Beast Wars Omnibus

"What? Transformers made from animals instead of vehicles and stuff? Doesn't sound so great, throw it to Kenner division, maybe they can make a quick buck or something."
Beast Wars, Machine Wars, Beast Machines... seeing a pattern? Coming soon: "Wars Wars"

Re: Beast Wars Omnibus

Postby Onslaught Six » Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:16 am

http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/e/e6/BWprofile_Torca.jpg

What the hell are 'you' looking at? Because I see that, and I see a bunch of flabby non-skin that is definitely not what Torca's muscley toy looked like.

Or, hell, let's take another example. Polar Claw.
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Image:BWPolarClawJapan.jpg

That's apparently some Japanese art of Polar Claw that is so goddamn awesome that I dunno how I never knew about it before. While bits of it look more like a muscly robot with artificial fur detailing, it's a hell of a lot better than 'this mess.'
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Image:IDW_Polar_Claw.jpg

More proof: OH GOD JUST LOOK AT RHINOX.
http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/e/e3/Gathering_TPB.jpg

Don is overrated in general anyway, though. Guido Guidi and EJ Su are way better artists.
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.


People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
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Re: Beast Wars Omnibus

Postby BWprowl » Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:36 am

Beasts aside (that Rhinox would be hilarious if it weren't so frightening) I'm actually a pretty big fan of Don's artwork, and feel that Guidi is the overrated one. Although I'll concede that a lot of the hate I have for the Hearts of Steel artwork can be attributed to the colorists more than anything else.
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Re: Beast Wars Omnibus

Postby Onslaught Six » Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:39 am

The thing is, with me, I don't universally love or hate 'any' artist, really. Typically, I just see an awesome pic, and then see who it was by. A lot of the time, the more awesome ones are done by Guidi rather than anyone else. I mean, shit, this is probably one of the coolest Megatron pics ever. And his abdomen is done correctly! *Red* sides! Not-particularly-generic stomach details! Hooray!
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.


People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
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Re: Beast Wars Omnibus

Postby Sparky Prime » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:30 am

Onslaught Six wrote:Don is overrated in general anyway, though. Guido Guidi and EJ Su are way better artists.

Figueroa's art is more 'alive' to me. Guido Guidi and EJ Su are excellent artists but I prefer Don's style.
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Re: Beast Wars Omnibus

Postby Onslaught Six » Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:55 am

Way to dodge my point entirely and focus on the minor opinion note I posted at the end, instead of the root of the post, which is that Don Sucks At Drawing Animals. Go look at Torca and Rhinox there and don't come back until you can either admit they suck, or argue why they do not.
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.


People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
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Re: Beast Wars Omnibus

Postby Sparky Prime » Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:22 pm

Onslaught Six wrote:Way to dodge my point entirely and focus on the minor opinion note I posted at the end, instead of the root of the post, which is that Don Sucks At Drawing Animals.

I dodged it because it's a point I totally and utterly disagree with. Is he the bestest evar at drawing animals? No. Do they suck? IMO, they do not. They look like the animals they're supposed to and they look pretty good to me.

Go look at Torca and Rhinox there and don't come back until you can either admit they suck, or argue why they do not.

I'll take the latter, thank you very much.
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Re: Beast Wars Omnibus

Postby onslaught86 » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:01 pm

I like Figueroa's non-beast art, he's well suited to technical drawing and the boxy G1 style. Those who've spent a good while examining and comparing his art will note the way he uses softer facial textures to better convey emotion, which contrasts well with the purely mechanical nature of non-beast Transformers. Unfortunately, he extends this to the whole body with beast-era TF designs, resulting in a ropey, muscled figure instead of a robot with beast parts. Indeed, I like his cybertronian renditions of the beast-era TFs, those look great. Then animal parts come along, and they do not really look like animal parts. More importantly, they don't look like specific animal parts.

To be fair, artists that specialise in drawing robots are not likely to be as well suited to drawing animals. But James Raiz comes from a technical drawing background, and hot damn can he draw him some good beastformers.

Rather than just say "This sucks" and "This rules", here's a few specific examples.

This is Figueroa's Cybertronian Magmatron. Note that this works well. The large, undetailed smooth sections are highlighted through shadowing, and look smooth and metallic. There doesn't need to be any detail there because it's smooth robotic metal.

Now compare to This, a Figueroa drawing of Magmatron for the sourcebook. Here we have much less detail. Instead of smooth, shadowed metallic parts, we have vague muscle areas. Instead of the scales, bumps, and wrinkles you'd expect in a dinosaur's skin, it's just shaded, with the odd line to suggest muscle tone. The robot parts blend in, and the head on his shoulder looks pudgy. It's a good stance, a great pose, but it's let down through the shapes and the lines used to define them.

Now compare to This Magmatron vs. Grimlock cover by Nick Roche. Here there are bumps, wrinkles, and lines to suggest leathery skin, which ripples and does not sit the same way pure muscle does, nor does it have the same texture. It's obvious that these parts are different from the robobits, thanks to the angles and textures used - Mags' head and waist armour are all sharp and metallic, while his skin bulges in the right places. Grimlock looks a lot like the Jurassic Park depiction of a velociraptor.

Also, This cover by James Raiz, to show another style, since this isn't just Figueroa vs. Roche. I like to think the level of detail in this one speaks for itself, as Figueroa's group shots look cartoony and simplistic in comparison. Primal has some jagging around the edges to suggest gorilla hair, yet there's no visible difference between rhino skin, dinosaur skin, rat fur, tiger fur, and bird feathers outside of colour. Maybe he was shooting for an anime-influenced style, maybe he'd been watching too much BW2 (Wait, no, then he'd have said something about the storyline), but it's sure not a realistic aesthetic.

I dunno, maybe we all look for different things in our comic art. I just look at that Raiz cover and drool, while I can't help but pick holes in Figueroa's for not looking like the toys or the animals actually look. If the books had a different artist at their helm, I'd have enjoyed them more.
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Re: Beast Wars Omnibus

Postby Sparky Prime » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:19 pm

onslaught86 wrote:But James Raiz comes from a technical drawing background, and hot damn can he draw him some good beastformers.

Where as I've just never cared particularly for Raiz's style. I'm not a fan of the rivets and stuff he tends to put on his Transformers art.

I dunno, maybe we all look for different things in our comic art. I just look at that Raiz cover and drool, while I can't help but pick holes in Figueroa's for not looking like the toys or the animals actually look. If the books had a different artist at their helm, I'd have enjoyed them more.

I think that's the root of it. To me, Figueroa's art does look like how it should though. Granted, he probably could put in a bit more detail to his beast work to bring out certain organic qualities, but it still looks like the animal he's representing to me.
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Re: Beast Wars Omnibus

Postby Onslaught Six » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:44 pm

Just to add some more support, here's Roche drawing G1 Shockwave with scaly Dinobots around him:
http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/3/3b/Shockwaveg1idw.jpg
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.


People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
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Re: Beast Wars Omnibus

Postby Sparky Prime » Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:56 am

Onslaught Six wrote:Just to add some more support, here's Roche drawing G1 Shockwave with scaly Dinobots around him:

Yeah.... Still like Figueroa's Beast art. And Roche I've always felt has a bit more of a cartoony style, especially with robot mode.
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