the way of any success.
This book is so flawed at the conceptual level that it would need a completely different creative team and direction.

Wanna know the worst part of this trainwreck? This is IDW's ONLY GI Joe-related product during the summer. Full stop. Everything kind of died, and will continue to be dead, until the fall, for some reason.
You sure about that? I was under the impression that "A Real American Hero" was going to run uninterrupted.

IDW promised big things for "GI Joe" this year. Hopefully, they were not talking about the cross-over book.
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Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

Post by JediTricks »

This is their only GI Joe book? I accidentally typed GI Joke but I think at this point that's got to be it. That's terrible, this is no GI Joe book at all! This is a hate-fuck to GI Joe. I'd say Hasbro is rudderless, but I actually know the brand manager, I can only assume this decision was above him or they're secretly working on a successor to ARAH and this is the transition period.

Yeah Shock, I bet you could draw better. I have to assume this is IDW seeing it as a form of art somehow, like performance art but on the page.

TM, this was always billed as an ongoing. The first post in the thread says "Ryall called it an ongoing".
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Re: TF/Joe cross-over book announced

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You sure about that? I was under the impression that "A Real American Hero" was going to run uninterrupted.
Oh, and this. But the only people reading that are people stuck in 1987.
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.
People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
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