thoughts on the Beast-era

"What? Transformers made from animals instead of vehicles and stuff? Doesn't sound so great, throw it to Kenner division, maybe they can make a quick buck or something."
Beast Wars, Machine Wars, Beast Machines... seeing a pattern? Coming soon: "Wars Wars"
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andersonh1
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Re: thoughts on the Beast-era

Post by andersonh1 »

Remember too that the moment Rattrap gets the weaponized mech suit, he tests the weapons and then tells Megatron "never trust a rat!" He would have taken him out then and there if Megatron hadn't talked his way out of it by using Rattrap's principles against him. And even then, if Cheetor hadn't shown up and started shouting "traitor!" Rattrap might still have gone through with it.
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Re: thoughts on the Beast-era

Post by SynjoDeonecros »

andersonh1 wrote:Remember too that the moment Rattrap gets the weaponized mech suit, he tests the weapons and then tells Megatron "never trust a rat!" He would have taken him out then and there if Megatron hadn't talked his way out of it by using Rattrap's principles against him. And even then, if Cheetor hadn't shown up and started shouting "traitor!" Rattrap might still have gone through with it.
...I'm not sure what you're arguing with this, but to me it says that Rattrap was just there to get more firepower; he didn't care about anything, at the moment, than compensating for the inadequacies that he found his robot mode to have. if I remember correctly, before this point in the story, not only was he unable to transform, but most if not all of the Maximals treated him like crap BECAUSE he couldn't transform, instead of trying to be sympathetic and encourage him to "find his balance"; the reactions you pointed out him having, in this episode, seems rather clear that, not only did he just want the weapons to compensate for his physical failings, but he was going to use it to not only finish Megs off, like he probably felt Optimus should've had, but also take down his "friends" for being assholes to him. Yeah, as I said, that's not him "adjusting to his situation", that's him being a puss and taking the cheap way out.

Oh, and it was Blackarachnia who called Rattrap a traitor, not Cheetor. Minor mistake, but it puts in a bit of irony of a traitor calling out a character who used to HATE traitors AS a traitor.
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andersonh1
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Re: thoughts on the Beast-era

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It was Blackarachnia, true. Either way, Rattrap's friends and allies turned on him and automatically assumed the worst.
if I remember correctly, before this point in the story, not only was he unable to transform, but most if not all of the Maximals treated him like crap BECAUSE he couldn't transform, instead of trying to be sympathetic and encourage him to "find his balance"
Rattrap actually figured out how to transform at the beginning of "The Weak Component", and rather than be congratulated for it by his friends, he was berated for screwing everything up. Nightscream talks about cutting him loose, and Blackarachnia talks about how useless he is in both modes. He's getting no support, and rather than go beg for it, Rattrap takes matters into his own hands.

Where I'm going with this is that Rattrap, rather than allow the others to cover for him, walked into the enemy's stronghold, negotiated a deal with him to get weapons, and then just about double-crossed him and turned those weapons back on him. That takes guts, even if Megatron was right that Rattrap only did it because he was desperate.
in this episode, seems rather clear that, not only did he just want the weapons to compensate for his physical failings, but he was going to use it to not only finish Megs off, like he probably felt Optimus should've had, but also take down his "friends" for being assholes to him.
No, he had no intention of "taking them down" until they attacked him.
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Re: thoughts on the Beast-era

Post by SynjoDeonecros »

*nods* That's true. I would think, though, that with the abuse he got, that episode, he'd at least want to scare his "friends" a little as payback for utterly thrashing him. At that point, I don't see him as considering EITHER side to be his friend, per se.
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Re: thoughts on the Beast-era

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Like I said--BM aired almost ten years ago now. I've had a long time to think up possible arguments for why Rattrap's characterization is in the right. Him being a coward is my preferred argument, but I've had people who somehow cannot accept that before, so I developed a second response.
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Re: thoughts on the Beast-era

Post by SynjoDeonecros »

Onslaught Six wrote:Like I said--BM aired almost ten years ago now. I've had a long time to think up possible arguments for why Rattrap's characterization is in the right. Him being a coward is my preferred argument, but I've had people who somehow cannot accept that before, so I developed a second response.
Well, no offense, but considering that the first argument completely contradicts his characterization in Beast Wars, and the second argument has virtually no evidence behind it aside from "he's a spy", I'm not surprised people don't accept either of them as being viable.
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andersonh1
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Re: thoughts on the Beast-era

Post by andersonh1 »

SynjoDeonecros wrote:*nods* That's true. I would think, though, that with the abuse he got, that episode, he'd at least want to scare his "friends" a little as payback for utterly thrashing him. At that point, I don't see him as considering EITHER side to be his friend, per se.
I think he had just intended to "show them up" as it were.

Rattrap: "Useless? Look at me, I just took out Megatron and won the war all by myself, with no help from any of you!"
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Re: thoughts on the Beast-era

Post by SynjoDeonecros »

andersonh1 wrote:
SynjoDeonecros wrote:*nods* That's true. I would think, though, that with the abuse he got, that episode, he'd at least want to scare his "friends" a little as payback for utterly thrashing him. At that point, I don't see him as considering EITHER side to be his friend, per se.
I think he had just intended to "show them up" as it were.

Rattrap: "Useless? Look at me, I just took out Megatron and won the war all by myself, with no help from any of you!"
It might've taken a little more than "showing them up" to get them to respect him, after what they did to him; I can't see them backing down and acquiescing to his greatness after the stunt he pulled. The only action I can remotely see as being plausible and accurate in this episode was the Maximals snapping at him for "betraying" them.
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Re: thoughts on the Beast-era

Post by Onslaught Six »

Whatever, mang. BM is still an allegory for Internet arguments, and you just proved my point. :mrgreen:
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.
People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
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SynjoDeonecros
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Re: thoughts on the Beast-era

Post by SynjoDeonecros »

Onslaught Six wrote:Whatever, mang. BM is still an allegory for Internet arguments, and you just proved my point. :mrgreen:
And yet, you proved my point about the preachiness of the series, as well. Huh.

I can see your point: trying to apply a philosophical debate or moral to an action show based on the classic conflict between good and evil does tend to force the two "sides" of the debate/conflict to be extremely self-righteous and narrow-minded in their positions; you can't be "right", after all, if you keep on acknowledging your opponent's points. The main problem with preachy, heavy-handed shows like Beast Machines and Captain Planet, instead of working the debate into the plot, they work the plot around the debate. I can't really explain it, all that well, beyond that; preachy shows focus too much on pushing the debate or moral onto the viewers and forcing the stories to revolve around them, while non-preachy shows, if they DO have debates and morals, use them as a supplement to the plot. It's the difference between watching an episode and sitting back to WONDER about who was right, in the conflict, and watching an episode, and being TOLD who's right in the conflict; well-done shows do the former, preachy shows do the latter.
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