Beast Wars - The Ascending trade paperback

[andersonh1]

But we've seen Maximals and Predacons with beast modes on primitive planets in three different series. I really don't want to read a new version of that same old story again without some interesting new reason that will compel me to do so. If they're just fighting over energon/anglomois/whatever, then why should I care? It's been done already.

You must have hated DW's run then.

No, because it was the first G1 comic in years, and tied into a pre-existing continuity.

And the UC. They were all rehashes of "Autobots and Decepticons fight over MacGuffin X". So why do Autobots and Decepticons get a free pass on that when Maximals and Predacons don't? It's a double standard.

The Unicron trilogy is not G1, so there's a little arguing of apples and oranges here. However, Armada offered something new with the mini-cons and all the issues that came along with that. Issues of self-determination for the mini-cons, and whether or not the Autobots were as guilty as the Decepticons of using them, even if the purpose was benevolent. That's a major change from the black and white morality of G1. Energon wasn't all that impressive as a follow-up, though the alliance between Earth and Cybertron had potential. And Cybertron was probably the weakest of the three in a fictional sense, but the toyline gave us a little bit of everything. Terrestrial vehicles, sci-fi vehicles, beasts and spacecraft.

So yes, we got some rehashing of old situations and characters, but we also got some new ideas and concepts which offered a fresh take on a familar conflict. And that's what I'd be looking for in any potential Beast Wars reboot as well.

I'll try this from another angle: G1 cartoon and comic were different, and it shouldn't matter when they were done. They each did something different with a particular set of characters in a particular setting, why can't that be applied to BW?

Because I think the Beast Wars concept as established has been mined pretty throughly by now. There aren't very many reasons why a shapeshifting alien robot from a distant planet would disguise themselves as an animal. There are very few situations in which that would make sense and where such a disguise would be applicable. Whereas with G1 there was more latitude to tell stories in different settings, given that the alt modes weren't restricted to one category.

The premise of Beast Wars was that the planet had too much energon, but organic "shells" if you will would provide protection. The alternate mode wasn't adopted for disguise from the locals (because there weren't any) or mobility or fighting ability as with G1, but for protection from the elements. That's a reason that's not easily transported into another scenario without straining credulity.

[andersonh1]

That's what I've been trying to say--I never said it had to be another War For The MacGuffin. It could be anything. Hell, here's one right now: Magmatron has one of the Maximal Elders assassinated by someone (I don't know, Insecticon or Injector) to advance his own position (because Pax Cybertronia would assume everybody is on the same political level) and by the second issue, the trail comes back to him. Mags flees across the universe and eventually hides out on a lush organic world. LioConvoy, chief commander of the interdimensional Maximal Police Force, is sent to find and capture him successfully.

Here's my problem with such a scenario. We've already got a fugitive from Cybertron who hid on a lush organic world, and his name is Megatron. He was pursued to that planet by Optimus Primal. Sure, Magmatron and LioConvoy might have different reasons for going there, and approach the situation once they arrive from a different angle, and if new characters alone are enough to seperate this story from what we've seen before then that would be fine. But what's really all that different or compelling about this scenario?

It's worth noting that even the tv show writers felt they had exhausted the Earth-based story ideas, and planned to move out into space had a fourth season gone ahead. There's only so much that can be done with Transformers disguised as animals stuck on a primitive planet before repetition sets in.

[Shockwave]

So yes, we got some rehashing of old situations and characters, but we also got some new ideas and concepts which offered a fresh take on a familar conflict. And that's what I'd be looking for in any potential Beast Wars reboot as well.

And that's what I was ultimately looking for with Ascending and Gathering and didn't get it. I would be looking for that in a BW reboot comic as well which would ultimately be up to the writing staff to step up to that standard. We have a difference of opinion, you think the concept has been thoroughly mined, I think we've barely scratched the surface of what could have been done with it.

[Dominic]

No, because it was the first G1 comic in years, and tied into a pre-existing continuity.

The Saracinni/Lee/McDonaugh/Patyck/Figueroa run did not tie in with any previous continuity. They used a few general things, but largely ignored existing context.


The beast modes as disguises did not work because the locals, (critters), saw through them. Those cheetas in the first episode easily recognized Cheetor.


At this point, I am thinking that "Beast Wars" is tainted enough that IDW would stay away from it. And, I am kind of okay with that.


Dom
-thinking of cleaning his room.

[andersonh1]

The Saracinni/Lee/McDonaugh/Patyck/Figueroa run did not tie in with any previous continuity. They used a few general things, but largely ignored existing context.

It didn't fit 100% with the tv series, but it was also clearly written initially to fit in and around the events of that show. The writers moved away from that as the various minis and the ongoing series went on, but the Sunbow cartoon was their jumping off point. "The War Within" even includes scenes from "More than Meets the Eye" in the form of the fight at Sherman Dam.

The beast modes as disguises did not work because the locals, (critters), saw through them. Those cheetas in the first episode easily recognized Cheetor.

Well, that and giant bugs aren't very convincing either, which is what tipped off Cheetor (no brain-trust, mind you) to Waspinator in about five seconds.

So yes, we got some rehashing of old situations and characters, but we also got some new ideas and concepts which offered a fresh take on a familar conflict. And that's what I'd be looking for in any potential Beast Wars reboot as well.

And that's what I was ultimately looking for with Ascending and Gathering and didn't get it. I would be looking for that in a BW reboot comic as well which would ultimately be up to the writing staff to step up to that standard. We have a difference of opinion, you think the concept has been thoroughly mined, I think we've barely scratched the surface of what could have been done with it.

I wasn't looking for that with "The Gathering" and "The Ascending". I was looking for what we got, which was a look back into the universe created by the Beast Wars tv show, which focused on Cybertron and the non-show characters. And I prefer that approach. I'm just saying that if we got a reboot, I'd wouldn't object but I'd want something completely different with some new ideas behind it. In other words, either expand on the existing continuity (my preference) or else go in an entirely new direction (my second choice).

[Sparky Prime]

The beast modes as disguises did not work because the locals, (critters), saw through them. Those cheetas in the first episode easily recognized Cheetor.

Actually, those cheetah's didn't react to Cheetor until after he spoke to them. It's possible, had he not talked, that he could have blended in with them. It's the beast modes of extinct or abnormally sized animals that wouldn't work well as disguises.

[Shockwave]

That is what we got... sort of. What we really got was a brief glimpse into the Cybertron of that universe before everyone magically packed up and shipped to Earth, but couldn't interact with anyone there at all. I guess I would have liked to have seen something that could have included all characters be they from the show or not. I dunno, the time travel phase shift nonsense just completely ruined it for me. I actually would have preferred that they had just time travelled and interacted with the show characters. Reading it just feels so forced and confined and limited that those limitations suffocated what they were trying to do with it and since we haven't gotten any BW comics since, I would say it suffocated it to death.

[Shockwave]

The beast modes as disguises did not work because the locals, (critters), saw through them. Those cheetas in the first episode easily recognized Cheetor.

Actually, those cheetah's didn't react to Cheetor until after he spoke to them. It's possible, had he not talked, that he could have blended in with them. It's the beast modes of extinct or abnormally sized animals that wouldn't work well as disguises.

And on top of that, Waspinator's size didn't tip off Cheetor until he saw the reactions of the other Cheetahs.

[BWprowl]

Okay, whatever, we just don't call it "Beast Wars" if that's really that big a deal to you guys. But how about some 'Transformers' stories set in that timeframe? Pax Cybertronia, Maximal Upgrade and all? Adventures with some of those guys out in other corners of the galaxy? That could be cool, right? Ive just been saying 'Beast Wars' because, fuck, that's the name of the series that we got that was set in this timeframe. You can call it Lionconvoy and his Amazing Friends for all I care, just give me something where guys like Skyshadow and Scourge and B'Boom and Wolfang get some decent characterization, and Optimus Prime and Jazz and Shockwave are all friggin' dead and no one mentions their popular asses anymore.

Eh, does anyone care enough about Energon to argue about it?

Aw nah you di'in't! *snap!* (For those who apparently were not aware of this fact, BWprowl is the biggest Energon fan of all time. Seriously, it's like, his second favorite TF series.)

[Onslaught Six]

Okay, whatever, we just don't call it "Beast Wars" if that's really that big a deal to you guys. But how about some 'Transformers' stories set in that timeframe? Pax Cybertronia, Maximal Upgrade and all? Adventures with some of those guys out in other corners of the galaxy? That could be cool, right? Ive just been saying 'Beast Wars' because, fuck, that's the name of the series that we got that was set in this timeframe. You can call it Lionconvoy and his Amazing Friends for all I care, just give me something where guys like Skyshadow and Scourge and B'Boom and Wolfang get some decent characterization, and Optimus Prime and Jazz and Shockwave are all friggin' dead and no one mentions their popular asses anymore.

Hey, Prime's out there somewhere. Bob 'n' Larry claim that after the war, he becomes a space explorer. So that very well may be him that's Munkytrukk in Transtech. (I'm pretty sure Megatron is supposed to be G1 Megs, too, especially given that the last time we saw him was in G2 where he was a green tank. Plus, I'm assuming he shows up with Shockwave and Immorticon as his generals. But that's making leaps and bounds.)