Megatron Was Right...

"What? Transformers made from animals instead of vehicles and stuff? Doesn't sound so great, throw it to Kenner division, maybe they can make a quick buck or something."
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Re: Megatron Was Right...

Postby Mako Crab » Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:30 pm

One thing to remember too, is that just because a character in the show says something doesn't mean it's accurate. The Maximals kept talking about, "the organic core," of Cybertron, but nothing says the layer of goo they struck was the *actual* core. And since Cybertron is said to have once been a natural world, I figure it's okay to make a general comparison to Earth.

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Okay then. So I know that Cybertron's dimensions are different (the size of the planet always seems to be in dispute), but whatever. Now remember how Rattrap and Nightscream were working a hand-crank drill? Even if they were at the lowest point of Cybertron's crust layer, they'd still have the mantle and the inner core to go through before getting anywhere near the actual core. Not to mention the heat and pressure from digging that far down! If anything, it would seem to be more likely that they hit Cybertron's asthenosphere, which is a liquid layer directly under the lithosphere. That, or they haven't even made it through the crust yet and happened to strike a pocket of liquid goo. Or maybe they merely struck the surface of the natural world considering how much technology it had to be buried under.
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Re: Megatron Was Right...

Postby Sparky Prime » Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:04 pm

BWprowl wrote:See, in that continuity, I always went with the more ethereal interpretation that Primus sealed his "essence" into the asteroid, and turned it into a mechanical planet, as opposed to the planet itself actually *being* Primus.

I really don't see that it would really make a difference either way. Given Primus' "essence" has no physical form but inhabits Cybertron, one could consider Cybertron to be his physical body and as such is a part of Primus. Just as a Transformers spark inhabits a body.

BWprowl wrote:Hell, maybe the 'Asteroid' in question was actually the remains of an organic planet whose environment had long since collapsed. That would explain the fossils and the organic core, at least.

A distinct possibility I'll have to admit. Although that would suggest the organics had actually lost their battle long before the remains of the planet became Cybertron.
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Re: Megatron Was Right...

Postby Onslaught Six » Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:38 pm

You guys think about this crap too much.

BM wasn't about the goal, it was about the journey.
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.


People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
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Re: Megatron Was Right...

Postby Sparky Prime » Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:21 pm

Onslaught Six wrote:BM wasn't about the goal, it was about the journey.

"You've already made the choice. Now you have to understand it."

Besides, this discussion goes beyond BM given we're also talking about the continuity leading up to it.
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Re: Megatron Was Right...

Postby badwolf » Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:13 am

Onslaught Six wrote:You guys think about this crap too much.

BM wasn't about the goal, it was about the journey.


I've rather enjoyed seeing how this thread has gone actually.
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Re: Megatron Was Right...

Postby Dominic » Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:51 am

Mako Crab wrote:One thing to remember too, is that just because a character in the show says something doesn't mean it's accurate. The Maximals kept talking about, "the organic core," of Cybertron, but nothing says the layer of goo they struck was the *actual* core. And since Cybertron is said to have once been a natural world, I figure it's okay to make a general comparison to Earth.

Image

Okay then. So I know that Cybertron's dimensions are different (the size of the planet always seems to be in dispute), but whatever. Now remember how Rattrap and Nightscream were working a hand-crank drill? Even if they were at the lowest point of Cybertron's crust layer, they'd still have the mantle and the inner core to go through before getting anywhere near the actual core. Not to mention the heat and pressure from digging that far down! If anything, it would seem to be more likely that they hit Cybertron's asthenosphere, which is a liquid layer directly under the lithosphere. That, or they haven't even made it through the crust yet and happened to strike a pocket of liquid goo. Or maybe they merely struck the surface of the natural world considering how much technology it had to be buried under.


Digression?
Would there be heat in Cybertron's center though?

If the planet was dead long enough, the heat would eventually diminish. Any heat generated on the surface would likely go up to space, unless they Cybertronians found a way to maintain it. Of course, pressure would still be an issue.


I disagree with O6 about BMac being about the journey more than the destination. Most of the episodes moved the series forward and advanced the premise. And, it all came down to the end-game, twice. It was like watching a game of chess. You can appreciate how well a player used their piece, but in the end, the only thing that matters is knocking off your opponent's king.

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Re: Megatron Was Right...

Postby Onslaught Six » Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:20 am

Perhaps that's phrased wrong. What I'm really saying is that BM is/was about the actual battle between the two ideologies--to use your chess analogy, it's not so much about 'why' one side is against the other so much as the fact that they Are.

I don't think BM ever 'intended' to explain why the Oracle/the Allspark/Vector Sigma/Primus/etc. wanted the planet to become TO. It was very much about the debate itself.
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.


People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
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Re: Megatron Was Right...

Postby Dominic » Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:43 am

Ah, now I see. The reason for the fight was simply that the idealogies (technocratic totalitarianism v/s organic anarchy with awesome alliteration all around) cannot co-exist. But, the reason that one side's leader or the other took a given stance is not as important.

That, I can agree with.

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Re: Megatron Was Right...

Postby andersonh1 » Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:17 am

Onslaught Six wrote:Perhaps that's phrased wrong. What I'm really saying is that BM is/was about the actual battle between the two ideologies--to use your chess analogy, it's not so much about 'why' one side is against the other so much as the fact that they Are.

I don't think BM ever 'intended' to explain why the Oracle/the Allspark/Vector Sigma/Primus/etc. wanted the planet to become TO. It was very much about the debate itself.


But the show does explain it. If you follow the Oracle (and Primal's) statements, it can be surmised that the Oracle wants to restore the organic to Cybertron, because apparently it feels that the pendulum has swung too far in the direction of the technological. "Seek the balance" it tells Primal at one point, implying that the current state of the planet is not 'balanced'. As Primal later says, when he finally wakes up and abandons the fanatacism he had during the first season, the Oracle never intended organic to replace the technological, but that both co-exist.

Now, if you're saying that the show never explained why the planet became a mix of metal and grass at the end, with buildings that looked like giant shrubbery, then you have a point. It wasn't explained why we got that instead of, say, islands of modern technology surrounded by a sea of plant life. Why there was a blending of the two in both the Transformers and the planet is an unanswered question.

The motivation that's unclear is Megatron's. His hatred for organics is a character shift that comes out of left field, given that he never expressed any such feelings during the Beast Wars. Some support for his newfound fanatical hatred would have been helpful. If it was an effect of having G1 Megatron's spark in contact with his own for so long, then a line of dialogue to explain that would have been sufficient. But it's never explained, and the audience is just left to accept his motivation as a matter of fact.
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Re: Megatron Was Right...

Postby Onslaught Six » Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:06 pm

andersonh1 wrote:Now, if you're saying that the show never explained why the planet became a mix of metal and grass at the end, with buildings that looked like giant shrubbery, then you have a point. It wasn't explained why we got that instead of, say, islands of modern technology surrounded by a sea of plant life. Why there was a blending of the two in both the Transformers and the planet is an unanswered question.


Yes, precisely. We're never told *why* the Oracle feels that Cybertron has swung too far in the direction of technology--simply that it Has.

The motivation that's unclear is Megatron's. His hatred for organics is a character shift that comes out of left field, given that he never expressed any such feelings during the Beast Wars. Some support for his newfound fanatical hatred would have been helpful. If it was an effect of having G1 Megatron's spark in contact with his own for so long, then a line of dialogue to explain that would have been sufficient. But it's never explained, and the audience is just left to accept his motivation as a matter of fact.


Similar motivational things are present throughout BM. It's one of the series' biggest flaws. BM works so much better if you actually don't take BW into account. >.>
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.


People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
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