Armada Unicron

[Dominic]

-double post edit-

[Dominic]

The BW Neo comic in Japan used Unicron pretty effectively. (The show was awful.)

And, "Omega Point" was a good use of the character, giving both G1 and BW a kind of "Ragnarok" send-off. But, as said above, you can only do that so often.

Dom
-remembers when Nemesis Prime brought Unicron to "Alternators", and took away one of the few good things about the line.

[onslaught86]

I remain convinced that TFTM and the arc that concludes with Marvel G1 #75 are good use of Unicron. BWNeo and Armada had some inspired moments too. Omega Point I still cannot stand, it's one of Furman's most overblown stories. Hooray, destroying entire solar systems! Who cares? I did like the idea of the dark essence, but oh-so-coincidentally having Unicron's power returning to the time of BW was just painful.

[Dominic]

Good catch with the old Marvel run. (I have no excuse for forgetting about it. It was good then. And, it largely holds up now.) The original movie was dreadful. I have a hard time saying it was a good use of any character, simply because it was such a bad movie to start with. (It is not even good as an extended episode of the cartoon. Bad writing and "would be good if not for the stupid mistakes" animation do not make for anything even remotely good.)

"Omega Point" explained Unicron being pulled back to the BW era as a result of the damage Megatron II caused to the time-line. Solar-destructive weapons are not unique to Furman. And, it was not presented as a "cataclysm of the week" (no pun intended) style event. The scale and magnitude of destroying a solar system was pretty clear in the story. More importantly, "Omega Point" did not read like it was an excuse for Furman to write the solar-destruction scene. Contrast this with much of say...the 2007 movie, which was little more than a string of explosions and idiotic comedy scenes spliced together, often from different and inconsistent takes.

Dom
cannot wait for Unicron to show up in "Shattered Glass".

[onslaught86]

Good catch with the old Marvel run. (I have no excuse for forgetting about it. It was good then. And, it largely holds up now.)

With the exception of the Neo-Knights, the scale issues, and the mass-teleportation, I thoroughly agree. The arc running through #75 is worlds better than TFTM. Of course, it came out years later. I still enjoy TFTM with an even larger appreciation for campy, dated cartoons than that I approach G1 proper with. It's excellent fun to watch from time to time. Preferably with friends and alcohol.

"Omega Point" explained Unicron being pulled back to the BW era as a result of the damage Megatron II caused to the time-line.

A poor pretense to feature current (At the time) media.

Solar-destructive weapons are not unique to Furman.

But they are in TF. Their being used elsewhere does not excuse their use here. Had Furman destroyed a single planet or killed a platoon of soldiers, it would've made no difference. The purpose of the destruction is to show how UltraTurboMegaPowerful the Bad Guys are. He usually and frequently accomplishes this by offing a random redshirt, I felt the solar system verged on self-parody.

Oh, I can see it now. GRIMLOCK fights a time-travelling BLUDGEON who has gained the ability to DESTROY MULTIPLE UNIVERSES. And Prime angsts! Epic.

"Omega Point" did not read like it was an excuse for Furman to write the solar-destruction scene.

That, Dom, is exactly my point. The solar-destruction scene is not remotely important to the overall story, it's just utterly uncessary and over the top. Were it done with tongue firmly in cheek, ala Hitchhiker's Guide and 2000AD (Is there something about the British and large-scale destruction?), I'd laugh and approve. Because it's done as a sort of sideline attempt at characterisation, and it's at a ridiculous scale while having no bearing on the overall story, it really irks me.

Contrast this with much of say...the 2007 movie, which was little more than a string of explosions and idiotic comedy scenes spliced together, often from different and inconsistent takes.

Yes. Those were enjoyable, and arguably worth stringing together some kind of story for. Omega Point's galactic peril wasn't even the point of the story.

[Dominic]

I am probably more forgiving of "Omega Point" than I should be as it came out before nearly all of Furman's work, (TF and otherwise), was overly-derivative and more noise than signal.


I did not mind the Neo-Knights. I do not think that all comics need to have super-types, but a title that featured Target-, Power- and Headmasters could logically incorporate them.


Dom

[Dominic]

I am probably more forgiving of "Omega Point" than I should be as it came out before nearly all of Furman's work, (TF and otherwise), was overly-derivative and more noise than signal.


I did not mind the Neo-Knights. I do not think that all comics need to have super-types, but a title that featured Target-, Power- and Headmasters could logically incorporate them.


Dom

[JediTricks]

Look at the battle-field as a game board. (If you like child-development theory, think of the transactional model here.) Anything, including other combatants, are factors in a battle. Some factors are more important than others. But, if it is a factor on the field, it is a variable in the fight.

Fine, it's a chessboard and it's down to king against king. Happy? No? Then stop using inaccurate analogies. This isn't a strategy game, this isn't about armies versus armies, it's about 2 entities fighting each other, not their minions.

If you have an army that includes hot-headed twerps who rush head-long into danger, that a is a factor. If your enemy has those twerps, that is also a factor. The ability to make use of that is also a factor. Megatron was willing/able to use that to his advantage. Prime was neither.

Prime was about to close Megatron out when stupid Hot Rod got in the way, it didn't fit anything, the scene doesn't even make sense. Prime drops the hammer on half a dozen Decepticon heavies by himself and he has to rush from the shuttle to do it. Kup's there and watches. Megs goes for a hidden pistol, and somehow out of NOWHERE comes Hot Rod who sees this and, even though Prime has a clear shot, inserts himself into the mix to grab the tiny pistol and instantly becomes a hostage. And if you want to take the location into account, Megatron's back is to the water, where does Hot Rod even come from? Literally from out of nowhere, they just paint a background into position instead of the wall that was there a second ago and have him run in from there. Why didn't Prime or Kup see him coming and wave him off? Because they needed this fakeass X-factor to come in and further the story.

[Onslaught Six]

Bitter over Rodimus, JT?

Hot Rod was 'already' on his way to the fight, remember? "Stay away, lad! That's Prime's battle!"

[Dominic]

I stand by the game analogy. Factors and variables on the "board" or battle-field matter. One of the chief assets a "player" can have is the ability and willingness to exploit said factors and variables. Hotrod, being on the field, was exploited by Megatron. Kudos to Megatron.


On another note, I will not be lured into a discussion of the many problems the old movie has. (Kudos to JT on this though, as I never noticed the inconsistent background on the scene in question.) Yes, Hotrod was written in to screw things up. But, in context, Megatron was smart enough to use Hotrod's stupidity to live-saving (or at least enemy-beating) advantage. Prime was unwilling to risk shooting Hotrod. Megatron's aggression and Prime's caution were both variables that tipped the fight in Megatron's favor.

In the physical contest, Prime won. But, like a real battle, (or simply a real battle plan), their fight was complicated by other guys on the field. Hotrod became part of the fight, and by doing so changed it enough for Megatron to pull a stalemate from the jaws of defeat.

Dom
-badabingbangboom.